363ci V8 Starting Issues

After years of sorting through my quad Weber 48IDA setup, it is finally running well (as good as it's going to get considering the set up -- huge thanks, Mike Pierce!!).

Now the only nagging issue remaining is the cold start. When I come to start it after it has been sitting a while, I will more often than not just get a "click" from the starter solenoid and no turn over. Wait a while, try again, "click". Then randomly, will turn over but not start. Repeat 20-30 more times, wait 15 minutes to half an hour later, it starts. I've tried priming more, priming less, flooding, waiting to unflood, you name it.

Then it occured to me that since the carburetors are so well tuned, this could be unrelated to fuel. My battery is 1000CA 800CCA a red top Optima that lives on a CTEK charger and is brand new. So today I stuck a voltmeter on it and saw that it reads 12.6 V with the key on and as soon as I start cranking, it drops to about 11.1 11.2. I'm running an MSD 6AL digital ignition box and I'm wondering if this is below the trigger value and I'm not getting any spark. During those 20 or 30 cycles that it usually takes to start it, I'm not even feeling it start to catch so strongly suspect I'm getting no ignition. Waiting a while might be lettng the battery recover enough to light it off (but doesn't explain why it won't initially turn over after sitting for days on trickle charge and testing at over 12.6V). So to test that theory, today, I jumpstarted the car from my daily driver, and it fired up cold relatively easily.

If I conclude from this experiment that my battery is insufficient to turn over that high compression, large displacement V8 when it's cold, where do I go from here? I don't know of a bigger battery than this. Do I need to look at a two battery set up? There isn't even room for that on the RCR chassis. Once the car has started and warmed up, subsequent restarts our breeze. Hit the button off you go. So it really feels like insufficient battery "oomph" and would explain why I'm getting the click from the solenoid every other try as the MSD box may need closer to 12V to function.

Any suggestions much appreciated!
 

Blas

Supporter
Try adding a jumper battery for initial cold start and see if that solves the initial start-up problem. If not than look further. The MSD needs 10 volts to operate. Battery new or old? Could have a bad cell.
Blas
 
Dead batteries will show a full charge of 12.X volts but are still dead in terms of having an ability to start your car. Ask me how I know..... I also had my battery on a charger and it showed fine and the charger thought it was fine but it was dead. Again, ask me how I know. Not sure how old your battery is, but I would go buy a new battery. I personally don't care for the Optima mat batteries. Go buy a battery from AutoZone before doing anything else. A click from the solenoid and nothing else points to battery.
 

Bill Kearley

Supporter
Charge your battery , load test it at about 280 / 300 amps for 15 seconds, it should'nt drop below 9.6 v or use a known good battery. Optima built a bunch of junk in Mexico a while back as well.
The ability to crank the engine has nothing to do with your fuel system.
Your engine is just normal re compression and size.
If the battery is good I suspect the starter or solenoid or ign. switch !!
 

Chris Kouba

Supporter
Voltage tests are worthless without load. Charge it to the best of your ability and take it somewhere and have them put it on a load tester. As others have indicated, probably a bad battery.
 

Morten

Mortified GT
Supporter
I also have the 900cca redtop battery, and as it goes I left the battery without any trickle charge for a few months. Result: a totally dead battery. The only thing I use it for now is as a dead weight :)
 
After years of sorting through my quad Weber 48IDA setup, it is finally running well (as good as it's going to get considering the set up -- huge thanks, Mike Pierce!!).

Now the only nagging issue remaining is the cold start. When I come to start it after it has been sitting a while, I will more often than not just get a "click" from the starter solenoid and no turn over. Wait a while, try again, "click". Then randomly, will turn over but not start. Repeat 20-30 more times, wait 15 minutes to half an hour later, it starts. I've tried priming more, priming less, flooding, waiting to unflood, you name it.

Then it occured to me that since the carburetors are so well tuned, this could be unrelated to fuel. My battery is 1000CA 800CCA a red top Optima that lives on a CTEK charger and is brand new. So today I stuck a voltmeter on it and saw that it reads 12.6 V with the key on and as soon as I start cranking, it drops to about 11.1 11.2. I'm running an MSD 6AL digital ignition box and I'm wondering if this is below the trigger value and I'm not getting any spark. During those 20 or 30 cycles that it usually takes to start it, I'm not even feeling it start to catch so strongly suspect I'm getting no ignition. Waiting a while might be lettng the battery recover enough to light it off (but doesn't explain why it won't initially turn over after sitting for days on trickle charge and testing at over 12.6V). So to test that theory, today, I jumpstarted the car from my daily driver, and it fired up cold relatively easily.

If I conclude from this experiment that my battery is insufficient to turn over that high compression, large displacement V8 when it's cold, where do I go from here? I don't know of a bigger battery than this. Do I need to look at a two battery set up? There isn't even room for that on the RCR chassis. Once the car has started and warmed up, subsequent restarts our breeze. Hit the button off you go. So it really feels like insufficient battery "oomph" and would explain why I'm getting the click from the solenoid every other try as the MSD box may need closer to 12V to function.

Any suggestions much appreciated!
a click and no engine turn over could indicate a bad earth or duff high resistance joint, enough current flows to engage the solenoid but not enough to turn starter motor.
When you jump start with another battery where are you connecting it to ?
If there is a 'bad' joint between battery terminal and car harness, then if you jump start by connecting to the leads you are bypassing the possible bad connection between battery and car harness.
 
Thanks, Jerry. Connections are all super clean and cable gauges are nice and fat. When I jump started successfully I connected both leads from jumper battery to my own battery posts. What does that tell us?
 

Howard Jones

Supporter
First, since you are wondering if the MSD is OK run this test. Do it under the same conditions that you have when the start problem exists. Note MSD-6 s will work all the way down to 7VDC.


The Autozone near me will load test a battery for you for free. Check with yours or preferred auto parts store if they will do the same.

Try jumping directly to the pos starter terminal thus bypassing the solenoid as well as the rest of the start circuit such as the key switch. Ff the starter cranks the engine normally this way then the solenoid has bad primary contacts.

My guess is the battery is a bad one. Battery's are MUCH worst than they were just a few years ago. My first Odyssey 925 lasted 11 years! The replacement lasted 3!!!!!! I bought a similar sized one for my SLC. It was a X2 AGM rated at 350 CCAs much like the 925 Odyssey. It was not even close to strong enough, I went to a 1200 CCA size. It was quite a bit larger but that's what it took.

Battery's simply are not what they used to be.
 
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Didn't exactly "start right up" but then again 4 x Webers will do that! ;)

But I do see your point -- just wondering how the hell can an Optima battery that is less than three years old and has been on an advanced charger (the kind of takes it through five or six steps, has a specific AGM mode, etc.) be dead already?
 
It happens all the time. Mainly from lack of use. That's why I don't waste money on those batteries. Autozone battery is cheap and lasts 3 years. I just get a new one every 3 years. $50 bucks a year.
 

Blas

Supporter
Optima batteries were great years ago when they owned themselves. After the company was sold to Johnson Controls, quality tanked. They were spun-off JC to a separate company (Claris?) and "tanked" would be a step or two up....
Blas
 
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