Same with me!! What are your plans for your build? Engine choice, etc.I've got the SCL In my sights for later, but the Apex will due to get me started.
Superlite GTA
- Thread starter karlo
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Nice, Matt! Tentative to seeing what others end up doing and what's working or not working, I think I'll go semi-conservatively with the following:
4G63 mostly stock to go around 400 hp. From the cursory reading I've done, this might require better springs, cam and a turbo to get into the mid 20psi range, with ancillary gear to allow the turbo to breathe. But also from what I've read, it won't take too much more than that.
I considered the LS4 option, but 300 HP with heavier running gear doesn't appeal to me as much as 400 with lighter gear. Also, I had a Starion that I really enjoyed, but always thought I'd be fun to hot rod it. Now, I get a chance at it's distant cousin.
I considered other power plants, but I think I just want to stick to a straight forward build to get the building experience down. The Apex will be a gradient to the SLC.
I haven't had a ride that's gotten my blood flowing like my 1970 Super Bee. It would run mid 12's in the quarter, with about 450 BHP coming from the 440. It weighed a lot. The Apex with similar HP and over a half ton lighter will get the old adrenaline squirters flowing again, I'm sure. I won't need any more power than that in the Apex, at least for a while. It will be a stepping stone to the 700+HP I'm planning in the SLC. I'll be needing to relearn how to handle that much power, so a lower powered (but not low power :laugh
Apex will do just fine. I'm planning to get the Apex on a road track as well. I've never had that pleasure, and I think it will be a fairly nimble little beast and do OK there. But more importantly, I will be a better driver for it. That will also get me tuned up to handle the SLC when I build that one.
So, for now I'm waiting patiently for the release and putting together parts lists. I'll be moving to California in about three months, so I'm reading through what it takes to register a component kit car there. I'm way more confident about registering an SLC there than a 4G63 powered Apex. I'm hoping someone does a 4G63 build and successfully registers under SB100 with no emission restrictions before I do. I'd like to have the road map before I deal with the bureaucracy of it all.
Has anyone put thought into cooling yet? I've been tossing around which engine I want to use, the 4g63 or if I wanna go different and use a 2jzgte both will have the exhaust manifold/turbo between the engine and cabin, I thought about using a transmission that puts the exhaust on the back side of the car to help let all the heat out easier but that would cause a lot more custom work to the subframe. Don't think it would be worth the hassle to flip the engine around... Thoughts??!
From what I've read, the Apex will come in around 1150 kg (~2,500 lbs). So that should tame the 400 ponies just a tad. But I do expect to have my hands full. If it's too wild for me, I'll lower the boost till I get used to the power. I bet that Lotus 7 was a little screamer. What power plant were you running in it?
I think the 4G63 is more capable than I am, so I'm going to stick with it. This will be my first kit car, so building to the "plans" will be a good gradient for me. I also think maybe the SLC is an easier car to build than the Apex, but not in the budget just yet.
I think it goes without saying a LSD is mandatory. And I forgot to include some type of traction control as well in the post above. I will probably need it if I ever want to let my wife drive the Apex without hurting herself, someone else, or the car. Or maybe she gets a 370z (her dream car), and I let her pretend she can out run me every once in a while.
I may be missing something here but with the 4g63, I'm pretty certain that the exhaust mani/turbo will be between the engine and the rear of the car (not the cabin). It seems like you could run a very short, unrestricted exhaust if you wanted. Additionally, I plan to have one of the lower side air intakes devoted to the i/c and an upper for turbo air filter. However, the other lower and upper side intakes will be completely open and devoted to engine bay cooling. That combiend with the rear vents should allow for the escape of hot air. I'm not too worried about cooling.
I think heat build up won't be too much of a problem as long as you have some sort of insulation on the firewall. Maybe a heat shield between the exhaust manifold and the firewall might be needed to keep the heat off your right shoulder. Header wraps? Ceramic coating? Venting the back hatch? Ducting from one or more of the fresh air intakes as Matt suggests? Or any combination of these. I think unless you have deep pockets or mad skills and want the challenge, I see these as a much easier alternative to flipping those engines 180 degrees.
4G63 has the exhaust mani on the front, so unless you find a way to turn everything 180 (tranny runs backwards?) it'll be next to the firewall.
When I was researching this, the firewall heat shielding and where to route intakes for engine vs. I/C vs. other cooling needs were the puzzles I still hadn't sorted yet.
DSM 4G63 would have exhaust between the engine and the firewall (on front of the engine). However, if you really want to flip it around, you might be able use EVO4-9 cylinder head and place the exhaust in the rear of the engine. I am not sure if anyone has done this before, but it should be doable.
Generally, I am not a huge fan of wrapping exhaust parts with insulating material, but I might do it on the Apex…
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I'm not worried about the heat from the engine inside the cabin, I'm just thinking about the engine itself not over heating. I know there are multiple functional intakes on each side, the drivers side will probably be the intake side, then use the passenger side for getting fresh air thru the engine bay for getting the heat out. The rear looks to have plenty of room for the heat to escape out, I'm just thinking there might be a potential for issues with engine temps.
Justin, wouldn't you need one of those sides for I/C too?
Unless you planned to have that in front w/ the radiator, but that's a lot of plumbing to keep air tight.
Like I said this was one of the puzzles I was still noodling on. It's why I want to see one w/ motor in and how it's all been routed.
Unless you planned to have that in front w/ the radiator, but that's a lot of plumbing to keep air tight.
Like I said this was one of the puzzles I was still noodling on. It's why I want to see one w/ motor in and how it's all been routed.
Jim, do you mean you're worried about the engine bay getting hot, or the engine and/or water temp getting too hot?
I'm pretty sure it will have a front mounted radiator cooled by the air intakes on the front of the engine just like the GT40 and SLC have. A nice aluminum radiator with an electric fan or two should do the trick. The rear intakes could be used for other things, e.g. intercooler, oil cooler, fresh air intake, engine bay cooling.
I'm sorry, I meant turbo intake, oil cooler, and maybe intercooler. Hell maybe do a water/air intercooler setup... I'm just going to source a good shell to strip down and get it ready and in the mean time see what the other guys do and see what works best for my setup.
Both really but with a front mounted radiator Im sure the engine wont overheat unless trying to make HUGE horsepower. My big concern is with the engine bay temp. I am sure Fran has it planned out so it wont be a big concern if at all, but without seeing the rear of the car yet its hard to visualize where everything is going to be and how much space will be around the engine/accessories.
Fran, do you have measurements for the engine bay? Im sure a 2jz will fit considering the LS4 is an option and people routinely swap both the 2jz and lsX engines in rx7s and other cars. Just trying to figure out for sure how it all is going to work!
I believe the overheating issues with the LS2 and LS4 swaps in the fiero's is well documented. I bet the engine bay size and airflow with the Apex will be favorable in comparison however. Not sure how the LS engines compare to 4G63's in terms of engine heat. My guess is an engine bay with a big turbo compared to a NA V-8 would be hotter but I could be wrong (especially with it squeezed up against the firewall).
Guys,
the LS4 is transverse...NOT longitudinal so the 2JZ will not fit.
The LS4 is pretty confined in its original oem environment and I don't forsee any cooling issues ata all.
The 4g63 drivetrain does not get rotated when lifted from front to rear...
the LS4 is transverse...NOT longitudinal so the 2JZ will not fit.
The LS4 is pretty confined in its original oem environment and I don't forsee any cooling issues ata all.
The 4g63 drivetrain does not get rotated when lifted from front to rear...
I'm so happy to read this that I won't even brag about being the only one who seemed to know this haha :lipsrsealed: this makes the exhaust routing and intercooler setup so much easier
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My plan was to use the 3000gt vr4/stealth TT 6 speed, i figure if supra guys use powerglides by using an adaptor plate to mate up to the 2jz I could do the same, using that transmission the 2JZ would be mounted transversely, it still might not fit without custom intake and exhaust manifolds though.
