The American National Anthem

[Jim Craik]

Tom,

Please explain, you say in part: The Anthem and Flag are part of ones
"vigorous support for one's country"<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

So were you showing "vigorous" support for Mexico by flying their flag?


Additionally, you are yet to answer Graham's and my question about Grahams love for his country, now would be a good time.

 

[Jac Mac]

Jac Mac,

I know this can be tedious, but what would your reaction be to someone questioning your patriotism because you do not like an Anthem or Flag?

Jim, It would depend on the circumstances at the time, with respect to our NZ national anthem I admit to wishing that some people did not attempt to sing it because 'they' do such a poor rendition of the song, by the same token I will admit to getting a 'lump in my throat' when its done well by a person with a great voice, particularly the Maori version.

With regard to our national flag, no I dont think you need to change symbols for the sake of change, you refer to talk about changing the NZ flag, which I assume to perhaps removal of the union jack in the corner should NZ ever become a republic away from the commonwealth?, yes that could bring about a lot of discussion, Im old enough to have had grandparents who mentioned that had WW1 & 2 had different outcomes that the Union Jack could have been replaced by the rising sun or swastika- dont particularly like to think about how those outcomes or others that might have followed would have influenced our lives.

I have no problems should the maori for example wish to have their own flag's, I see that as no different to the Welsh, Scottish, Irish having their own. You guys in America have very diversified cultural groups as well, where is the problem with someone who has ancestors from europe, south america, wherever? displaying where they came from as long as its done in a non-confrontational manner, as long as we all abide by the old saying,- 'when in Rome, do as the Romans do'- and back it up with a bit of common sense by staying within your personal comfort zone.
One thing I have noticed is that where you get what I call condensed population groups the pressures of life give cause to ill feeling from group to group often for no real reason, but when you get out in the wild or nature that pressure tends to disappear. Sort of makes you wonder if our modern day societies of grouping together in huge citys etc is/was the right thing to do, look at a mob of animals grazing in a large paddock, happy & content, chuck a dog in amongst them & what do they do, cluster into a group, frightened and alert.................Do you live in town, possibly pressured by the immediate actions of those around you? ...or out in the country where you get a bit of time to think about stuff.. or more correctly develop an attitude where you dont jump to quick conclusions

 

[Tom P]

Tom,

Please explain, you say in part: The Anthem and Flag are part of ones
"vigorous support for one's country"<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

So were you showing "vigorous" support for Mexico by flying their flag?


Additionally, you are yet to answer Graham's and my question about Grahams love for his country, now would be a good time.

When someone wins a medal at the olympics and they are standing on the podium, after the recieve the medal, what happens?

 

[Jim Craik]

JacMac,

That makes a lot of sense, thanks.

I'm afraid that our Tom is of the "My Country right or wrong" school. He feels that our traditions are carved in stone and to even doubt them is un-American (except for that Women, Blacks and slave thing).

 

[Tom P]

When someone wins a medal at the olympics and they are standing on the podium, after the recieve the medal, what happens?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

So Jim, what happens?

 

[Jim Craik]

Let me guess, they immediately look down at the medal, then they turn to................... You, and you finally answer questions?

 

[Tom P]

Let me guess, you finally answer questions?

It's the same thing they do at baseball games, football games, hockey games, basketball game, and other sporting events. They play the National Anthem and salute the Flag in "vigorous support of our country".

 

[Nick]

I believe that the National Anthem and American Flag are part of ones
"vigorous support for one's country"

I have to assume from your posts you believe that a persons non vigourous support of their repective national anthem makes them unpatriotic.

So your definition would make William "Billy" Connolly, Jr CBE (Commander of the British Empire) unpatriotic.

The honour was awarded in the 2003 Queens Birthday Honours list, she must have missed his sketch.

 

[Jim Craik]

Nick,

That was a very funny clip, I'm glad to see that your Queen has a sense of humor!

 

[Tom P]

I have to assume from your posts you believe that a persons non vigourous support of their repective national anthem makes them unpatriotic.

So your definition would make William "Billy" Connolly, Jr CBE (Commander of the British Empire) unpatriotic.

The honour was awarded in the 2003 Queens Birthday Honours list, she must have missed his sketch.

I assume you don't have a clue!

 

[Tom P]

Nick,

That was a very funny clip, I'm glad to see that your Queen has a sense of humor!

In answer to your question, I looked a these post long before putting any posts up. I saw your posts and wondered if you would treat me any differently if you thought I was a minority. You did. That was the reason for the Mexican flag.

 

[Jim Craik]

So Tom,

Let me see if I understand what you are saying,

You decided to pretend that you were not a citizen of the US, and decided to fly the flag of another country, because you felt that you would be treated different?

You really feel that that sort of activity by someone who clames to be a blindly Patriotic American is OK? You then feel that you have the right to accuse me of hating America because I do not like a tune.


Did you eat a lot of paint when you were young?

 

[Tom P]

So Tom,

Let me see if I understand what you are saying,

You decided to pretend that you were not a citizen of the US, and decided to fly the flag of another country, because you felt that you would be treated different?

You really feel that that sort of activity by someone who clames to be a blindly Patriotic American is OK? You then feel that you have the right to accuse me of hating America because I do not like a tune.


Did you eat a lot of paint when you were young?

I decided to see if you would treat me differently as a minority, before I said anything that was in opposition to your views, you did treat me differently. An experiment, nothing else for you to read into it, you're a good little liberal, have fun Jimbo.

 

[Nick]

I assume you don't have a clue!

Have you been talking to my friends family and boss?.

Your right I don't have a clue why you assume that in this case, please can you enlighten me?

 

[Graham]

Tom,

Why do continue to dodge the question?

Am I unpatriotic because I'm not a fan of our national anthem?

Your attitude of "my way or the highway" is frankly flawed. There are a million ways to demonstrate patriotism, some can be oblique and some can be more obvious.

Patriotism is defined differently in different countries as well. You guys are overtly patriotic to a fault. Flags outside houses is considered almost de riguer in parts of your country. We are far less obvious than that.

To quote Morrissey:-

"I've been dreaming of a time when
To be English is not to be baneful
To be standing by the flag not feeling shameful, racist or partial"

You see Tom, patriotism is a double edged sword. Your personal version of patriotism is what gets you hated in parts of the world.

I don't see how Jim can be considered unpatriotic because he's not a fan of Star Spangled Banner either.

So, Tom, will you anwer the question now?

 

[Nick]

Why the British National Anthem is the best in the world when compared to versions from Australia New Zealand France and particulalry the USA.

May cause offense to those of a sensitive disposition.

YouTube - AL Murray National Anthems

 

[Keith]

Well, reading between the lines I think he is insulting our Great Nation by parodying our beloved anthem, and as for calling our American cousins a bunch of pouffs, and Australians thick to say nothing of taking the Lord's Name in Vain, well, I think he's gone too far.

Wouldn't want to drink in HIS pub... the Bigot.












































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[Graham]

Well, reading between the lines I think he is insulting our Great Nation by parodying our beloved anthem, and as for calling our American cousins a bunch of pouffs, and Australians thick to say nothing of taking the Lord's Name in Vain, well, I think he's gone too far.

Wouldn't want to drink in HIS pub... the Bigot.











































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Keith,

There was never, at any time, ever a point where I was going to take that seriously.... and then I saw the bottom of the post and chuckled

 

[Jim Craik]

Nick,

I love it!

 

[Nick]

Nick,

I love it!

Jim,

So do I and Billy's as well, but then I believe it is my patriotic duty as a British citizen to take the pea out of and upset as many other nations as possible, including our own of course.