GT40 on fire or how to prevent

[Mike Pass]

Just swapping over to teflon lined SS braided fuel hose. The end fittings are different and use a ferrule but they then screw onto the old -6 AN fittings. I don't know if the ANODISED aluminium fittings are ethanol proof. I opened up some old hose after use with E5 and it was not a pretty sight.

I have also done a trial of ethanol removal. I pumped out the tanks and put 10 litres in a plastic container with 1 litre of coloured water (blue food colouring). Shook thoroughly and left overnight to settle. The water forms a layer at the bottom which I then drained out. The ethanol dissolves preferentially in the water thus removing it from the petrol/gas. The result is seen in the pic attached.
The "de-ethanoled fuel" then went back in. This may be a good way to remove the ethanol for longer term storage. Remember to run some through the carb to eliminate it from the float bowls. If out and about you can fill up with E5 as normal but pump out any left and treat to remove the ethanol to prevent damage.One actual benefit of ethanol in the fuel is that it will pick up any water lurking in the tank.

In the UK we are soon to get E10 (10%) ethanol in all lower octane fuels and some higher octane fuels. Most fuels will be at least E5. The pumps will be marked E5 or E10. As far as I have been able to find out the only ethanol free fuel is Esso Supreme 97 which is ethanol free in most UK regions except Devon and Cornwall. Teeside and Scotland and some parts of Northern England.The pump may still be marked E5 but it is ethanol free and there seems to be no plan to add it to this fuel. I will be buying some and testing it by the above method.
Cheers
Mike

 

[JP Verweij]

E5 we all have for at least a decade by EU mandatory. It fell under the zero % rule so it was never signed on the pump. You never knew.
If you asked they where alowed by EU regulation to say no ethanol blending as E5 fell under the nearly nothing so zero %.
There's an article comming up in the enthusiast Fortyfication about it.

To be sure, Esso Supreme (and competitors) has zero ethanol, do the jug "de ethanol" thing Mike did. If it has no ethanol, it will show it, then you'll know it.
In Holland it showed signs of ethanol which is no suprice as E5 falls unders the EU zero % regulation.
So don't be fooled. EU mandated ethanol blending years ago for all fuels unless racing fuel and aviation.

 

[Davidmgbv8]

One trick the guys that run ethanol powered drag cars do over here is anodize the aluminum tanks in and out. I coated my alloy tank of my TC with Red Kote.

 

[Frank Catt]

Cheers Frank,

I first saw those valves on P1008 when we laser surveyed it in 2006.
One of these days I will get a suitable design done for a dump system, perhaps you can help me ?

View attachment 117221

Jimmy, would be delighted to help you, please E or call me anytime, Frank ( I am writing this from hospital after surgery today, too many GT40s kills old men's hips )

 

[JimmyMac]

Jimmy, would be delighted to help you, please E or call me anytime, Frank ( I am writing this from hospital after surgery today, too many GT40s kills old men's hips )

Thanks Frank,
I shall call you later on some time this year when you are feeling better.
Stay safe in there.

 

[Howard Jones]

So there might be some confusion about the difference between solenoid valves and electric ball valves. Let's use a normally open configuration because that's what is need for our purpose. In either case, the valve would be installed so that the flow direction would be from the high-pressure fuel rail or carburetor back to the fuel tank when opened. So as to be failsafe the unpowered valve would need to default without electrical power to the open position. In that case, the valve would need to be held closed when the car is in operation.

A solenoid valve must be continuously held activated with electrical power. The solenoid coil will need continuous current flow to do this. Usually, then spring pressure is used to change the state of the valve itself. In our case the 12vdc power keeps the solenoid activated (closed) until the power is turned off and then the spring pushes the valve open and transfers the fuel pressure back to the fuel tank.

The powered ball valve is similar except that when the ball valve is powered on an electronic circuit in the valve controller charges a capacitor and at the same time closes the valve. Then once closed the valve remains closed without a coil needing power to hold it in position against spring pressure. Instead, the circuit only needs to sense that the power is still on and until it is lost the position of the valve will remain in that position. Then when the power is lost (fuel pumps turned off) the sensing circuit uses the power in the charged capacitor to change the position of the valve to open, dumping the fuel pressure back to the tank.

The real difference is the current demand. The ball valve will use about a 1/2 amp to change position (3-5 seconds) and then only a few mA's to remain in that state. On the other hand, a solenoid valve requires about an amp and a half to remain closed all the time the car is in operation.

Ball valves are also known to have less flow restriction in the valve body and were essentially developed to address this hold in position current demand. Solenoids can be and are made, to be reliable. But the difference is one of function concept as I have described.

Here is an example of a solenoid valve of like requirements so that it can be compared to the ball valve in post #39:

1/2" 12V DC Stainless Electric Solenoid Valve

This 1/2" inch stainless steel 12 volt solenoid valve requires 0 pressure to operate and can handle up to 115 PSI. It can handle high temperatures up to 265°F and harsh fluids like diesel fuel. This valve will work with a 12 volt power supply like a typical car battery.

www.electricsolenoidvalves.com

 

[Frank Catt]

several years ago I looked at all of the options available at that time and experimented with a few. I settled on a German made solenoid valve, and these are fitted to quite few of " my" cars now without failure. However we all have to continue evaluation of any other alternatives, that's what makes out interests even more interesting ! Frank

 

[Howard Jones]

Frank, It's pretty clear that your method works and has worked for several years on a number of cars. That track record is in itself no small recommendation. The ball valve method is simply another alternative that has some added advantages in relation to power consumption albeit a continuous draw of an amp and a half using a solenoid isn't really an unmanageable current draw.

I had another idea. In addition to the fuel pressure bleed system. The fuel system dump valve system could be triggered by a momentum switch in addition to de-energizing the fuel pump. In a shunt then you would not only turn off the fuel pump but dump the fuel pressure in the system at the same time. Just a thought towards the prevention of a fire. This, as I said before, would be especially useful in a high-pressure FI system.

 

[Richard Milner]

Jimmy, it works well, and SC Jaguar have stock. A system that dumps all residual fuel pressure away to safety is in my opinion essential, and we have had no carb fires since it's inception. ( much better than waiting for a fire then trying to put it out.

Jimmy, it works well, and SC Jaguar have stock. A system that dumps all residual fuel pressure away to safety is in my opinion essential, and we have had no carb fires since it's inception. ( much better than waiting for a fire then trying to put it out.

Absolutely right Frank. Your system is brilliant, not only adds to safety but solved the problem of starting when hot. No more sitting around in filling stations waiting for all to cool.

 

[Neil]

Why not just add a small bleed from the pressurized fuel rail back to the fuel tank? This will automatically de-pressurize the system without any complication or added electrical current. The fuel volume is minimal so even a small bleed will quickly reduce fuel pressure to zero. The additional demand on the existing fuel pump will be trivial. I can envisage a bleed made with a Holly carburetor main jet. A mechanical fuel injection uses a similar fuel bleed system to adjust fuel mixture.

 

[JP Verweij]

Why not just add a small bleed from the pressurized fuel rail back to the fuel tank? This will automatically de-pressurize the system without any complication or added electrical current. The fuel volume is minimal so even a small bleed will quickly reduce fuel pressure to zero. The additional demand on the existing fuel pump will be trivial. I can envisage a bleed made with a Holly carburetor main jet. A mechanical fuel injection uses a similar fuel bleed system to adjust fuel mixture.

a 0.5mm orifice will be sufficient.

 

[Frank Catt]

What I wanted and achieved was an instant fuel pressure dump , not even a few seconds , as once its alight it aint going out !