J9, formerly J7A

So, I have a question about the car/chassis/original/replica--whatever it is--that appeared at The Quail.

ultimatecarpage.com shows an image of the engine. It has an almost clear (?) plastic cover sitting atop the engine. Here is the image.

36492.jpg


What purpose does this plastic (?) cover serve and what kind of induction system does it cover? (Though I perceive hoses and connectors, the carburetors (?) or fuel injection system (?) is or are obscured by the many cylindrical indentations inside the box. ultimatecarpage.com recently sent out an article about the Ford Mk IV (please, I am not asking about the argument about what this car is) and this engine treatment is unique. No other Mk IV the website chose to feature is like this. Can you help me, please?

Thanks.
 

Terry Oxandale

Skinny Man
Just hazarding a guess, but being the carbs are side pivot (4160 series), which is odd considering the purpose of this car, I'd think they were the 390 CFM Holley (unless this engine could use every bit of two 600 CFM carbs). I see the plastic box as means of being able to visually inspect the carbs without removal of the air box (for leaks, etc), and the short stacks on each carb make a nice smooth entry for air before hitting the venturies.
 
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Both carbs are ~600 cfm IIRC ( might be something ford specific like 565cfm or other size ) back to front & vac secondaries due to the need for dizzy clearance. The 'plastic' box if you look closely has a tube about 3" in dia on each side ends in only a 1/2 circle that connects with ducting in the rear clip for air, most of the other MKIV's pics Ive seen have alloy airboxs
 

D. Nye

Lifetime Supporter
Les,
The clear air box was used originally on the two Holman Moody prepared cars, J7 & J8. You can google to find more photos of those cars. There are two 3"+ clear intakes on each side of the box. These connect to the side intakes on the rear clam shell.
The induction system is normally two Holley carbs on a tunnel port intake. Ford was using the 427 side oiler with tunnel port heads and intakes for all the NASCAR engines back in the sixties. There are SAE papers outlining the engine development Ford did if interested.
Many of these replicas use the neat details from both HM and Shelby cars which is a dead giveaway that it's a replica if you know what you are looking at.
Don
 
Happened to trip over a parts list this afternoon..
Dual 4bbl tunnel port carb combos.
...C5*** part # 780cfm each ( different carb #s for front & rear )
...C8*** part # 652cfm each ( """")
...C6*** part # 715cfm each
 
J10, the second car acquired from Ford by the Agapou Brothers along with J9, was the chassis that was actually raced in the CanAm series, driven by a number of drivers including Revson, Elford, Cannon amongst others (and without much success). Of all of the J Car chassis in their various configuratons, J10 was the most raced chassis, coming 3rd in a Can Am race in Japan.

All of the J car chassis were originally built for Ford with the sole intention of being used to win LeMans. When the French changed the rules following the 1967 running of LeMans the cars were effectively outlawed and obsolete. J9 and J10 were designated as G7A to contest the Group 7 CanAm races. Ford did significant testing on J9 and J10 was a spare chassis sold to the Agapou Brothers to develop into a CanAm race car. Thus, the “A” in the G7A designation.

J10 is being restored in MKIV configuration and is currently off for paint.

It’s been a long chapter in bringing this car back to life.
 

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Here is a copy of the respective information on J9 & J10 as contained in the recent publication; The Ford J-Car, America's Greatest Sports Prototype by A. Wayne Ferens 2012
 

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Like Jim says the MKIV is called a Ford MKIV. With no references to Ford GT or Ford GT40.
It is true that the J-car was introduced as a successor to the MKII big blocks. Its inception had nothing to do with the GT40 development. It was more to do with the natural fact that a design started in 1963 would have not been competitive 4 years later in racing terms.
It was also brought about because to the regulations introduced under the 'J' appendix which among other things allowed the front screen size to be changed.
The 1967 JWAE Mirage M1 showed how this rule could be applied to a GT40. Since they used unnumbered GT40 chassis.
The obvious last Ford official backed GT40 variant was the 1967 MKIIB and this variant of the Ford GT/GT40 family was used as a backup for the MKIV's because the MKII was too heavy to be competitive that why the J/MKIV was brought in.
The 1968/69 Gulf success happened because of luck and reliability more than anything. It was both unexpected and a bonus to Ford. Parts that were held back by Ford were made available to JWAE. In 1968 of the three team Le Mans cars GT40P/1074 the ex Mirage was the fastest. The update GT40P/1084 the old updated GT40P/1004 1965 car the slowest. And GT40P/1075 in the middle!!!
Regards Allan

Attached is the Ford Motor Company Press and the title is "FORD GT MARK IV -- GENERAL DESCRIPTION". It clearly states the MK-IV was a Ford GT MK IV. It is a 2 page press release and I have only included Page 1
 

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J10, the second car acquired from Ford by the Agapou Brothers along with J9, was the chassis that was actually raced in the CanAm series, driven by a number of drivers including Revson, Elford, Cannon amongst others (and without much success). Of all of the J Car chassis in their various configuratons, J10 was the most raced chassis, coming 3rd in a Can Am race in Japan.

All of the J car chassis were originally built for Ford with the sole intention of being used to win LeMans. When the French changed the rules following the 1967 running of LeMans the cars were effectively outlawed and obsolete. J9 and J10 were designated as G7A to contest the Group 7 CanAm races. Ford did significant testing on J9 and J10 was a spare chassis sold to the Agapou Brothers to develop into a CanAm race car. Thus, the “A” in the G7A designation.

J10 is being restored in MKIV configuration and is currently off for paint.

It’s been a long chapter in bringing this car back to life.

Hi Jim
While I like the fact that J-9 and J-10 are being run as MKIV's rather than the Can Am G-7A cars they were built as. I think we forget that the originally program (and you can correct me if I am wrong) when it started was Fords Total Performance program. And this meant that Indy and Nascar as well as Can am and I think Dragster racing (i.e. Cobra Dragonsnake)were covered to promote Fords image. Ford were committed to Can Am racing long before the MKIV came about. With the clumbersome 1965 X-1 GT/110 a big block with the Ford GT roadster tail and the 1965 long Le Mans nose of of GT/106 complete with lights!
The 1966 J-2 the Can Am variant of the J -car that took the life of Ken Miles was meant for Can Am racing long before the conception of the G-7A. Along with the fact that the 1967 Holman and Moody Honker and the 1967 Jerry Titus T-10 (known as the King Cobra or Cougar) we also part of Fords assault on the Can Am. So the French rules that made the MKIV obsolete had only a period part into Fords entry into Can Am they were already commited. And not all the J-chassis were meant for Le Mans they used any of Fords program where they thought success would come.
Regards Allan
 
Attached is the Ford Motor Company Press and the title is "FORD GT MARK IV -- GENERAL DESCRIPTION". It clearly states the MK-IV was a Ford GT MK IV. It is a 2 page press release and I have only included Page 1

OK and you can correct me on this. The original J-Car was called Ford GTP when it was launch at the Le Mans trials. Because it was a sports prototype under the J regulations
As your Press release states it was a new car and not a improved GT40. All the MKIV were J-cars. Why the Ford GT? I think it a generatic terms since it could be applied to any of Fords cars especially if they were Grand Turismo road cars. Also it meant a connection by the public to Fords road cars. A 1964 Ford Cortinas could be described as a Ford GT so could a 1964 Mustang. When the Ford GT40 was homolagated in 1965 four group 4 racing it was officially know by that name. When for most of that time it was running as a prototype? Perhaps this could be linked to the 7 MKIII and 31 MK1 road cars? Witness Ferraris successful conning of the Authorities with his 1962 Ferrari GTO when only 39 were made (that why he added 'O' after GT for omolagation). Or the fact that the 1967 Mirage M1 Spa win was not counted for Fords Manufacture points. Because it was a Prototype and not homolagated even when it used an unnumbered GT40 chassis.
The MKIV was as everyone knows a rebodied J-car. It was never a car design from scratch; Remington and his team performed a miracle transforming the J-car into a success in a couple of months! That's why there is no mention of it is in the press release. Never admit a failure. It was never a GT car always a prototype. I have heared it called a Ford GT40 MKIV; a Ford GT MKIV or a Ford MKIV and its the last one that describes it accurately.
I also have a press release for a MKII just saying a Ford MKII not a Ford GT40 MKII or Ford GT MKII so there are inconsistances. If the actual Ford GT is true the Ford MKIV it would have been racing against Ferrari 275 GTB, Corvettes, Lotus Elans, etc in the GT class!!
Regards Allan
 
Hi Jim
While I like the fact that J-9 and J-10 are being run as MKIV's rather than the Can Am G-7A cars they were built as. I think we forget that the originally program (and you can correct me if I am wrong) when it started was Fords Total Performance program. And this meant that Indy and Nascar as well as Can am and I think Dragster racing (i.e. Cobra Dragonsnake)were covered to promote Fords image. Ford were committed to Can Am racing long before the MKIV came about. With the clumbersome 1965 X-1 GT/110 a big block with the Ford GT roadster tail and the 1965 long Le Mans nose of of GT/106 complete with lights!
The 1966 J-2 the Can Am variant of the J -car that took the life of Ken Miles was meant for Can Am racing long before the conception of the G-7A. Along with the fact that the 1967 Holman and Moody Honker and the 1967 Jerry Titus T-10 (known as the King Cobra or Cougar) we also part of Fords assault on the Can Am. So the French rules that made the MKIV obsolete had only a period part into Fords entry into Can Am they were already commited. And not all the J-chassis were meant for Le Mans they used any of Fords program where they thought success would come.
Regards Allan

We did not have a choice. We purchased J-10 with a MK-IV body many years ago. The G-7A body was long gone. G-7A was never competitive in CanAm

Regarding what Ford called the program. If you have a Ford GT40 MK-I, MK-II and MK-III and then You make a new car and keeps the sequence (MK-IV). It is logical is part of the same group car. Officially Ford never register the name GT40 and it was registered much later by other. Ford built the new GT it was too expensive to use the GT40 name. Ford Press Release is clear that the MK-IV was part of the Ford GT Program to win Le Mans but this time with a US built car with american drivers.

The car that Ken Miles crashed was not a CanAm car. J-2 had the unstable breadwagon body.
 
We did not have a choice. We purchased J-10 with a MK-IV body many years ago. The G-7A body was long gone. G-7A was never competitive in CanAm

Regarding what Ford called the program. If you have a Ford GT40 MK-I, MK-II and MK-III and then You make a new car and keeps the sequence (MK-IV). It is logical is part of the same group car. Officially Ford never register the name GT40 and it was registered much later by other. Ford built the new GT it was too expensive to use the GT40 name. Ford Press Release is clear that the MK-IV was part of the Ford GT Program to win Le Mans but this time with a US built car with american drivers.

The car that Ken Miles crashed was not a CanAm car. J-2 had the unstable breadwagon body.

Hi Jim
I was not getting at the fact that J-9 and J-10 were going to be rebodied as MKIVs.
As for Fords Total Performance Program sure the J-car/MKIV was part of the program. But it was not a GT40 It started a a parrallel design concept when the MKII became too heavy and uncompedititive. The last GT40 being the 1967 MKIIB running at the same time as the MKIV at Le Mans
Sure the name of the MKIV was sequential. But that does not mean the MKIV is a GT40! In fact it was to be called the MKIII but the road car got there first. And I forgot there is no such thing as a MKI as I have been told but I use it in retrospect. But not all racing car type numbers follow that rule what about Lola T70 endurance racer, T90 Indy etc.
Whatever the press releases said never mentioned that the original J car had proved a failure and that the MKIV was never designed as a MKIV from scratch! But used the J car as the basis for its existence.
Sure Ford wanted an all American car and crew to win Le Mans . Henry Ford II regarded the 1966 win as Anglo American car with New Zealand drivers. The fact that the winning GT40P/1046 was painted in New Zealand colour scheme did not help either.
Also if Ford never had the rights to the name GT40 who did they paid when the GT40 production run started in 1965? And how could they have homolagated it with the authorities for Group 4 racing in 1965 without the use of the name? I have copy of the original GT40 brochure from 1966 and its not the MKIII on the cover but them MKI why did no one sue them if they were using the GT40 name without authority? And although Ford had officially pulled out after the rule changes and succeeding in there aim of winning at Le Mans with all American car and drivers. It must of unoffically backed the JWAE assault on 1968/69 Le Mans with the Gulf sponsored much modified GT40's why was not the cars renamed MKV's or MKIB's???
I think you will have to discuss the type of car J-2 was with Ronnie Spain it was not the Breadvan as it had a different shape. And I know the claws on J-1 were detachable.
But I quote from Ronnies book, "J-2 was built to CanAm configuration to make use of the late season CanAm Challenge Championship as extra race evaulation mileage. Unfortunately J-2 never made it as far as the opening round, as after its initial shakedown at Kingman, Arizona, it was totally destroyed at Riverside on 17 August in the testing accident which claimed the life of the inimitable California-based Englishman Ken Miles".
So while the overall push was for Le Mans things that resulting in more testing would have been considered and explored as in J-2 case.
Regards Allan
 
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J10, G7A 1969 Mid Ohio

This is a photo I took of J10 in 1969 at MidOhio where it did not start the race.
 

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Hello

Often presented as the picture of the car with which Ken Miles had his fatal accident, this image raises several questions:
-Why J7 on the side
mystery J.jpg
?
-It's the only picture of a J with an air intake of this shape on the roof.
-The cutout of the door is special.
-the three people do not seem to be known, they are not a priori people from Shelby.

So who can identify this car and put a good legend to this photo?
 
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