Has anyone opted for upgrading fuel lines to braided lines - the real ones, with inner and outer braids? I like the look and I like the security, but I'm not sure I like the total cost. Plus, I think you need to change the h.p. fuel pump to one with -6 or -8 fittings, like a Weldon, as opposed to the supplied one that uses hose barbs. Likewise with the h.p. fuel filter. And then the fuel return...
Fuel Lines
- Thread starter patbarry
- Start date
Pat,
One caveat with braided lines is that the presence of MTBE in gasoline will slowly deteriorate the lines with the result that your garage will start to smell like gasoline in 3-5 years and you'll need to replace the lines. The only braided line I've found so far that is MTBE proof is Earl's Speedflex teflon lines, but I don't think they are readily available in anything larger than -6.
One caveat with braided lines is that the presence of MTBE in gasoline will slowly deteriorate the lines with the result that your garage will start to smell like gasoline in 3-5 years and you'll need to replace the lines. The only braided line I've found so far that is MTBE proof is Earl's Speedflex teflon lines, but I don't think they are readily available in anything larger than -6.
I haven't decided yet, Pat, but will probably go with the stuff that RF provided in the kit, at least initially.
Ron Earp
Admin
I'm actually running lines at the moment too and I'm using standard fuel line, but, with double clamps on all fitting connections and p clamps to hold them down every four inches. I figure they will not rub or get damaged in this way. Furthermore, I'm boxing in the area under each of the rear sills so that no debris or water will get into this area. The area under the engine will remain open, but that is all.
Ron
Ron
I like your idea about covering the sills. I was also thinking of putting in a cover between the water pipes and fuel lines to deflect heat away since they pass close by. That might be an exercise in futility, though.
I appreciate the comments. I had to get the brackets rewelded on the right side tank to get the fill line to fit better; that's done now so time to hook everything up!
I appreciate the comments. I had to get the brackets rewelded on the right side tank to get the fill line to fit better; that's done now so time to hook everything up!
Peter Delaney
GT40s Supporter
It looks like half the GT40 builders are at the stage of running fuel lines !
I am also at that stage, & for what its worth, this is the story according to 3 local experts here in Oz :
- The only Earls braided hose available here is known to emit fuel smells after a fairly short time - weeks, I am told (I guess that this is not the Speedflex referred to above).
- The other option we have here for braided hose is Pirtek - the trouble is that they do not recommend barb/clamps on this type of hose. Big cost for AN style fittings (not to mention changing pumps & changeover valve which already have barb fittings) - estimated around A$500 !!
- Perhaps the easiest way of getting the best of both worlds is to use standard EFI rubber hoses, & then dress them up with braided "sleeves" & use 1 of 2 types of clamps :
a) Standard S/S worm-drive clamp with a fake anodised aly hex cover that just slips over the clamp & is squeezed up with multi-grips, or
b) Fake "AN Style" clamps which have an outer anodised aley hex cover with a built-in S/S worm-drive clamp.
The braided covers & both styles of fake terminations are available from Summit Racing ( www.summitracing.com )& JEGS ( www.jegs.com ) & are quite cheap. They are also available in many sizes, from fuel hoses, to vacuum hoses, through to radiator hoses.
Kind Regards,
Peter D.
I am also at that stage, & for what its worth, this is the story according to 3 local experts here in Oz :
- The only Earls braided hose available here is known to emit fuel smells after a fairly short time - weeks, I am told (I guess that this is not the Speedflex referred to above).
- The other option we have here for braided hose is Pirtek - the trouble is that they do not recommend barb/clamps on this type of hose. Big cost for AN style fittings (not to mention changing pumps & changeover valve which already have barb fittings) - estimated around A$500 !!
- Perhaps the easiest way of getting the best of both worlds is to use standard EFI rubber hoses, & then dress them up with braided "sleeves" & use 1 of 2 types of clamps :
a) Standard S/S worm-drive clamp with a fake anodised aly hex cover that just slips over the clamp & is squeezed up with multi-grips, or
b) Fake "AN Style" clamps which have an outer anodised aley hex cover with a built-in S/S worm-drive clamp.
The braided covers & both styles of fake terminations are available from Summit Racing ( www.summitracing.com )& JEGS ( www.jegs.com ) & are quite cheap. They are also available in many sizes, from fuel hoses, to vacuum hoses, through to radiator hoses.
Kind Regards,
Peter D.
Pete,
Strange you say that the earls lines can emit a fuel smell. I can verify this one for sure as this is exactly what I have at pesent. I have been going silly looking for a fuel leak or seep and can find nothing. every fitting is AN and coupled to the earls recommended hose.
I am paranoid about a fuel fire and have triple checked everything to be sure.
Cheers,
RV
Strange you say that the earls lines can emit a fuel smell. I can verify this one for sure as this is exactly what I have at pesent. I have been going silly looking for a fuel leak or seep and can find nothing. every fitting is AN and coupled to the earls recommended hose.
I am paranoid about a fuel fire and have triple checked everything to be sure.
Cheers,
RV
Peter Delaney
GT40s Supporter
Rick, this whole thing came up when I took the RHS tank cover, complete with swirl pot, HP pump, regulator, HP filter to a couple of local experts to see if they could fit it out with braided hoses. (This assembly is all one module on my DRB, sitting above the back of the RHS fuel tank) - the DRB manual says "owner's choice" for the fuel system, so this was Version 9 !! of my design, set up with simple rubber hoses & barb fittings to check that it all fits & clears everything. After hearing the stories about fuel smells & braided hoses, I think I'll just run clamps around the hoses on the "temporary" setup for now.
At least the suppliers were honest - good looks / bad smells, or bad looks / no smells !!!
I once had a Jag XJS - that damn thing was the best car I have owned - when it was going (I ended up buying a crappy old MGB as a back-up car )!!! I had a socket wrench in the glove-box which fitted all of the 36 different fuel hose clamps - any one of which was guaranteed to leak at least once a week. I really don't want to go back to those days of deciding whether to grab the socket wrench or the fire extinguisher whenever I smelled fuel !
I am also getting a bit paranoid about fire with the '40, having browsed through a couple of "serious" GT40 books which give full histories of the real ones - an alarming proportion of them seem to have been "destroyed by fire". As a consequence, I am looking at installing one of those CO2 bombs as a precaution.
With space being a premium in these cars, I am thinking of mounting it in front of a false footrest at the end of the passenger footwell, or just in front of the passenger seat
(the latter seems attractive if mounted vertically, particularly for mini-skirted passengers) but a shortened life-span for the driver might not be worth it when, not if, the driver's wife figures it out !!
Peter D.
At least the suppliers were honest - good looks / bad smells, or bad looks / no smells !!!
I once had a Jag XJS - that damn thing was the best car I have owned - when it was going (I ended up buying a crappy old MGB as a back-up car )!!! I had a socket wrench in the glove-box which fitted all of the 36 different fuel hose clamps - any one of which was guaranteed to leak at least once a week. I really don't want to go back to those days of deciding whether to grab the socket wrench or the fire extinguisher whenever I smelled fuel !
I am also getting a bit paranoid about fire with the '40, having browsed through a couple of "serious" GT40 books which give full histories of the real ones - an alarming proportion of them seem to have been "destroyed by fire". As a consequence, I am looking at installing one of those CO2 bombs as a precaution.
With space being a premium in these cars, I am thinking of mounting it in front of a false footrest at the end of the passenger footwell, or just in front of the passenger seat
(the latter seems attractive if mounted vertically, particularly for mini-skirted passengers) but a shortened life-span for the driver might not be worth it when, not if, the driver's wife figures it out !!
Peter D.
One of the things that made me nervous about dropping a wad of cash on Earl's fuel hoses was the huge warnings/disclaimers posted in their catalog for both their Pro-Lite 350 and Auto-Flex HTE hoses. (And the price.) Basically, they don't guarantee the hoses for any specific fuel due to the "...number of unpublished additives in their (gasoline manufacturer's) blends". "If in doubt, use teflon lined hose." If you look further on, under the Speed-Flex hose section they do say this is basically the cat's ass.
I personally have decided to stick with basic rubber fuel injection hose for the time being and perhaps upgrade later. I'm not sure about the cosmetic stainless sleeve as I would always wonder what defects (such as chaffing) it might be hiding.
For what it's worth, a ten foot section of the Speed Flex hose lists at US$54.10 (for -4 size) and US$93.40 for -6. This in the Nov 2002 price sheet. Jobber price is US$37.33 and US$64.45, respectively.
I personally have decided to stick with basic rubber fuel injection hose for the time being and perhaps upgrade later. I'm not sure about the cosmetic stainless sleeve as I would always wonder what defects (such as chaffing) it might be hiding.
For what it's worth, a ten foot section of the Speed Flex hose lists at US$54.10 (for -4 size) and US$93.40 for -6. This in the Nov 2002 price sheet. Jobber price is US$37.33 and US$64.45, respectively.
What is kind of funny about this is why don't they used the same rubber for the rubber part of their stainless braided hose (e.g. perform-o-flex) as that used in the normal fuel lines? Assuming it is not.
Ron Earp
Admin
Call me cheap or call me no show, but I don't see the huge advantage the stainless over rubber hoses have. I have, and would rather have, my good quality rubber hoses double clasped to a fitting and the hose run next to the chassis with clamps. Then, as added protection, a barrier between the hose and "road" in the form of ali panels. I've just never gotten the braided hose deal. They look nice, but, in my limited experience at the track and shows I see more folks having leaks with them than anything else. I know I've seen lots of times folks saying "Hey, anyone got an AN # wrench?" when I haven't seen that with good old hose clamps. Maybe because everyone has a screwdriver and doesn't have to ask????? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I think the widespread use of MTBE in gasoline and millions of weeping braided hoses will drive the marketplace to offer a new alternative in braided fuel lines that are compatible with a wide range of fuels. I predict Aeroquip or Earl's or somebody will have an improved braided hose on the market within 24 months. In the meanwhile I'll use the stuff that RF provided.
Howard Jones
Supporter
THERE IS NO MTBE IN UNION 76 PREMIUM 91 GAS!!!!!!!!!
Peter Delaney
GT40s Supporter
Dumb Question - what is MTBE ?
My current guess is "Mean Time Bewteen Explosions" !!
Kind Regards,
Peter D.
My current guess is "Mean Time Bewteen Explosions" !!
Kind Regards,
Peter D.
MTBE stands for methyl-tert-butyl ether. It is a gasoline oxygenate additive that increases the efficiency of combustion and lowers tailpipe emissions. Here in the eastern US, it started showing up in gasoline in the mid 1980s. Its use is currently mandated in designated EPA non-attainment areas - those areas where air pollution exceeds the limits set forth in the Clean Air Act. Because MTBE is highly soluble, mobile and persistent in groundwater (when it gets there due to leaking storage tanks or spills), there is pressure now to find an alternative. Unfortunately, all the alternatives (typically alcohols) hae the same compatability issues with braided fuel lines as MTBE does...they slowly degrade the rubber on lines designed for pure gasoline or avgas.
Howard Jones
Supporter
Mark
I had not know that alcohol also degrades most braided fuel lines. Do you know what indycars, sprintcars, and some dragsters do about this problem? Could it be that their systems are not in use long enought to be a problem? Or maybe race teams purge their fuel systems when not at the track.
Howard
I had not know that alcohol also degrades most braided fuel lines. Do you know what indycars, sprintcars, and some dragsters do about this problem? Could it be that their systems are not in use long enought to be a problem? Or maybe race teams purge their fuel systems when not at the track.
Howard
Similar threads
