New to SL-C: PartII

The journey continues.

As mentioned before, I'm interested in building a street-going exotic. Looked at another mfgs offering in the same space and wasn't completely satisfied, so I'm now looking at an SL-C.

I see that a fair number of cars have been sold (50+), many (maybe most) of which are destined to be track cars. Haven't seen much feedback yet on road-going cars. My intent is to use the car as a semi-daily driver. So my questions are mostly around usability of the end product at this point.

I haven't seen many interior shots that included a sound system. My assumption is that a double-din unit would fit in the dash panel within the "inverted-U" space. Is that true? Follow-on question is, can the interior be sufficiently treated to even make a sound system worthwhile? And is there room anywhere to locate a pair of speakers?

My other more important concern is around engine bay heat and engine heat in general. I view the two as separate things. Through dialogue with some that have a build underway its become obvious that the engine bay is open underneath. I'm not sure if that's good or bad. I'm a little concerned that at freeway speeds all sorts of nasties could get sucked up into the engine bay. Admittedly this is an uneducated perception. I assume managing engine bay temps is easier with the bottom open, but if one elected to close it up, could this car still idle in traffic without overheating, or getting so warm in the engine bay that everything non-metal starts melting? Or is this a challenge even with the bottom of the bay open?

Minor question. . . license plate mounting (brackets, lights, etc.)? Every car I've owned out here went without front plates until CHP or local police pull me over. Then its a matter of paying $25, installing the plate and proving to the CHP that its been handled. I imagine that I'll be pulled over in the first 15 seconds in an SL-C. How are you builders dealing with a front plate? Just attaching it flush to the hood? Vertical bracket in front? Paying the recurring tickets? Lucky enough to live in the one of the ~40 states that doesn't require a front plate? For the rear, is a bracket and light provided or is that simple add-on up to the builder to source? I suppose with the street tail this is essentially a non-issue, but I'm not sure I'd go that route yet. Still studying that.

I saw a youtube clip of an SL-C in the rain so obviously the car seals up relatively well. Can't fathom that I'd plan on driving this car in the rain, but weather can change. Is water through the roof scoop a consideration at all?

Other random finds. . . .looks like cutting and configuring the fuel tank to enable gauge readings of fuel supply is up to the builder. No provision for this is made as delivered. Water pump will need to be modified for an LS-based engine to fit. Coolant fill/overflow/catch cans are up to the builder. Coolant tubes come with the kit. Connections (welded or silicone) are up to the builder to provision. Is powder coating of aluminum panels a factory option, or can they removed for powdercoating post-delivery?

Price on the Ricardo seemed reasonable until I had to up it 25-30% for clutch, starter, flywheel, etc. Note to Fran: Can you keep working on that Mendeola mockup? Could save me ~$4-5k.

Most of the other aspects of the build, although challenging, fall in to categories with which I'm already familiar and have at least mentally digested, but I'm sure more questions will surface as I continue reading through the build logs.

The final question then is, am I nuts for thinking this car can be driven with reasonable reliability 6-8k miles per year?

Thanks for your indulgence.

Cheers,

Ruth
 
Ruth,

Those are really great questions!

First off, most are works in progress. I'm a team of one builder. AND, my car and shop are currently separated by about 330 miles. So, my build will be going slower than I wanted. But every time I see my car it keeps me inspired to get my shop moved!

Cam is a great example builder. He plans to use his on the street to terrorize the greater Dallas area. His build is "by the book". Despite this, he has many great solutions that we all incorporate into our builds. Usability? Sorta like having any uber-exotic trained for street use.

Not sure a double DIN will work.

The Lizard Skin that Cam uses has very high heat reflectivity, I'm using the gold foil, gold Mylar combination. The interior heat reflectivity and sound deadening can be addressed by various materials...I will go "Caveman". My engine bay is partially closed at the bottom. But most modern cars are open underneath. I am running engine oil and transmission coolers (and a Parker Pumper for me :thumbsup:). I may gold foil the interior of the engine clamshell. BTW, I tested some gold mylar material, gold paint and the gold racing materials with a paint removal heat gun and both the racing gold foil and the mylar passed with flying colors. Even the paint lowered the sensitive "hand on metal test" to a tolerable level.

Not sure about the front license plate location but maybe Cam has some ideas. I know the Viper guys have a flip up front license plate carrier. I used to attach the front for my Viper (occasionally run on the street to terrorize the community) on the passenger sunvisor. I had many nice encounters with the Texas DPS, County Sheriffs, etc. with NO TICKETS.

If you use the throttle other than an "ON-OFF" switch, you can manage the rain.

I went with a fuel cell.

The coolant expansion tank is not included but readily available...I use the Moroso can on a polyethelene spacer.

Try checking with Max at Four-Star Ford for pricing of the clutch, flywheel, starter.

Your nuts not to. :thumbsup:

Doc
 
Reliability depends on luck and the builder - Fran only makes the chassis and body and suspension parts ..... so what's going to fail? The chassis crack in half, lol? If the fuel pump goes, that's on you (and the fuel pump manufacturer). Electric stops working, same concept. You forget to tighten the brake calipers and they fly off and damage the wheel, same concept. Choose a crappy enginer builder and it goes boom, etc... etc...

Personally, I wouldn't daily drive any kit car - several reasons, on-the-street safety being the biggest. In a cobra, you get t-boned by a 5000lb SUV and you're pretty much dead. Here, you have a little bit more protection, but when your roof-line is even with the bumper of a honda civic, um, yea, chances are if you get rear-ended by that SUV it'll drive over you like you were a speed bump.

If you do want to daily it you'd definitely need the lift kit to make it over bumps and obstacles.
 
Ruth,
P-Nut, another SL-C builder is planning on using a mini PC to drive the interior sound system, back up camera etc...in fact the black Aussie car pictured elsewhere has the very same system.
We have installed a sound system in a customers car with four speaker boxes...not my taste as I like to hear the 8 track with a volume control under my right foot...but thats just me..
Is the under-engine bay completely covered in your daily driver??..there is plenty of open space to allow cooling air to pass through ...even the beloved GT40 and Ford GT have engine bay temp issues but they have been overcome in many ways and its just one of the facts of having a mid-engined car.
The street tail actually has a license plate mount moulded in...Doc's Viper flip up idea is a great solution for the front...
We have been experimenting with an OEM style plastic header tank and it works brilliantly with no issues at all...100deg ambient temps on track with the car being quite heavily beaten...the volume is large enough that the max and min range of coolant never exceeds either limit....

The full sender mount is incorporated into the tanks.

The aluminum bulkhead panels could be powder coated but when an interior is installled they are not visible...they are all drilled and tapped style mounts not rivets too...dont forget there is no riveting of ANY panels required anywhere on the SL-C

As mentioned earlier we can provide fully seam welded coolant tubes and have done so just recently to a new customer.

The Mendeola has already been test fitted but my concern is that there are very very very few even in existence ..never mind being used in a street driven car on a regular basis...I know the GTM-R guys are using one and their leased deal makes it a good choice for them...I will reserve judgement until I have driven a car with one...(not knocking Mendeola at all..BUT RICARDOS ARE AWESOME)

Ruth ...remember this car will have your personality built in , as you finish the kit...
 
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Ruth,
A standard LS3 (Plenty of HP for a hot street car) with a G50-50 is a viable alternative, so is the 930 gearbox. I plan on minimal heat insulation other than the engine bulkhead/fuel tank area (until I see if there is a reason to do otherwise). I am the process of installing the mentioned OEM style header tank. I believe it is the better method, plenty of capacity too. No need to powdercoat unles you really want to. I simply polished the top of the footbox and radiator support panels and got carried away and did the rear chassis too. Looks great! I may powdercoat the wing support panels rather than paint.
 
Reliability depends on luck and the builder

Sure. . .to a point. Having scanned the field, all the designs have some inherent compromise. More so in a few cases to the extent that they are just destined to fail with regularity. For example, as designed the FFR GTM windows are virtually impossible to seal properly, fuel tank configuration will most likely leak, until very recently the rear suspension mounts will fail, and the cooling system as designed is fundamentally flawed. All these things CAN be fixed (time, money), but have design flaws. I'd at least like to know that if I build it as Fran intended that it will work, and work well.

Of course the fact that the SL-C windows are fixed is by itself an inherent limitation, and although getting through cardkey protected garages will be a pain, I can live with that one.

If you do want to daily it you'd definitely need the lift kit to make it over bumps and obstacles

Lift kit? Does Fran provide that, or is that sourced by the builder via 3rd party?
 
Lift kits...We stock them and are the only retail dealer other than the manufacturer...

Infact we are installing one tomorrow on the SEMA car...to showcase it as a last minute request of the manufacturer...

Dont forget we also have a two piece window option, where the lower section is easily removed...

One very important thing to keep in mind is that we will do custom fabrication in house, when and where required /requested by our customers...this is something that many "template" type manufacturers will not do...period...and the SL-C was always meant to be able to accomodate things like rotary , Lexus, Ford, Chevy, Porsche , Subaru engines and multiple transaxle choices...and it does so quite easily...this is another multiple choice option that other companies dont want to deal with...and wont touch with a barge pole..
 
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I almost began my build with a new crate Chevy SB 383 that I had at the time. Sold it for beans and purchased the LS1. The Mazda rotary was also a consideration at the time. In hindsight, the LS1 presents a few different challenges than the other LS series engines.
 
For example, as designed the FFR GTM windows are virtually impossible to seal properly, fuel tank configuration will most likely leak, until very recently the rear suspension mounts will fail, and the cooling system as designed is fundamentally flawed. All these things CAN be fixed (time, money), but have design flaws. I'd at least like to know that if I build it as Fran intended that it will work, and work well.

I see what you're saying.

To me though, as a builder, I wouldn't put that under reliability - if anything comes broke/designed to fail from the factory I would just re-design it and fix it. That should be a standard tool in a builders toolkit.

Like the GTM fuel tank issue - I can't believe it's taken 100+ builds for somebody (Shane) to "fix" it. If I were building a GTM I'd have given it to my machinist and have him fab up a setup that works ... I don't put that under reliability, I put that under shitty design. Or the clutch cable issue on cobras - they have a tendency to pull in near the headers and melt. Yet somehow it took 6000+cobras before somebody ( ;) ) had a clutch cable bracket machined (which a lot of people are now using)

So from that perspective, nothing really jumps out to me as bad. I've re-designed a few things along the way to suit my build path, but overal I"d say I've used 98% of the stuff Fran supplies because it works well and in the intended fashion.

Unlike FFR where I threw out 98% of the stuff since most of it is garbage. E.g., windshields that crack (~I~ (and my engineering friend) was the person who found the flaw with them and go them to admit there was a flaw in the curvature of the glass), trunk hinges that will break and damage the body, etc... etc...

I have no regrets about purchasing Fran's stuff. I'll be definately be buying another kit in the future from him when I finish my SLC...heck, I don't know any other manufacturer who'll go out and get a carb'd intake to test fit just because 1 customer wants to use a carb on their LS engine, lol :thumbsup:
 
I REALLY dislike adapters, the Ricardo needs an adapter to hook it to an LS. Had Mendeola actually been able to deliver thier Chevy bellhousing transaxle designed for our kind of car when I was looking I would have one now. The standard response everytime I called was - "It will be available in 6 months", that gets old if you hear it enough times. Unless a person can actually buy one now, today, then it's not really an option.
 
Unless a person can actually buy one now, today, then it's not really an option.

Available now. ~$7600 for trans, clutch, shifter, starter, and all fluids. No adapter. But. . . . not capable of handling 600HP if that's your thing. LS3 power yes.

I'm not saying its THE solution for everyone, but I like the affordability.
 
A bit late to the party, just trying to see what questions haven't been answered.

You can totally seal the interior from water ingress. But you will need to spend the time to seal the body where it fits over the chassis and also spend the time on the door seals etc.

With the roof scoop, all of the Aus spec cars come supplied with an inner duct panel that seals the roof scoop off from the interior. It runs from front to back. Easy to make up yourself. Also assists air flow. The interior panel that is offered as an option is best left as a cosmetic panel you cover in leather etc. By using it as a cosmetic panel, it allows you to install interior lights, reverse cameras etc on it without worrying about moisture etc.
 
Ruth

Just wanted to say thanks for being so inquisitive. You are getting answers to a lot of questions that others have (including myself). It's nice to have a more-or-less centralized thread for this information. My plan is also for a street-only car. And, welcome to the forum, since I have not actually welcomed you before.

Eric
 
I chatted with Ian at Mendeola today (very open and helpful) and I feel it only right to inform anyone interested,that you should check with them about pricing for their transaxle packages as the FFR $7600 price quoted is not an available unit...the complete package with clutch, starter etc etc is actually their stage 2 unit (no stage 1 exists yet...only on paper...similar to the Quaife situation previously). and as such the price for a package is over 13k...
The SDR 2 package may well be a great package ...but certainly not in the bargain $7600 price range...
 
Ruth,

Sorry ...I talked with Ian directly and have the word from the horses mouth...

I recommend that you call him too and have him explain the whole circumstance to you...all will become clear....and you will see that the $7600 price point is only a "possible" deal at this point...again...just like the Quaife deal that never was...and is something that FF is dictating to Mendeola...not the other way around...

Mendeola are meeting with FF at SEMA and I will visit with them also
 
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Ruth,

Sorry ...I talked with Ian directly and have the word from the horses mouth...

I recommend that you call him too and have him explain the whole circumstance to you...all will become clear....and you will see that the $7600 price point is only a "possible" deal at this point...again...just like the Quaife deal that never was...and is something that FF is dictating to Mendeola...not the other way around...

Mendeola are meeting with FF at SEMA and I will visit with them also

Darn it! Don't get me wrong. I don't doubt what you are saying. Seems like the folks at that other mfg aren't being completely transparent. Just seems like a great opportunity to drive down the cost of builds.

Not that I carry ANY influence, but I'll call them just to let them know that customers. . . well. . .at least one. . . are out there if they build it.
 
Not that I carry ANY influence, but I'll call them just to let them know that customers. . . well. . .at least one. . . are out there if they build it.

Last I heard tooling costs for making transaxles was very pricey - it wouldn't be worth it unless there was some application well beyond the kit car market (like Mendeola and sand rails ... i always though sand rails was a really small market, but my friends tell me it's massive)
 
Just to put some numbers to that statement, Alex, Ian and Mike Mendeola have informed me that their original transaxle, code named the MD4 IIRC, sold more than 9000 units. Small in comparison to production car numbers for an OEM like Ford or GM, but considering that these were all going into custom built vehicles, for the most part, that's a pretty big number, and by far, the majority of the market share for off road "buggies".

They've been building transaxles for over 30 years, which I also didn't know before chatting with Ian and Mike, and judging by the two products I have used from them, you will not be disappointed by their transaxles performance. These things are so over built for what we do, due to the fact that off road racing is so much more brutal with shock loading, that all the stated numbers, as far as ratings posted on their website, IMHO, can be considered very conservative when used in our applications.

We are currently running an S5 sequential dog box in the GTM-R and couldn't be happier. We have had pro drivers that have shifted Xtracs, Hewlands, etc. and they all have commented that the Mendeola is right there with them as far as ease of shifting. You must remember that compared to these other manufacturers transaxles, the Mendeola box, even at a $13,500 price point, is less than half what you would pay for those others. Currently we have run this box for over 70 hours with one service that included a complete magniflux inspection and, so far, this thing hasn't skipped a beat.

The real torture test, of course, will be the 25. :)
 
Fran,
I have a "horses mouth" and you heard it from me. I am the first to put that "road race box" into action and you are more than welcome to jump in ( slither in) the GTM-R and test drive the gear box. Then you can make your own comments and share with us your thoughts. I am passionate about the component car industry and try to progress the best affordable way I can. Right now the mid engine tans crisis is stalling sales and the bottom line is to test, develop a new alternative for the industry and believe the Mendeola box was the best and most economical product out there. Bottom line: sell more boxes and sell more kits. "Win-Win". As one is commenting on gear selection and this and that, we have already been there done that, got the T-shirt (and trophies and championships) with the "right gearing". Mike Mendeola told me right from the beginning that the 4:11 is the strongest ring gear and that you could stack the gears to meet your needs. He is right and we have proved it. It is very attractive for auto X and track days for those hole shots out of slow corners. Cruising and gas mileage? tall 5th gear: end of story. Our current 5th gear is set for 165MPH. Satisfies me and all the drivers that we have had the privilege to find interest and time to drive my car. There will be some time on Friday that you can give it a go and hope that can get a good comparison of such a great product to increase sales for your company. PDG would like to assist and be a part of that.


Richard
 
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