I did not think that had been done. Did I miss it? My SLC is a replacement for my Viper (House fire totaled it). I don't see how it could fit without encroaching way into the fuel tank unless you lengthened the wheelbase.
Scotts build thread
- Thread starter Scott R.
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I did not think that had been done. Did I miss it? My SLC is a replacement for my Viper (House fire totaled it). I don't see how it could fit without encroaching way into the fuel tank unless you lengthened the wheelbase.
I think you ought to run with this idea Scott. Your car is looking uniquely good, and a smokin pressurized Merc V12 would turn it into something in the realm of a Pagani Huayra. Not a bad thing in my estimation. And for a lot fewer bucks. The sound of a cookin V12 can not be beat.http://www.gt40s.com/forum/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif
I think the length may be the only prob and frames have been modified to accommodate Ferrari V12s and at least one MB M120 V12.
If I won the lottery I would instamaticly have my order in for an SL-C and be snagging a MB V12, mate it up with a ProCharger I-1 system (I had a turbo and don't like them) and manage it all with Motec or ProEFI, for plenty of instant, controllable torque.http://www.gt40s.com/forum/images/smilies/idea.gif
Just sayin . . .
Just had a chance to get some close measurememnts on the M275 6.0 V12 tt. Looks like you would want about 30" for installed length. Width at the widest upper portion is roughly 28". This is counting the rather extensive accessory drive. You would not need most of it in an SLC install. Have not checked height, but, it does fit under the hood with the intercoolers on the top, so I think it could fit in the same space height wise as an LS if not giving you more room due to using larger and remote water/air intercoolers.
I am getting roughly 28" long on my 1UZ, so it looks doable.
I am getting roughly 28" long on my 1UZ, so it looks doable.
In before the end of the year!! Milestone day today as primer finally went on the back. Once I had a design I liked, it only took 3-4 weeks to go from idea, to this point. The other 7 months spent on the back, well, lets just call it "practice".
Already eyeing the next area to get the sawzall!
Misted on a black guide coat, so hence the differences.
Already eyeing the next area to get the sawzall!
Misted on a black guide coat, so hence the differences.
Scott, That's it! Nice job.The others I liked, but this is over the top!
Thanks Al!
Guess we call this the SRC......Scott Rowland Coupe......coming to a store near you.....
Very nice work Scott. Soon you will have time to help me with mine...lol
Very nice work Scott. Soon you will have time to help me with mine...lol
Lol. Thanks Dan. Coupe may not be a fitting word in a couple months though. Targa sounds better. :thumbsup:
Update on the Mercedes V12 idea.
There is only one company in the world that makes a standalone ecu for the motor. Just got off the phone with Speedriven and had a good discussion about this swap. While the ecu from them is $12,000 (!!!), it will control the motor, and a Porsche Tiptronic also! From what he said, the Mercedes 5 spd trans in the SL65 is the same Aisin trans for the Porsche. I have a Cayenne also, so very familiar with this trans and its slow shifting from the factory. He assured me it can be reprogrammed to make it shift as fast as the BMW SMG. The biggest concern from both myself and Speedriven is that the motor has sooooo much bottom end torque, he doesn't feel there is a streetable clutch that will hold it even with the lightweight of the SLC.
With the Tiptronic, I can also do paddle shift on the steering wheel. Going ferom a turbo 6 spd box to a Tiptronic that nobody wants, saves about $5k in trans cost alone, plus another $4,000 for clutch. Yes, it will weigh more, but with 900ftlbs of torque at 2600rpm is probably enough to overcome and extra 100lbs. Lol.
So, it appears this whole drivetrain plug and play with paddle shift and a super fast shifting auto can be had to a touch less than $20,000 with a good lower mile motor and the motor kept stock including the turbos. Even with stock turbos on the 5.5L V12, he said 850hp and 900+ftlbs is possible.
$12,000 for the ecu alone is quite a tough pill to swallow, but, talk about a wicked and one off package!! Keep it under 6500rpm and 200k miles would be a cakewalk for it.
Not ready to pull the trigger quite yet, but it does look like it is atleast possible and not too much off pricewise from a nice LS package and Graz.
There is only one company in the world that makes a standalone ecu for the motor. Just got off the phone with Speedriven and had a good discussion about this swap. While the ecu from them is $12,000 (!!!), it will control the motor, and a Porsche Tiptronic also! From what he said, the Mercedes 5 spd trans in the SL65 is the same Aisin trans for the Porsche. I have a Cayenne also, so very familiar with this trans and its slow shifting from the factory. He assured me it can be reprogrammed to make it shift as fast as the BMW SMG. The biggest concern from both myself and Speedriven is that the motor has sooooo much bottom end torque, he doesn't feel there is a streetable clutch that will hold it even with the lightweight of the SLC.
With the Tiptronic, I can also do paddle shift on the steering wheel. Going ferom a turbo 6 spd box to a Tiptronic that nobody wants, saves about $5k in trans cost alone, plus another $4,000 for clutch. Yes, it will weigh more, but with 900ftlbs of torque at 2600rpm is probably enough to overcome and extra 100lbs. Lol.
So, it appears this whole drivetrain plug and play with paddle shift and a super fast shifting auto can be had to a touch less than $20,000 with a good lower mile motor and the motor kept stock including the turbos. Even with stock turbos on the 5.5L V12, he said 850hp and 900+ftlbs is possible.
$12,000 for the ecu alone is quite a tough pill to swallow, but, talk about a wicked and one off package!! Keep it under 6500rpm and 200k miles would be a cakewalk for it.
Not ready to pull the trigger quite yet, but it does look like it is atleast possible and not too much off pricewise from a nice LS package and Graz.
$12,000 would buy a Graz...and apparently cover the cost of install, too! (From Fran: "Purchased as part of our kit package we can supply them [Graz] at a discounted rate as we can consider them an OEM unit at $10,000...")
Money-wise, unless shifting like lightning is your #1 & only goal and therefore you're determined to go the paddle shift route 'cause nothing 'less' will do, I wouldn't even hesitate to go with the Graz.
Buuuuuuuuut, we be talkin' your wallet here...not mine! :thumbsup:
I think you are looking at $10k for the Graz + $3,120 for the rest of the parts from Fran (adapter, flywheel, clutch, etc). Plus the Bosch starter, clutch lines & fittings, oil cooler & fittings. So all up: $15,000 for the V8 version or $18,000 for the V10 version.
Parts
Regardless of the accounting minutia, "all up" the other option is quite a bit more $$$s...which was my point.
Not really Larry. I am looking for used trans now and came up with this cool little part number. It is on the side of a Porsche Tiptronic.
There is a slight chance they may bolt up without adapter. That shaves another $1500 or so off if that is the case.
We both feel there may not be a clutch that will hold, at nearly any price, that is streetable. Since i have both a Turbo Cayenne, and an SL65 AMG, I am very familiar with how the trans operates. It certainly is strong enough, and there is no need to worry about the cost of the clutch. The torque converter is controlled by the ecu, so the lock up of it is constantly changing depending on demand. These are all configurable with their ecu. So for $12k, it includes the wiring harnesses for both engine and trans. Since they have already tuned many of these motors, there may very little tuning needed after install. So, literally plug and play.
There is a slight chance they may bolt up without adapter. That shaves another $1500 or so off if that is the case.
We both feel there may not be a clutch that will hold, at nearly any price, that is streetable. Since i have both a Turbo Cayenne, and an SL65 AMG, I am very familiar with how the trans operates. It certainly is strong enough, and there is no need to worry about the cost of the clutch. The torque converter is controlled by the ecu, so the lock up of it is constantly changing depending on demand. These are all configurable with their ecu. So for $12k, it includes the wiring harnesses for both engine and trans. Since they have already tuned many of these motors, there may very little tuning needed after install. So, literally plug and play.
If you were trying this with a new motor and trans, well, set aside about $70,000! Here are the numbers I am coming up with. I am just using current prices from Ebay.
5.5L V12 w/turbos and intercoolers 60k miles range- $4800
Porsche tiptronic- $3500
Ecu + harnesses- $12,000
Slush fund of no see'ums- $4,000
So, $23,000 roughly and you are driving. You could probably find a touch better deals. You will possibly need to modify axle length, but that is pretty easy.
The trans is already set up for shifting inputs via the steering wheel. Both my Cayenne and SL have them. So, get some actual paddles from another car (or make your own) to send the signal to the trans. Pretty simple really. I do not believe the shifter has a solid connection to the trans with a cable, so you could either put in a Benz shifter, or turn it all into push button on the dash for park, reverse and neutral.
It would make for a very easy to drive car that will literally bounce your eyeballs off the back of your skull. Lol.
The current 1UZ I have still needs to be built up. That will be $6,000 minimum. I need to upgrade trans to a turbo 6 spd box. $8,000. Beefier clutch $3,000. New shifter, $1200. Still need an ecu/harness, $4,000. So, I am at roughly $22,000 that I still need into my drivetrain. I can sell off my current stuff for about $7500.
So, I am money ahead by roughly $7,000 to go the V12 tt route with the tiptronic. That is how it makes sense for me.
5.5L V12 w/turbos and intercoolers 60k miles range- $4800
Porsche tiptronic- $3500
Ecu + harnesses- $12,000
Slush fund of no see'ums- $4,000
So, $23,000 roughly and you are driving. You could probably find a touch better deals. You will possibly need to modify axle length, but that is pretty easy.
The trans is already set up for shifting inputs via the steering wheel. Both my Cayenne and SL have them. So, get some actual paddles from another car (or make your own) to send the signal to the trans. Pretty simple really. I do not believe the shifter has a solid connection to the trans with a cable, so you could either put in a Benz shifter, or turn it all into push button on the dash for park, reverse and neutral.
It would make for a very easy to drive car that will literally bounce your eyeballs off the back of your skull. Lol.
The current 1UZ I have still needs to be built up. That will be $6,000 minimum. I need to upgrade trans to a turbo 6 spd box. $8,000. Beefier clutch $3,000. New shifter, $1200. Still need an ecu/harness, $4,000. So, I am at roughly $22,000 that I still need into my drivetrain. I can sell off my current stuff for about $7500.
So, I am money ahead by roughly $7,000 to go the V12 tt route with the tiptronic. That is how it makes sense for me.
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Fucking idiot! I got this far before thinking that the tiptronic has almost zero chance of being inverted. Lol. Bummer. I could really kill it in a race in reverse though!
Back to clutch research. Ugh.
Back to clutch research. Ugh.
Scott
I have a CL65 which I upgraded wiith a Speedriven ecu/tcu tune and its a day and night difference in the way it shifts as well as the throttle response. 12K is actually very good for complete standalone with wiring harness for that motor.
I paid close to 20K to get my Audi R8 motor tuned on a Standalone with a motorsports wiring harness for the SLC.
I have a CL65 which I upgraded wiith a Speedriven ecu/tcu tune and its a day and night difference in the way it shifts as well as the throttle response. 12K is actually very good for complete standalone with wiring harness for that motor.
I paid close to 20K to get my Audi R8 motor tuned on a Standalone with a motorsports wiring harness for the SLC.
Hi Scott, Have you looked at using the bmw m70 or m73 a mate is doing that with a tiptronic in his Aventador Replica.
https://www.facebook.com/Lamborghini-Aventador-Builder-1305508612846347/?fref=ts
https://www.facebook.com/Lamborghini-Aventador-Builder-1305508612846347/?fref=ts
Ya, price not all that bad. I am bummed about the tiptronic though, would have been so much easier to do. I hate to buy everything, install it, then hit the dyno only to have the clutch not hold. Right now, I think a tilton triple is the only choice. Not sure if tilton has carbon sprung hub disks though. That would still be hard to drive on the street, If only the Porsche trans could use a 16" clutch, my problems would be solved!
It's not really the amount of torque that is the problem, it is the rpm at which it hits. More like a semi truck. If it hit later in rpm, it would be easier.
He has so many videos on there, it crashed my garage computer. I did see a portion of a video that said "the car the transmission came from" and it definately was not a 911. It was paired with a V8, but it was front engine.
Being in Europe, it may be a varient of car not available here. Once I go inside to the better comp, I will see if I can figure out what it is or send him a message.
My head is now spinning trying to crunch all the 'total cost' estimates /assumptions represented by the various available engine/tranny combos mentioned above in the attempt to come up with a clear cut winner!
Having tried that, I remain convinced that, from a total $$$ standpoint (not to mention the advantage of not having to address a possible trainload of 'unknown variables' and Murphy's Law-generated 'pitfalls' that could spring from same...as well as the extra time that will likely be spent dealing with each/all of them), the Graz is the simplest, easiest, least 'complicated', potentially least 'consequential'...and most cost effective way to go overall.
Buuut, hey...admittedly, I'm not the brightest bulb on the Christmas Tree...so... :sad:
Having tried that, I remain convinced that, from a total $$$ standpoint (not to mention the advantage of not having to address a possible trainload of 'unknown variables' and Murphy's Law-generated 'pitfalls' that could spring from same...as well as the extra time that will likely be spent dealing with each/all of them), the Graz is the simplest, easiest, least 'complicated', potentially least 'consequential'...and most cost effective way to go overall.
Buuut, hey...admittedly, I'm not the brightest bulb on the Christmas Tree...so... :sad:
