zf gearbox question

[nigel]

hi just joined to ask about a box that in the for sale section,
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/garage-sale/36727-gearbox-sale-gt40-zf-5ds-25-type-0-a.html
looks to be in good condition,seen it on ebay at 5500 no reserve,whats people thoughts on it,good price???cant find another to get a price comparison...thanks...

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

What GT40 had inboard brakes? This is news to me. I think if I were going to spend that much money, I'd want to see it in person, find some other satisfied customers of the vendor, etc. It isn't a bargain, and it doesn't look all that good on the outside to me.

 

[Mike Drew]

This gearbox, in this configuration, was clearly being used in a car other than a GT40. It is apparently of the original type (informally called Dash-0 to differentiate it from the later Dash-1 and Dash-2 styles) used in the GT40s, and as such, has fairly high collector value to the owner of an original car. But from a practical perspective it's not a good candidate for much of anything. The design was greatly improved upon in the later variants (so much so that many GT40s vintage racing today use later gearboxes and the originals are on the shelf), and the parts supply for these Dash-0 gearboxes is not nearly as plentiful. The asking price might be reasonable for the owner of a genuine car looking for a genuine gearbox to then spend another 5000+ pounds on (rebuilding/restoring it), but otherwise? Keep shopping--better Dash-2 gearboxes are far more plentiful and far less expensive....

 

[MikeR]

I agree with Mike Drew.

However, this one was not for a GT40. I have documentation from ZF that gives production numbers for the -0s, -1s and early -2s. Only 252 units designated -0 were produced for the Ford GT40. (See attached PDF)

This input shaft on the pictured trans is longer than those used on the GT40. Also the rotors are modified rear Corvette C3 (1968 - 1982). They have a small drum inside to serve an emergency brake. I have used these same rotors. I think this trans was mated to a Chevy engine.

I have a -0 trans (serial 65 - an original GT40 unit) that had been modified for use on a Lola T70 Mk3 that had a Chevy small block engine. The input shaft was lengthened about one and one-quarter inches to accommodate a deeper flywheel, pressure plate and bell housing. (See attach photo)

I'm pretty familiar with -1 trans also. I purchased serial 1384 from Holman-Moody in 1973 - it had been used on an original GT40. It's input shaft is shorter that than shown in the picture.

Dr. Mike

 

[Paulus]

This ZF zero box is serial #260 which was used on a 1968 Formula 5000. 2 x pics attached of its setup in the actual car. I believe this was one of Graham McRae's F5000 chassis (McRae Cars Ltd of Poole UK) but the spelling of MAC on the chassis doesnt match his name exactly??

 

[Paulus]

Have just looked into this a bit deeper to try and find where it came from before MacRae used it for the F5000 in 1968

Firstly, thank you to MikeR for the pdf file. Very interesting document.

yesterday I would have agreed with MikeR that this couldnt have been from the GT40 batch because, as he rightly says, the production qty of the FAV zero boxes was only 230 whereas this has a 260 sequence number, so everything initially pointed at this being from the production run for the De Tomaso Mangusta which is the only other zero box production run (qty = 142) having a 4.22 ratio diff as box 260 has.

BUT when filing my papers away this morning I just happened to glance at the photo of the data plate from box 260 (attached) and noticed that the stock/batch number on the plate is 1031 000 002 which matches against the FAV production for the GT40's.

It does have a GT40 top plate so maybe the input shaft had been modified later?

Assuming the PDF file is correct then I can only assume that ZF started their sequencing at at least '30' (i.e. 30 + the 230 manufactured = 260, being the sequence on this box).

Paul Fleming is our main man who can hopefully shed some light on this side of things as he has seen a few!!

 

[PF]

My guess would be that this is a box that was probably destined for the GT70 programme, which didn't really get beyond the prototype stage. I have been told that there were quite a few unused transaxles left after the project was stopped. The highest number type 0 box that I have seen is 252, the earliest being No. 1. It is worth remembering that many other race teams also used the type 0 box during this period. It was used by Mclaren, and also in the Cooper Maserati F1 car. Presumably these teams would have had spare boxes at the time, which may well have not been used, as they were short lived projects. The discs fitted to this box have obviously been fitted on adaptors and are not period at all. The original output shafts are clearly visable and are for the hooks type driveshafts, which can be seen fitted to the cars in the pictures.

 

[Pete]

Hello Paulus...the photos of the gearbox #260 and F5000 are items that I bought last year along with a truck load of parts, and got totally screwed on the purchase. It was listed on Craigs List. Can I ask you where you got those photos from?