Cartek GT Battery Isolator

Good or bad??
Was trying to find a suitable spot for fitting an old fasion FIA battery kill switch with two push cables but failed. Google showed a nice kit from Cartek that seems to do the same on a funky way.
Was thinking about a push button each side and one inside the cockpit.

Battery Isolator Switch | CARTEK Motorsport Electronics
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Not sure if the Moroso is alternator save.

According to the Cartek GT instructions, the outside switches are momentary, push only and power is off. The inside switch has an LED and is on/off (and reset).
I like to have my GT an outside switch and inside switch.

I was planning to install this, with two pull cables, one outside the GT and one inside the cockpit.
This one is FIA compliant & won't destroy the rectifier of the alternator.
Thing is, its a bit bulky..
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Randy V

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I've been out of the game for close to 10 years now, but as a former SCCA Tech Scrutineer, I would not hesitate to issue a Thumbs-Down on an electronically controlled disconnect. They may be acceptable today, but I shudder to think what my corner workers would do if they could not find the familiar red flag or switch and the car was on fire. You can find some of the remote operated switches similar to what Neil posted. Instead of a toggle, there was a lever and you could connect to that with a PULL or PUSH knob.
 
I installed the “bulky” one pictured above. I got it from Pegasus racing. I mounted it on the bulkhead just to my right (RHD car) next to my fuel tanks switchover. Bulk was not an issue there. Also I use it as an extra layer of theft protection when I leave the car parked as the key removes easily.
 

Scott

Lifetime Supporter
I don't have any experience with the CarTek one, but I was told by two people to not use it, but maybe they were referring to the older GT version and not the newer XR version. My MoTeC guy suggested one from MSEL and the other guy uses one from COSWORTH. In any event, he thinks that the Cosworth one might be the same as the MSEL one. They have CAN-bus messaging and logging:
  • Reason for shut down (internal or external switch, over current, over temperature, CAN command to shut down etc)
  • Current passing through Master Relay
  • Voltage at Master Relay output
  • Voltage at Battery
  • Shut down command for other devices on CAN
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This is what I did for the kill switch; It has 4 poles so you can also connect fire suppression...
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Good or bad??
Was trying to find a suitable spot for fitting an old fasion FIA battery kill switch with two push cables but failed. Google showed a nice kit from Cartek that seems to do the same on a funky way.
Was thinking about a push button each side and one inside the cockpit.

Battery Isolator Switch | CARTEK Motorsport Electronics
View attachment 113332
I have inherited the same... large push button external on driver's B pillar & small push button on the dashboard which is illuminated in the centre with a red dot when live. Works great.
 
I've had this system on my cars for many years;


Works very well, UK scrutineers like it. Be aware that if you leave the system 'armed' it will slowly drain the battery.

Hope this helps,

Kind regards
Julian
 

Neil

Supporter
This is how I mounted the Moroso battery switch in my car. I removed the supplied switch knob and made a pinned aluminum lever arm that actuates the switch by a push-pull cable to the nose (pull for "OFF") and rod-actuated from the cockpit (push for "OFF"). The master battery switch must be mounted on the front of the car and clearly marked per the SCTA. Since the Long Course at Bonneville is only 5 timed miles I, like most, don't run an alternator, just on a fully-charged battery.

I don't know what is inside the Cartek or other battery isolators but if it must pass hundreds of cranking amps there might be an array of MOSFETs in parallel as the switch. If any one of those failed by shorting, the "switch" will not turn off. A mechanically-actuated switch is far less likely to fail. "You pay your money and you take your choice" as they used to say at the carnival.
 

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Stuff to think about for sure.
Electronic systems will drain the battery flat with in 297 days and indeed Mosfets can fail. And they will not disconnect..otherwise they wouldn't drain..

A €20 bulky switch that doesn't drain and will last long and act as an anti theft devise as you can take the key out.. versus a €400+ leccy system that will drain & can fail.

Old Skool switch it will be. Thanks all for your input.
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How do you guys prevent the ECU from losing all adaptations when you isolate the battery from the car?
 

Randy V

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ECU has a memory chip. No worries about that.
Basically the type of memory that the ECU's programming is stored on is referred to as NVRAM - Non-Volatile Random Access Memory. Much like an EEPROM.
 

Scott

Lifetime Supporter
A mechanical switch operated by a rods and/or cables is a proven way of doing things. That said, I’m not sure that 20GBP is going to get you a reliable switch.

All that matters is if the car can be isolated when required and device failure is just one small branch on the failure tree. If you roll the car and the mechanical switch is inaccessible or if you’re knocked out and there is no one to turn the switch off does it matter that the switch didn’t fail… nope. Technology has come a long way to mitigate the solid-state device failure modes and remove many of the situational failure modes that exist with mechanical switches.

MECHANICAL SWITCH PROS:
  • Pretty much fail proof (so long as you don’t buy a junk knockoff)
  • Inexpensive
  • Zero parasitic draw

MECHANICAL SWITCH CONS:
  • There are typically at most two ways to isolate the battery; one inside the cockpit and one in an approved location on the exterior of the car. If the driver is knocked out it’s up to someone on the exterior. If the car rolls it will land on one of four sides. If it lands on the driver’s side, the switch is inaccessible. Same if the driver’s side is pinched up against a barrier.
  • Proper installation takes thought and some effort. The switch should be located next to the battery with cables or rods run to the disconnect locations. It looks like Neil did it properly. However, I’ve seen multiple builds where the positive cable is run long distances to one of the shutoff locations. This adds weight, resistance and the length of positive cable that could potentially short.
  • The only way to isolate the battery is via the driver or someone outside the car who knows what to do.
SOLID STATE CONS:
  • More expensive
  • The device could fail
  • One milliamp parasitic draw in standby mode
Neil, points out that if the MOSFET fails you could lose the ability to isolate the battery. Yep, that would be a massive risk if you built one in your garage or bought a poorly engineered unit. My unit constantly monitors temperature, voltage and current on both sides of the device, and checks for a short-circuit condition before activating. It’s theoretically possible for it to fail closed, but that’s remote.

Randy gives a thumbs down because people might not know what to do with the buttons. These are FIA/MSA/etc. certified devices which have been on the market for a while so if that’s an issue, I’m not sure I want to run at that track. That said, one of the circuits on the MSEL device would allow you to use the familiar “flag” switches which might be a good idea.

I don’t see 297 days to drain the battery as being an issue. If your car is going to sit that long you have a bunch of other storage considerations. You could also install a mechanical switch (see paranoid case below) to eliminate that issue.

SOLID STATE PROS:
  • Easier to install. It’s trivial to locate it directly next to the battery and low-current switch wire is infinitely easier to route than cables and rods.
  • Depending on the device, you can pretty much use whatever switch you want.
  • You can have as many kill switches as you want. If I had a dedicated track car, I’d have four; cockpit, left side, right side and rear
The MSEL unit that I have has CAN bus integration which has the following benefits:
  • Disconnect command. This allows the use of an inertial measurement unit (IMU) to detect a collision or rollover event and send a disconnect command.
  • Instrumentation of current flowing to/from the battery, voltage at the Master Relay output and voltage at the battery. This data is used to prevent a failure, but it can also be logged which is really useful when you have multiple electric fans, fuel pumps, cooling pumps, power-assisted steering, etc. and you want to figure out what’s going.
At races where every corner is manned maybe someone gets to you in time, maybe they don’t. If you roll the car or have it pinched against a barrier, maybe the external switch is accessible, maybe it isn’t. But what about a track day that isn’t fully staffed or when you’re on the street as many of us are? Who’s going to shut the car off if you’re knocked out? In the case of a flip or roll, the IMU will likely disconnect BEFORE there is an impact. In the case of an impact it’s certainly going to turn things off quicker than the driver could. The speed of disconnect might not be a big issue for a carbureted car, but it certainly is with an injected car with a 1,800 HP capable fuel pump.

My use case is mostly street with some track so the automatic disconnect on roll over or impact outweighs the small risk that the device might fail. It seems that many race teams have come to similar conclusion for their use cases. I listed a paranoid approach below that provides the benefits of both… I wonder if anyone has done it.

Recommendations for three approaches:

Mechanical Approach
  • Purchase a proper switch from a place like Pegasus Auto Racing. eBay and Amazon aren’t your friend for this type of purchase because there are many knock-off imitation switches out there.
  • Take the time to install it properly (i.e., switch is located next to the battery)
Solid-State Approach
  • Purchase one with appropriate technology to mitigate chance of failure
  • Integrate with an IMU (e.g., automatic isolation on impact or roll over)
Paranoid Approach
  • Install a mechanical switch
  • Install a solid-state device between the mechanical switch and the battery. Do not wire any switches to the device.
  • This provides the same shut-off reliability because the switch and the device are in series. The device provides logging and automatic disconnect in the case of an impact or roll over. The mechanical switch also allows you to eliminate all parasitic draw.
 
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Neil

Supporter
At the risk of beating a dead horse I'll add a few more thoughts on this subject. The SCTA rule book requires that a battery cutoff switch must be mounted on the front or rear of your car, not the side or in the cockpit. The safety crew expects to find a switch in the front or back to disable the car's electrical system. This rule came about after a crash and fire where the safety crew could not find the battery cut-off switch (it was in the cockpit). The fire was extinguished but kept reigniting because the electric fuel pump was still running and they could not shut it off.
As I posted previously, my battery cut-off switch in located on the nose of my car and, in addition, I have a large 12V contactor in series with the battery and all the 12V circuits in the car. The contactor (a big high current relay) coil is powered from the battery switch but there is a toggle switch with a spring-loaded guard that operates as a master electrical "OFF" switch. In series with that toggle switch I have an impact switch (required by the SCTA) that opens at about 20Gs. This way if I hit something hard and I'm knocked unconscious the whole electrical system will be automatically disabled. I also have "switch breakers" on each major circuit branch (fuel pump, ignition, instruments, etc) so that things can be protected as well as switched on & off independently. This is handy when cranking the engine to build up oil pressure with the ignition off so it won't start.
 

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Neil, now you mention it, I have a few friends that do Rallying their Escort mk2 BDA and they once told me the same, Never on the side cause you might end up on your side... You never end up on your back or front so thats where the remote cable should be.....
 
Just got it wired up today.
Now to find pull cables long enough, one to go to the dash & one to go in front of the windshield.
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Wife said (owner of the GT) this mechanical switch we have on stock, if we order a electrical one online it will delay the build.
Old skool it is..
 
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