Lola T70 Spyder Mk I replica comfort

[Brian Kissel]

Well said Bruce !!!

Regards Brian

 

[Neil]

Neil - My 935 tribute is still very capable on the track, but makes use of its license plate more often than it's track roundels. Yes, I have backed it off a bit by dropping spring rates 100 pounds per corner, revalving the JZ shocks, and running Michelin Sport 2's. I never intended to race this car - boulevardiering and track days only. And, for those purposes, she is sublime. Now, am I a poseur because I love the purposeful look, because I enjoy the ritual of 6 point belts, because the sound and vibration and endless power are stimulating? I think not - I am an enthusiast, enjoying my car while, everywhere I drive, my car pays homage to the greatest production-based racecar in history. With the Lola, I am doing the same thing. Yes, I hope to "race" with my elbows in at several vintage events, but my primary motivation is participation, not victory. Because my Lola is open and simpler, it can run truer to track form, with few performance compromises, while still remaining acceptable for the street. Remember - neither of these vehicles are designed for grand touring. They are comfortable and appropriate for short trips to shows, cruises, restaurants and the like. This is what I love about cars - they give us freedom of motion AND expression, and fun while we're utilizing both.

There is no "right" or "wrong"; it is a matter of personal choice. That was simply my opinion, others will differ. After all, some like low riders, pickup trucks, and "art cars".

 

[Fred/Belgium]

Hi kelly,

Chris Fox in UK just made one for road/race use for an American guy.
He makes the continuation Lola cars.
Not cheap but state of the art.
Let me know if you are interested

Grtz
fred

 

[Randy]

I'm building a Mclaren M6 gt coupe. rivet correct car. Would fill the bill!

 

[Neil]

I'm building a Mclaren M6 gt coupe. rivet correct car. Would fill the bill!

Nice project...pictures?

I wonder why no one has ever built a replica of the Lola Mark 6 GT? It is an attractive car.

 

[Bruce K]

The Mark 6 was the reason Hank the Deuce bought Lola for 2 years. During that time, he reverse
engineered the Mark 6 into the Ford GT40, and went on to win four consecutive Le Mans victories. There were a number of proportion and construction issues with the Mark 6, which were rectified with the T70 spider and later coupe. I presume Gardner Douglas and other firms replicated the T70 spider and coupe designs because they were prettier and more advanced. The T70 spider is one of history's most beautiful sports cars, in my eyes rivaling the Ferrari 250 GTO and Alfa Romeo Typo 33 Stradale.

 

[Neil]

Yes, but why has no one replicated such a beautiful shape? Put whatever you want for a chassis under it but it is the body style that is outstanding. OK, the cockpit is small but not everyone is over 6' tall. The De Tomaso Mangusta falls into the same category, in my opinion.

 

[Bruce K]

Neil - you have presented a number of misunderstandings. The T70 shape is indeed gorgeous, and has been replicated by a number of firms including Race Car Replicas in the USA (RCR); Gardner-Douglas in the UK; Sbarro in Switzerland produced 13 copies; Broadley Automotive in the UK; and Universal Products in South Africa, to name a few. The cockpit in original T70's is plentiful for the driver, accommodating 6 footers and more with ease, but like nearly all Can-Am cars of the period, very tight quarters for any passenger. Can-Am rules required a passenger seat, so the race cars retained a stronger similarity to street sports cars. In order to minimize the penalty of an unused passenger seat, Can-Am constructors were allowed to install kiddie seats for the passengers. This allowed a narrower overall cockpit, with more room for fuel in the rocker panel area. I am 6 foot 200 pounds and cannot fit into any of the Can-Am passenger seats I have tried on.

The chassis under my car is a reversion to the Mk I chassis, which was aluminum monocoque incorporating a steel ladder frame. John Gyann, the constructor of my car, utilized the the Mk I chassis concept to provide greater strength for road use. He also employed proven C4 Corvette architecture at the wheels (uprights, spindles and more) for added strength and serviceability. Remember - John's brief called for a race car that could handle the boulevard as well as smooth, perfect race tracks. Gyann was aware that John Surtees nearly lost his life due to the lightweight, cantilevered spindles in the unique front end of original T70's. Original T70's employed inboard front brakes, made possible by a cantilevered wheel suspension which was prone to failure. Surtees lost a front corner at the end of a straight at Mosport on 9/25/65, and bore evidences of the mash-up for the rest of this life. Gyann further modified the chassis in my replica by widening the cockpit, allowing full-sized seats for both occupants. Thus, my fuel cell space is reduced to 14 gallons per side, as opposed to the original approx 25. Otherwise, my car is quite similar to a Mk I, though a bit heavier due to added steel in the frame and the C4 wheel assemblies. In fact, my T70 has been granted logbooks and has participated in HSR and SVRA vintage events, including Road Atlanta's illustrious Walter Mitty. It has also won a few events, though it has only 495 miles on the odo since new and has never been campaigned intensively. On my car, the hood is original, the cowl is heritage, and the balance of the panels were molded from originals. First images are of my car are current livery. Second are

e intended livery:

 

[Ian Anderson]

Hi Bruce…..lovely cars

Another company that replicated them was Mirauder in South Africa

ian

 

[Neil]

Neil - you have presented a number of misunderstandings. The T70 shape is indeed gorgeous, and has been replicated by a number of firms including Race Car Replicas in the USA (RCR); Gardner-Douglas in the UK; Sbarro in Switzerland produced 13 copies; Broadley Automotive in the UK; and Universal Products in South Africa, to name a few. The cockpit in original T70's is plentiful for the driver, accommodating 6 footers and more with ease, but like nearly all Can-Am cars of the period, very tight quarters for any passenger. Can-Am rules required a passenger seat, so the race cars retained a stronger similarity to street sports cars. In order to minimize the penalty of an unused passenger seat, Can-Am constructors were allowed to install kiddie seats for the passengers. This allowed a narrower overall cockpit, with more room for fuel in the rocker panel area. I am 6 foot 200 pounds and cannot fit into any of the Can-Am passenger seats I have tried on.

The chassis under my car is a reversion to the Mk I chassis, which was aluminum monocoque incorporating a steel ladder frame. John Gyann, the constructor of my car, utilized the the Mk I chassis concept to provide greater strength for road use. He also employed proven C4 Corvette architecture at the wheels (uprights, spindles and more) for added strength and serviceability. Remember - John's brief called for a race car that could handle the boulevard as well as smooth, perfect race tracks. Gyann was aware that John Surtees nearly lost his life due to the lightweight, cantilevered spindles in the unique front end of original T70's. Original T70's employed inboard front brakes, made possible by a cantilevered wheel suspension which was prone to failure. Surtees lost a front corner at the end of a straight at Mosport on 9/25/65, and bore evidences of the mash-up for the rest of this life. Gyann further modified the chassis in my replica by widening the cockpit, allowing full-sized seats for both occupants. Thus, my fuel cell space is reduced to 14 gallons per side, as opposed to the original approx 25. Otherwise, my car is quite similar to a Mk I, though a bit heavier due to added steel in the frame and the C4 wheel assemblies. In fact, my T70 has been granted logbooks and has participated in HSR and SVRA vintage events, including Road Atlanta's illustrious Walter Mitty. It has also won a few events, though it has only 495 miles on the odo since new and has never been campaigned intensively. On my car, the hood is original, the cowl is heritage, and the balance of the panels were molded from originals. First images are of my car are current livery. Second areView attachment 126670View attachment 126671View attachment 126672View attachment 126673View attachment 126674View attachment 126675View attachment 126676View attachment 126677View attachment 126678e intended livery:

Good information and nice pictures but re-read my post. I was referring to the Lola GT Mark 6 GT.

 

[Tom]

Good information and nice pictures but re-read my post. I was referring to the Lola GT Mark 6 GT.

I think you have answered your own question as to why there aren't Mark6 GT reps out there - too small. At the risk of generalizing, most gents in a position to spend the time and money on building a replica are older, consequently probably a bit heavier and less agile than they used to be. The Mark 6 never achieved mythic status of the GT40, so the chance of someone embarking on a build of an even more space constrained package is small. Cool as they are, it's still a tough proposition.

 

[Neil]

I think you have answered your own question as to why there aren't Mark6 GT reps out there - too small. At the risk of generalizing, most gents in a position to spend the time and money on building a replica are older, consequently probably a bit heavier and less agile than they used to be. The Mark 6 never achieved mythic status of the GT40, so the chance of someone embarking on a build of an even more space constrained package is small. Cool as they are, it's still a tough proposition.

True but not everyone is 6'2". Having such a unique replica as a Mk 6GT would be really appealing to me... if I could fit into it.
No offence intended but replica GT40s, while not exactly "dime a dozen", are fairly common these days.

 

[Bruce K]

Neil, I'll bet you are a nice man, but you have a controversial way of handling a pen. You managed to call me a "poseur" because I enabled a track car to be used comfortably on the street. Now you have labelled GT40 replicas, many of which are exacting and beautiful, as "dime a dozen". The reality is, there are more Ferrari 458's and 488's running around than precise GT40 replicas, and quality GT40 replica resale prices are competitive with many Prancing Horse models. $150K to $250K resale value hardly qualifies as "dime a dozen". Preceding your offensive statements with the phrase "No offense intended" is like saying "This is NOT a robbery, but give me all your money!"

Original GT40's and original Lola T70's are now too rare and expensive for most folks to own, and exposing them to loss poses significant historical risk, as well. That's exactly where a quality replica slots in - enabling the driver to experience the controls, the acceleration and deacceleration, the turn-in, while also enabling onlookers to experience the awesome sights and sounds of these thunderous machines, even if they can't afford time or money for a trip to Goodwood. Cars are about freedom, and freedom is the American way.

 

[Neil]

Are you deliberately looking for a fight? For crying out loud, READ the posts. I said "...while not exactly "dime a dozen", are fairly common these days." Do you deny this? OK if you do, just don't purposely mis-quote for the sake of an argument.

It's Christmas, after all!

 

[Brian Kissel]

Ok, boys time for a truce. Bruce is not looking for a fight he is stating facts as he sees it. I do believe that Bruce has some good points however. Neil, no further comments on this thread please. There are ways to compliment people’s builds other than, that will work but the way I did it is like this…..
Regards Brian

 

[Bruce K]

Neil, your words are your words, and I suggest you soften your approach. I addressed your use of the moderating phrase "While not exactly a" preceding your "dime a dozen" disparagement. It is still insulting to owners of rigorous GT40 replicas, and is quite similar overall to my example of "While this is NOT a robbery, please give me all your money!" And, of course, you referred to me as a "poseur" in another post. It appears that you are trying to slip in insults, and then reacting with shock when people repudiate them.

I think it is you who is looking for a dispute, and it is you who should reconsider your approach. I am considering paying for membership in this forum, but you are not making a positive impression on me.

 

[Bruce K]

Brian, my last past was being composed while you were posting your response. I would be very pleased to terminate the personal attacks and demeaning lines of the discussion. However, many collateral subjects, like possible Lola Mk 6 replicas, and the purpose of replicas in our enthusiast community, are valid, and deserve further exploration.

 

[Neil]

Mum

 

[Brian Kissel]

Bruce, I agree and thin the Lola mk6 is a beautiful car. If we didn’t all want choices, we would still be driving model T’s !! Carry on.

Regard Brian

 

[Bruce K]

I agree that the Lola Mk 6 is a very pretty design. I was fortunate to see it in person at the recent Eyes on Design Concours, celebrated this year on June 19 2022. The committee asked me to show two cars:: My 935, and and an incredible Caterham that I owned until recently. My Caterham was an R400 Superlight upgraded to R500 performance specs, but its greatest strength was cosmetics. The nose cone, all four fenders, the dash, all the mirrors, the turn signal nacelles, back up light, license plate surround and more were all naked carbon fiber finished in high gloss.. That little 1,125 pound missile was both exotic and in perfect condition, and won the "Design of Distinction" award. Down the line, in another category, the Lola Mk 6 was displayed. It, too, was in great shape, especially for a car that Ford disassembled down to the hardware, so everything could be learned concerning its construction. The idea that this car constituted the staircase which Ford ascended to four consecutive overall Le Mans victories seemed inconceivable, impossible - but was wholly true. Constructors in the know at that time, like Broadley, Bizzarrini and Shelby, recognized that our big American V8's were both torquier and more dependable than those gorgeous, aria-singing Italian V12's, and thus Chevy and Ford power were utilized quite successfully. In fact, until the endlessly turboed Porsche 917, American V8's dominated the upper echelons of international racing, including Can-Am.

I sold the Caterham to make room in my garage for the Lola T70 Spider. I own three sports cars, and this is a comfortable spot for me. All the cars are driven adequately, and I have sufficient time to properly maintain them. There is great opportunity to make money in our hobby by buying, storing and selling collectible cars, but, speaking only for me, I don't want cars I don't have enough time to drive.