1981 Porsche 917!

[John Milmont]

I was reading though some history about the 917 and found a little tid-bit about it being entered in the 1981 le mans series, over 10 years after the car was retired form can-am. I have to say, the car looks pretty neat. Look’s like they took a short tail design and added a wing and along with fairings to enclose the rear of the car. It also said that Kremer built this car 'new' using plans form the original cars.
The article went on to say that it was very competitive, but didn’t win anything. It also said the car retired out due to mechanical failure.

 

[Marcus]

Hi John,

the car was build by the Cologne-based Kremer brothers, who had already won Le Mans in 1979 with their Porsche 935 K3 in the hands of Klaus Ludwig and the Whittington brothers.

It was build with 917 spare parts provided by the factory, the bodywork was their own development. They ran it at Brands Hatch and Le Mans, on the latter race being driven by Bob Wollek, Xavier Lepeyre and Guy Chasseuil.
It ended as a DNF after 82 laps on the 8th hour.
According to Wollek, the car was a real pig to drive and he hated it.
Car is now in collectors hands.

Best,
Marcus

 

[OhioMark]

If I remember correctly, part of the problem was the large rear wing
created too much drag for the downforce it provided. The 69'-71'
917's didn't have wings nearly that size etc....Thanks for the photo's.


Mark

 

[John Milmont]

I like that front lip they got going on there. But it does look like the car was unbalanced aerodynamically with too much downforce on the rear.

 

[Paolo-LoveGT40 Modelworks]

hehe,I've never seen such 917 "hybrid" version...seems something really between 2 different ages.
Unfortunately the following one (should be 1982) was one of the faster ones ever build...

..and from some point of view they are also similar, but probably just in external shape

Paolo

 

[John Milmont]

Both cars had tube chassis, no? I'm sure that the lessons learned on the 917, especially with the turbo can-am models, were applied to the 956. There were so many developments in aerodynamics at that point as well.

 

[John Milmont]

found this just now.. pretty neat:
"The regulations stated that the section of the bottom right behind the front suspension was completely flat, to prevent that the cars would have extreme ground effects bottoms. Porsche fitted the 956 with large venturis, starting right behind the mandatory flat section, making it the first the ground-effects Porsche. Because of its width, a flat engine is not ideally suited for ground-effects, but this was somewhat fixed by tilting the engine upwards. Combining the ground-effects bottom with a simple but effective body, the 956 generated over 3 times more downforce than the 917."

Porsche 956 - Ultimatecarpage.com - Images, Specifications and Information

 

[Paolo-LoveGT40 Modelworks]

I dunno if 956 was tubolar...had to check soemthing on my models (the only sources I have to look at such cars..eheh).
At least the 962 /Dauer ones seems more semi monocoque ones (this looking at the internal part forward the cockpit).
Maybe the 956 was different..I dunno

 

[Thierry B]

both cars 956 and 962 where monocoque tube.
on the 962, the front wheel are 14cm forward due to regulation
(the driver feets must be behind the front axe wheel)

As i know on the 1981 917K of the Kremer brothers, there was many problems.
- aerodynamics (no wind tunnel, only free testing.....)
- spare parts (not enough to make real testing before le mans 24)
- tires (10 years of progress....the chassis is not adapted for....)

 

[Tim Marshall]

The Kremers discovered that 10 years in motor racing is a lifetime---there was no way they could make that car competitive.

 

[Johan]

The front half of a 956/962 is a monocoque and the rear half is a space frame engine mount with the rear suspension being attached more or less to the transaxle.
A 962 chassis is not flat-bottomed in the front, it is cupped to create suction between the front wheels and then of course there are the tunnels.

 

[EGLITOM]

Johan
more pics .-))
TOM

 

[Johan]

Your wish is my command...
In no particular order :

 

[Chris Kouba]

The Kremers discovered that 10 years in motor racing is a lifetime---there was no way they could make that car competitive.

One of the things I like the most about the 956/962 is its adaptability throughout its life, which speaks volumes about those who were behind it:

1982 Le Mans winner:

1994 Le Mans winner:

Granted the rules changed and so it might not be apples to apples, but it is probably similar to the scenario the Kremer's saw in 1981. Specifically for Dauer, I think it was their fuel tank which was allowed to be larger and therefor fewer stops for refueling. It's still impressive that the 962 was the package to cover the most distance over the course of 24 hours.

And then in 96 and 97, entered as a backup for the factory GT1's, the rear half of a 962 coupled to a group C Jag mono won again in the new open-topped LMP class:

15 years and still a winner. To me they are the the equivalent of the GT40's for my generation- 9 Le Mans victories (with the TWR spyders added in), including 6 in a row.

Also attached are two pics of the underside of a 1:18 scale die cast model, which I believe to reasonably accurate. The first shows the cupped section Johan refers to and the other shows almost the full undertray.

 

[Johan]

This might not be scientific but I can get better lap times on my xbox 360 with the 962 than with any other car.