drifting

[Howard Jones]

Start out your GTD with -0.5 degree camber on the fronts with -3.0 degrees castor. Try -.75 degree at the rears. Set up the tow at the rear nearly straight ahead but with no + tow. and at the front about a 1/16" total towed in. As far as the castor at the rear mine came out nearly staight up and down.

Oh and REALLY don't get me started on F1. Because nothing will EVER top the US debacle.

AS far as drifting goes..... whatever.... as my 12yo daughter says all too offen. As a matter of fact the drifting at Long Beach was better that the USGP and the CART race at San Jose COMBINED.

 

[Lucas van Altena]

I will thank you all for the interest of the topic of drifting, as you know as we said in Holland : some people likes the daughter, other people likes the mother, a question of taste.

Ron, all the setting were negative.

Howard, Bernies driving circus made a laughing mass of it in Indy, but i remember the time before Bernie, i went to Zandvoort and when i was walking thought the entrance-lane of the circuit, i heard a Honda 12 cyl 1500cc in the early 60's between the public.
I never forget that moment when the screaming Honda went a meter passed me in walking speed (it must had a superb clutch).
Thank you Howard for data for my GTD, i will comply that on the GTD.
Regards, Luc

 

[Andy Besic]

Altena
I believe your set-up problem is likely in your differential. For optimum controlled drifting I think a locked rear end would give you the ability to break the rear end loose without a violent spin. If you are running a stock Renault transaxle you likely have an open rear end so HP will break one wheel loose but lateral G's will be needed to break the other loose. Balanceing the 2 factors in an open rear end with a high HP car with the weight in the back is nearly impossible.
I don't know if you have driven a go cart with a solid rear axle, but this is the principle I am speaking of.
So pull out the diff, and weld it up and let us know how it works!

Andy

 

[Paul Thompson 'Hooligan']

I agree with Andy - in my experience driving a number of GTDs - a normal Renault diff will not easily drift in what can be called a 'controlled manner'. Once you break traction, with the inside wheel, you'll suddenly lose lateral grip and the rear engined car will oversteer violently. You may catch it if you are quick, but I doubt you'll be able to hold a long drift (and not a smokey one).

With the Quaife ATB, a certain amount of drifting is possible, especially in the wet, but not what I have observed as 'spectator drifting' and your transmission is going to get seriously hot in the process....

I have not driven a 'locked diff' - lots of understeer/push???

Anyone else....?

 

[Andy Besic]

Paul,
A locked diff allows only understeer or oversteer. In nearly all road racing applications it will make you slower around the course, but give a very controlled drifting feeling or "steering with your Butt". The locked diff will make the car a great drifter, and straight line accelerator, but a terrible handful the rest of the time.

Andy

 

[Ron Earp]

Andy,

I agree with you somewhat on having a welded diff makes a terrible car - I have to drive two! But, only terrible if care has not been taken to compensate for the welded diff. The spring and shock setup for a welded rear car is completely different than a LSD setup. Some of the fastest RX7s and Z cars in Improved Touring still use welded diffs for a variety of reasons, I have to on the Jensen Healey due to the fact there is no LSD available for it.

With good setup of springs and suspension it is possible to get one to turn in well and oversteer predictably with throttle, so much so that you can drive it on the edge of oversteer and it can be quite rapid through corners.

Now, one that isn't setup right, like our 260Z a few months ago, was as you describe - a terrible handful on the course. I had a hell of a time driving it as the push was tremendous. I'd never driven anything like it, locked up was really rough with that car and I got walked on the twisty parts. However, that got fixed and with some changes the car was a pleasure to drive.

I'd rather have a LSD, but sometimes it isn't possible and one can still make do and run a fast car welded. Setup is picky though and I still haven't sorted the Jensen out.

Ron

 

[Malcolm]

To help make the rear end of the GTD more unstable to encourage a drift, disconnect your front anti roll bar (sway bar), pump up your rear tyres (Dunlop Post Historic tyres will slide quite nicely as they are cross ply tyres!) and adjust the position of the rear trailing arm links at the rear bulkhead to the other pair of holes in the chassis.

Non of the above is recommended to those who like to keep a racing line on a circuit!

An LSD will help control the back end as an open rear end will lead to some good tank slappers.

However if you wish to learn your car control I beleive you would be better suited just using it on a circuit in the rain. It will save you tyres, wear and tear and will be like more normal driving contriol but at much lower speeds.

I once did some doughnuts in my 40 and found I needed to use petrol on the paint to get the stuck on granules of tyre rubber off. Much harder work compared to cleaning the car after a wet track session.

When you get your drfits right, please post some video footage, I am sure we will all enjoy watching it. Have fun!

 

[Andy Besic]

Ron,

We are actually in agreement. The cars you describe are front engine with I would guess a front wieght bias and similar width tires front and rear. My GTD has a 65% rear weight bias with 10" wide tires rear and 7" front. A locker in a GTD Would be a BIG handful for "normal" use but would allow the car to drift very controlled as you described.

Malcom,
Your advice for learning car control is excellent! I started on old hard BF Goodrich TA radials that would howl and screech before letting go. When I could get them to howl trough nearly every turn without loosing control I was better able to learn the limits of the car as well as fine tune suspension and brake balance. I have since fitted Hoosier Vintage treaded race tires that are very sticky and the learning process has started over for driving up to the edge of adhesion.

Andy

 

Howard, you should be very happy at all the IRL events then, cuase the one thing old Tony G. does have is plenty of empty seats for his fans to view from.
However you might want to save up those frequent flyer miles for the only western race left is Sears Point. ( Just announced 14 total races for 06'. and look for Chip and Target to be gone as well).
Kinda funny how he and AJ didn't want a series with Foreign drivers, out of control costs, big factory backed teams, and ROAD COURSES.
Can't wait till the 500's board and his family throws him out as CEO for waisting their profits, making a mess of Indy and killing open wheel racing in the US.
IMHO ofcourse, Steve