Paul Thompson 'Hooligan'
Admin
Engine 1 - Ouch!
- Thread starter p thompson
- Start date
something had to bind for that to happen.
Or maybe sliding the tires and swinging the car backwards, to cause the engine to rotate backwards?
Not sure, but something had to put a horific bind on that chain.
Not sure, but something had to put a horific bind on that chain.
Paul Thompson 'Hooligan'
Admin
pour valves....
You're not wrong Raca - 14 out of 16... and I only replaced three a couple of weeks ago after engine was 'buzzed'...
'X' marks the bent valves...
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Paul Thompson 'Hooligan'
Admin
Spot on Gordon! - but not what I could have anticipated.... or imagined for that matter.
Turns out a hydraulic lifter had exploded and its inner piston found it's way into the timing cover and into the gear/chain mesh...
Thing is, ALL parts were accounted for when engine was buzzed.Only one lifter had 'popped' and all its internals were located in the valley (all 16 were replaced regardless). Then 0n removing the sump, the errant 'rogue' lifter part was located, complete with 'bite marks' where the crank gear had 'chewed' it as it broke the chain..
What's even stranger, is this engine prior to end of 2006 had solid lifters for the previous 3 or 4 yrs, so the rogue lifter part must have been 'hiding away' somewhere in the top front of the timing cover for all that time and just happened to choose the other day to say 'HELLO'. Engine had run for about 15 - 20 mins after replacement lifters/valves fitted.
Replacement parts on their way and no other damage found.
Pic shows the complete lifter + the 'rogue part' (on the right)..
Also, second pic shows a 'spring' I also found in the sump, god only knows where it came from as it looks too tiny for any engine component I can think of... any ideas guys?
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Paul,
That's the leak down plunger spring. You also need to find the check ball(little ball bearing) check ball spring (very very small spring) and check ball cage, which is a small stamped cage that holds the check ball and check ball spring to the bottom of the leak down plunger.
These parts are so small they could be any where, look carefully until you find. Yoe might have lost them draining the oil.
My suggestion is, if your going to be running over 6500 RPM for sustained periods is to go to sold lifters or go to great lengths to insure your not causing windage in the pan, this windage will lead to foam/tiny air bubbles in the oil which causes spongy lifters and your valve train becoming very unstable.
Good luck,
That's the leak down plunger spring. You also need to find the check ball(little ball bearing) check ball spring (very very small spring) and check ball cage, which is a small stamped cage that holds the check ball and check ball spring to the bottom of the leak down plunger.
These parts are so small they could be any where, look carefully until you find. Yoe might have lost them draining the oil.
My suggestion is, if your going to be running over 6500 RPM for sustained periods is to go to sold lifters or go to great lengths to insure your not causing windage in the pan, this windage will lead to foam/tiny air bubbles in the oil which causes spongy lifters and your valve train becoming very unstable.
Good luck,
Paul Thompson 'Hooligan'
Admin
Thanks Jim,
I did find the main spring from the recent faulty lifter, + the ball, + the little cup you mention, but have also found this small spring and it is tiny, so I guess it could be what you describe. The real problem was we were not expecting to be looking for bits additional to what should be fitted. i.e. having '17' lifters in the engine is somewhat unexpected...
Below is the recent lifter showing the relative size of the 2 springs, the little cup and ball valve are not shown but were located still in the valley.
It still just amazes me that the 'rogue' lifter plunger has been hiding within the motor for several years....
I did find the main spring from the recent faulty lifter, + the ball, + the little cup you mention, but have also found this small spring and it is tiny, so I guess it could be what you describe. The real problem was we were not expecting to be looking for bits additional to what should be fitted. i.e. having '17' lifters in the engine is somewhat unexpected...
Below is the recent lifter showing the relative size of the 2 springs, the little cup and ball valve are not shown but were located still in the valley.
It still just amazes me that the 'rogue' lifter plunger has been hiding within the motor for several years....
Attachments
Peter Delaney
GT40s Supporter
Hi Paul, if it is any consolation, I had the roller bearings distintegrate on one lifter - it left tiny bits of them all over the engine !
Net result was a full rebuild (the one I was going to have anyway, but hopefully some years in the future) - the block & heads were ok, but new 331 crank, pistons, rods, bearings, oil pump, sump, cam, lifters, pushrods went in.
At $8,500 it wasn't cheap, but I ended up with a much stronger engine which is now a "known quantity" - I am happy (unlike the bank manager) !!
Good Luck mate,
Kind Regards,
Peter D.
Net result was a full rebuild (the one I was going to have anyway, but hopefully some years in the future) - the block & heads were ok, but new 331 crank, pistons, rods, bearings, oil pump, sump, cam, lifters, pushrods went in.
At $8,500 it wasn't cheap, but I ended up with a much stronger engine which is now a "known quantity" - I am happy (unlike the bank manager) !!
Good Luck mate,
Kind Regards,
Peter D.
Malcolm,
With limited information regarding the explosion, I thought my thought might be a possibility. I guess I should have kept my mouth shut.
With limited information regarding the explosion, I thought my thought might be a possibility. I guess I should have kept my mouth shut.
Paul Thompson 'Hooligan'
Admin
Parts have been ordered and will be winging their way here hopefully by the end of the week..
So after a busy weekend (Brian Ferry concert on Sunday) / Monday - we should be good for Tuesday at Snetterton....
Fingers crossed.
So after a busy weekend (Brian Ferry concert on Sunday) / Monday - we should be good for Tuesday at Snetterton....
Fingers crossed.
Paul, when you get the new lifters in. Remember that hydraulic rollers can handle 6500 revs, no more.
Paul,
I total agree with Gordon on this as I mentioned above.
"My suggestion is, if your going to be running over 6500 RPM for sustained periods is to go to sold lifters or go to great lengths to insure your not causing windage in the pan, this windage will lead to foam/tiny air bubbles in the oil which causes spongy lifters and your valve train becoming very unstable".
Good luck,
I total agree with Gordon on this as I mentioned above.
"My suggestion is, if your going to be running over 6500 RPM for sustained periods is to go to sold lifters or go to great lengths to insure your not causing windage in the pan, this windage will lead to foam/tiny air bubbles in the oil which causes spongy lifters and your valve train becoming very unstable".
Good luck,
Paul Thompson 'Hooligan'
Admin
Hey guys - easy up on Jools....
He has an ACEs Suretech Shift-light system fitted that also records 'peak max' and 'smart-max' revs as a tell tale.
After the initial 'buzzing' caused by the trans jumping out of gear whilst being 'hard on it' in 4th at Bentwaters Sprint - I looked/recalled the recorded data.
The peakmax was I believe some 6800rpm or so, but duration was less than a couple of 10ths of a second. The 'smart-max', i.e. where revs remained high for more than 0.4s was actually only 5800 or so, so as expected, he was sympathetic to their ability I think.
After the initial rebuild (all 16 lifters were replaced) + 3 valves, the subsequent failure was not caused by revs, but by the timing chain being broken by the 17th rogue lifter part that had released itself from its hiding place......
The motor has a windage tray in the sump although I did think the oil removed did look slightly aerated, so carefull measurements will be made whilst sump is off for the 'refill' once complete...
Finally, the new (less than 15 mins) lifters all look/feel ok, but is there a way to easily test?
He has an ACEs Suretech Shift-light system fitted that also records 'peak max' and 'smart-max' revs as a tell tale.
After the initial 'buzzing' caused by the trans jumping out of gear whilst being 'hard on it' in 4th at Bentwaters Sprint - I looked/recalled the recorded data.
The peakmax was I believe some 6800rpm or so, but duration was less than a couple of 10ths of a second. The 'smart-max', i.e. where revs remained high for more than 0.4s was actually only 5800 or so, so as expected, he was sympathetic to their ability I think.
After the initial rebuild (all 16 lifters were replaced) + 3 valves, the subsequent failure was not caused by revs, but by the timing chain being broken by the 17th rogue lifter part that had released itself from its hiding place......
The motor has a windage tray in the sump although I did think the oil removed did look slightly aerated, so carefull measurements will be made whilst sump is off for the 'refill' once complete...
Finally, the new (less than 15 mins) lifters all look/feel ok, but is there a way to easily test?
