Superlite GTA

having owned an eclipse, it's a comfortable, ergonomic interior. there is absolutely no reason to bash it. You are not building an eclipse, the eclipse/talon is giving you the center section only. you get nice weather seals, OEM glass/doors windows that already roll up and down, keys that lock the car, carpet, dash etc. If you want to replace some gauges you could. I bet no one would know it's a eclipse interior if you swap out a few things.

edit: HVAC Controls should be enough to tip the scale here!


I agree about the interior comments. Sure they aren't the best factory interior from Mitsubishi, I personally love the 3000gt/stealth interior myself but you can customize it to your liking. That is the beauty of this kit car. You can always buy a nice talon/eclipse that is already built up making good power then strip the car to build this kit.

I love the fact that the car will have an OEM finish from the get go. How many hours of labor and cost does it take guys to build the SL-C with an interior that doesnt seem cheap or like a kit car. The apex would be such a head turner anywhere you go, plus have a nice comfortable interior for long drives. I know when I bought my old 98 3000gt vr4 the interior was so nice. true black interior with grey sparco racing seats. I bought the car in Chicago and drove it home to the south side of Indianapolis. I was about halfway into the drive back(1.5 hours) and my back got super tight. The car was only a fair weather/weekend car. Never drove it to work because I am a boilermaker/pipe fitter. Getting inside a boilers with soot everywhere made me obviously not want to drive my car with a mint interor into work.

What people are failing to think about is the amount of venders/shops that specialize in DSMs. They are relatively cheap to mod with the sheer amount of cars out there there is plenty to choose from to modify the interior and drivetrain. That is what is really cool about kit cars but the apex more than most is that we can buy the kit and go was mild or wild as the owner wants/has the money for and that goes for all aspects of the car. Interior in the car I would build would be pretty mild. Set of suede racing seats, suede dash for the road course and for DDing so there would be no glare in the windshield.

Like I said in the thread before, I want a 3000gt vr4 stroker engine because the stock 3L with forged internals make over 1000 wheel horsepower and thats through the awd system. The vr4 I built was awesome but to beef up the drivetrain was stupid expensive. A shop came out with torque sensing center diff with 300m output shaft but it costs almost 3k, then add in a front and rear LSD and thats almost another 2k. With this are though you can use the vr4 transmission but weld the stock center diff and then block the output shaft hole. They also weld in an aluminum ring piece in the bellhousing to strengthen it up. Add in the billet CNC machined end case and the trans would be bulletproof.

The Apex with the 4.2L or really any stroker size going from 3.4L would straight up be a monster in this car. Pending the amount the 4.2L twin turbo setup is pushed I honestly wouldn't be surprised if this apex could give the TT gallardos a run for their money.

I think this car definitely has a price point that would work for us poor folks who cant afford a build SL-C. I think they should offer it only as a roller from their shop. Sure it will probably add to the entry cost but for peace of mind for me I would gladly pay the extra, have superlite mount the body so they know the fitment quality is spot on. I also think they could have different options for the build. Have the cheapest option use stock brakes and wheels. The second option could be to use the big brake kit, Option 3 could be the big brake kit, the wheels Fran said would come on the car. Could have options for custom paint, front splitter in carbon fiber, rear diffuser and stuff like that. i also agree about the different engine options. Make the subframe to fit the 4g64, but only paint or powdercoat the subframe if the customer is for sure going to use the stock engine from the dsm. If the customer is going to do something custom and different then leave the subframe bare metal to be welded on. That way the customer is paying for the coated subframe twice.

I just hope this car comes out because I have big plans for the engine I want to run, what turbo/turbos, engine management, and interior. I definitely would recommend using the motec pro efi because of the traction control. The supra guys are running it and their 1000 wheel horsepower cars are getting traction on the street. I was reading a thread on supraforums.com and guys were saying with the traction control turned off the car doesnt hook up on the street until 3rd or 4th gear. With the traction contol turned on the car still paints stripes on the street but the car is pulling hard even in 2nd gear. The apex will definitely need something for traction control being that the car will be pretty light, the mid engine design should help some and then with traction control I think the car would be a monster regardless of how much power its making.

thats just my .02 so Fran PLEASE make this kit!! If you decide to scrap it I will buy what you have for the car so far and finish the kit myself!! I would rather see you make them though and make money!
 
I agree with plenty of what you said. The only area we differ is offering the kit as a roller. That's fine, but if that does happen, I think it would be better as an option, (like you said) - at a higher price.

In all honesty, I can try to pick and choose what I want from this car, but the bottom line is, I just want to see the car released.

If this car is a go, I would love to purchase one in the spring of 2014.

Mr. Wolfe
 
Also, if anyone is in the Pittsburgh area and knows a lot about DSM's, I would love to pick your brains. Hell, if someone local who is very knowledgeable about DSM's and wants to build this Apex, we could probably really help each other out. With my kit car knowledge, tools, and garage space, we could probably work out a sweet deal if someone is lacking space to build.

Mr. Wolfe
 
Justin,

Judging by your posts, I think you want to see this project happen, but I do not see how brining up 3000gt drivetrain option helps this matter! This is EXACTLY the type of distraction that is hurting this project!
 
I agree...and I'm definitely fine with only the two drivetrain options as is (and maybe even a rolling chassis only offering - if I could complete it within my budget), but I think this is the information that Fran is looking for. People that ARE in fact wanting a more customized build outside of the original constraints.

Justin...would you proceed with the build given that the setup from RCR would be limited to RWD and engine mounts for 4G63 (or ls4)...and then you could take it from there? or with the help of RCR at an extra cost?

Or would you drop the project? I would assume others wanting more custom setups would be making similar decisions (to proceed with the build or not that is). My guess is that many might proceed with the build using the 2 options even though they stated wanting something else....hardly settling in my opinion!!
 
Wait, LS4 is a "finalist"? I know it is a cheap way to get into LSx engine family and it is a bit more compact, but I am pretty sure that there isn't a manual tranny for it.
 
Wait, LS4 is a "finalist"? I know it is a cheap way to get into LSx engine family and it is a bit more compact, but I am pretty sure that there isn't a manual tranny for it.

there absolutely is a 6sp available for it right now. you can buy the new transmissions on ebay for about 500.
 
Hey guys yes I would buy the kit even if the only engine option from RCR was the 4g63. I am a welder/pipe fitter so fabbing the mounts for the 3000gt would be no problem. The reason why I want to use the 3000gt engine is because I have built so many of those cars for myself or friends, I know those engines inside and out. I meant to say that I would buy the kit regardless of what engine options there was, I was just a lil tired when I typed all that up so I guess I didnt get all my thoughts down clearly enough.
 
Interesting reading guys....

you seem to be grasping the dilemma I have quite well...and as the comments show there is no clear resounding focus....everyone wants something just the way they want it....

Keep the thoughts coming ...I am following everything you are saying.
 
Fran, I know you are reading the comments just the way I am, but I am gathering, for the most part, the folks here just want the Apex to become available 1 way or another. Whatever it takes to get to market is what is paramount.

Could you explain in more detail where your head is at on this car? Is there a price point that will work with the original offer? Is it something we don't want to hear?

Mr. Wolfe
 
As I think about this more, and approach it with a focus purely on quality and put the concept of how much money on the side temporarily, I think there is an option for how to do this.

I think it has to be sold as a roller in that context. I also think it has to be a gutted roller, no dash, no door panels, no carpet, seats, etc. So if I was buying one, I'd get a car that rolled on 4 wheels (that I supplied ala SL-C) and then it's up to me the individual builder to decide what donor car parts I would put into it. So I'd have to buy a car or cars to give me the powertrain I want and the interior I want. This way, the car leaves the factory with the correct attachment of the front/back subframes and roof.

This may seem like more work, but as a manfacturer, I think simpler is better here. You don't have to worry then about (old carpet, old seats, dash cracks, etc). As long as you've got windshield installed it's fine. (the builder would add his/her own doors, but that's simple anyway)

Now I'm looking at a 300-400 hour build and it gets interesting. it's basically assembly at this point and not welding, fabricating, which I think was the original outcome desired.

So now, as a manufacturer you have a quality product going out the door, what should it be priced at?

If I continue to put it in the quality context, now it resembles more what the SL-C approach is I think. So the SL-C is 44k as a roller ignoring all the stages for now.

I think it has to be around 26,000- 29,995 :) then as a builder, if you can find a good solid car for 5k, and you keep the gelcoat finish, you can build this car for less than 30-35k.

Going this route has to mean more cost because the onus is now on Fran to source the eclipse/talon donor's to get the shell's. I think he can do this economically by buying up southern non-turbo cars to harvest the shell only and assume all other parts are throwaway. He would have to gut the cars, cut the subframes, and offer media blasting the shell as an option to a buyer (or maybe part of stage package)

Compare that to typical cars you build in that price range (FFR cobra, brunton stalker, FFR coupe) and you've got a competitor I think. I excluded the FFR GTM as that is trying to compete more with SL-C (which obviously it cannot, but I digress...)

Variables will always be there...'can i send you my shell fran' , 'please use a year x fran' etc.

Thoughts?
 
I think Fran stated that there would be zero welding. Just cut and bolt on subframes using templates. Seems easy enough to me.

Is this correct Fran?

Mr. Wolfe
 
I think Fran stated that there would be zero welding. Just cut and bolt on subframes using templates. Seems easy enough to me.

Is this correct Fran?

Mr. Wolfe

I'm guessing here, but I think the templates probably need a jig built to hold it all together or need more precision in how they attach, I know it was all suppose to use existing attachment points, so maybe i'm overthinking it or that's not possible.
 
I'm guessing here, but I think the templates probably need a jig built to hold it all together or need more precision in how they attach, I know it was all suppose to use existing attachment points, so maybe i'm overthinking it or that's not possible.

Here is a quote from Fran near the beginning of this thread.

"The chassis sections are bolt on...no welding required....75% of the attachment points dont even need drilling as they are already part of the OEM structure ...the other 25% require holes to be drilled ...the rear chassis incorporates a roll hoop with seat belt cross brace and also a diagonal brace to keep the track day scrutineers happy..."

Mr. Wolfe
 
Is it just me or do other think the question Fran posted is to build up some excitement for the unveiling of the Apex? The forum was really quite, the FFR released the 818, and then Fran posted the question to stir the pot. I have a feeling Fran will review the finished product of the Apex with some minor changes to the concept and a little higher price.

Others mention a multi-level purchase option like they have for the GT40 (my dream car). I like that approach.
 
Doug, I am not so contrived as to do something like that....the reason I ask is that I am deciding whether to bring the car to market at all or just change its format.

I have other ideas for the Apex too but I want to see what you lot have to say first...
 
Fran,
Maybe I have had a bad experience watching FFR 818 development over the past year and half. Great way to market and make people feel like they are part of something. Then at the end just do what they wanted to do (design contest). But they own the company and they can do what they want. I would do the same.

I am a retired NASCAR Late Model\Sprint car driver and I have been looking to do my first (plan to do more) kit car with my son to teach him how to work on cars and also how to drive them (autocross). I started following the 818 because of the low entry price and concept that I could make it a daily driver, I still am following it and watching to see what the coupe will look like. At this stage I am turned off by the body styling and interior of the kit car. What turned me on to the Apex was the looks and the use of the OEM cabin. I really don’t care if it is a 250HP or crazy 1000HP. I like the fact that it’s an exotic two seated, mid-engine, sports car, which can be used as a daily driver. I hope this hold true.

I found your company website and kit cars because I was looking for the GT40 and I like the engineering that was put into it and the look of the final product. I hope in the future I have a good experience building an Apex or 818 and move on to building my dream car GT40. I am sitting on a Ford FE 427 Side oilder that my father bought back in the early 70’s. I would disappoint him if I did not put it to good use with a GT40\Daytona Coupe\AC cobra.

I hope to hear good news about the Apex and see it become available.
 
I registered just to post about this project.

I have build a Factory Five cobra replica as well as restored/modded multiple other cars including a turbo MR2 and late-model mustang. I'm in my early 30s and would be planning another major project in 2-3 years.

I think the Apex is a perfect project for someone like me. I want a car that I can drive daily if I want, leave parked in the parking lot at work, drive in the rain, etc. I already have a car that is limiting (the cobra) in what I can do with it, I don't like to leave it in the parking lot at work because I'm worried people will mess with it, or it will rain. The OEM center section with factory AC and weatherproofing is perfect. The midmointed engine is perfect and the quality of Fran's work is impeccable.

The original plan (limited engine choices, you buy your own eclipse and Fran sends the body, suspension, and front and rear subsections) is perfect. I would prefer the LS4 over the 4g63 but that's not a deal-breaker.

At the original pricepoint, it's perfect. Have the wheels/lighting/exhaust as additional options to keep the cost down, as those are things that many would prefer to customize, especially people from the tuning scene. Sell only the body, suspension, subframes, hardware, and rear window as the base kit.

This is exactly the project I would love, and I have been following it closely since Fran announced it.
 
I think the overall concept of the Apex is a home run. It solves many issues that surround many component cars regarding interior, working windows, OEM fit an finish etc. all while having the bad-ass-ness of the Superlite brand and handing prowess. Perhaps, eventually, the "Apex concept" could permit different donors to potentially expand builder possibilities (I.e., Nissan "Z", Honda Civic, etc.). Choose your favorite Superlite supported passenger compartment and use whatever powerplant you whish. Certainly none of that comes cheap. I believe there is a significant market for this concept and hope it makes it.
 
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