I don't think he owes me anything, I just want to see the damn car! I'm in Indianapolis so I was planning on a trip up there but I've just lost a little bit of interest so taking a day to go up there doesn't appeal to me anymore.
Superlite GTA
- Thread starter karlo
- Start date
I don't feel owed anything, but look at the recent posts of some of us who have lost interest and moved on. Those are lost customers. Some of us may be back when it is released, some may not.
I was really excited about this project in late 2012 when it was due for release in early '13. I'd done tons of research, bought some 4G63 learning materials, had a build list started, had some $ socked away. I was looking at starting a build last summer.
We're coming up on a year and a half since it was originally due for release and we've yet to even see photos of more than the outside (what's the engine bay like, suspension and frame attachments, roof skin attachment, etc). Also, the donor cars are going to be 17-20 years old next year! How many are still around that are unmolested and suitable? It didn't seem easy to find a 6-bolt block when I was looking, guessing it's got to be getting harder and harder as time goes by (plus they are now almost 25 years old!).
This thread is almost 100 pages of talking about the car. It's a unique concept in that it isn't expensive, should perform great, and looks like nothing else. It's great for a kit car in that the expense and difficulty of a nice interior is already solved.
Obviously it excites and interests people, but you can only promise a product for so long before the market goes elsewhere. Some of us who were the most interested a year plus ago are now on to other things and this has become back burner stuff at best.
EDIT: p.s. yes, I agree Fran's a busy guy and very involved with his customers/this forum. There aren't a lot of company owners that involved directly and that's cool. Wish I was a customer though.
I was really excited about this project in late 2012 when it was due for release in early '13. I'd done tons of research, bought some 4G63 learning materials, had a build list started, had some $ socked away. I was looking at starting a build last summer.
We're coming up on a year and a half since it was originally due for release and we've yet to even see photos of more than the outside (what's the engine bay like, suspension and frame attachments, roof skin attachment, etc). Also, the donor cars are going to be 17-20 years old next year! How many are still around that are unmolested and suitable? It didn't seem easy to find a 6-bolt block when I was looking, guessing it's got to be getting harder and harder as time goes by (plus they are now almost 25 years old!).
This thread is almost 100 pages of talking about the car. It's a unique concept in that it isn't expensive, should perform great, and looks like nothing else. It's great for a kit car in that the expense and difficulty of a nice interior is already solved.
Obviously it excites and interests people, but you can only promise a product for so long before the market goes elsewhere. Some of us who were the most interested a year plus ago are now on to other things and this has become back burner stuff at best.
EDIT: p.s. yes, I agree Fran's a busy guy and very involved with his customers/this forum. There aren't a lot of company owners that involved directly and that's cool. Wish I was a customer though.
Well, I am glad you typed this so I didn't have to. I agree with everything. At least in 2012 and 2013 we were getting "updates" every once in a while. Even if it was just, "hang in there, we are making progress" posts I would probably be a little more patient. But it's no responses in this thread from anyone who knows anything. Close to zero posts this year...
Mr. Wolfe
Guy's, I understand that you are upset; however, I'm going wax a little philosophical here! There is an old adage that there is a silver lining in every cloud. Having waited 18 months with numerous promises broken for car to be released; certainly could be considered a “cloud”!
No question about that, it's a major cloud; but now for the “silver lining” part: thank your lucky stars that you are only considering placing an order with RCR and haven’t actually plopped any money down yet! Just imagine how upset you would be if you placed a sizable deposit down, received a delivery date and that date comes and goes with many, many more more promises being broken?
If you're like me, you would probably forget about all of that the day your long awaited new dream arrived. But what if the broken promises aren’t over? What if parts (lots of them) are checked off on the itemized parts list ...but are actually missing? What if some of the parts are on back order with no ETA for a delivery date? What if the price on some of these components has changed. What if some of the engineering on new part wasn’t even completed yet. What if an instruction manual for these new items hasn’t been written yet? What if your telephone calls and e-mails go un-returned?
Someone posted that Fran is an excellent “designer/engineer”.....I agree; “business man”.....not so much, IMO! Guy's, thank your lucky stars, some times in life the hand writing is on the wall....you just have to read it! :idea:
Best of luck,
Jim
That's exactly what I was thinking reading that. Why can't he even tell us hey here is what's up. He doesn't have to go into crazy detail about any big decision but it would it be nice to know this car is still going to happen! As much as I wouldn't mind having a decently modded eclipse to play with I am glad I didn't buy one now.
Let me ask you a question, if Fran hadn't told you about the GTA at all, would you be feeling this way now? No. This is where sometimes I feel it is better for manufacturers to NOT tell the public anything.
The simple fact that you are essentially demanding more information does mean you feel like you are owed something.
The simple fact that you are essentially demanding more information does mean you feel like you are owed something.
Nobody is demanding anything, regardless though not updating the thread on information is pushing business away. I'm not sure the numbers on how many need sold to break even and into profit but a lot of those potential sales are gone or have one foot out the door. I'm not much into hype threads either, with past builds I did I wouldn't post anything until the car was close to be done.
You're not demanding anything but you want updates?
Help me out here.....
Help me out here.....
I am not sure where all of the negativity is coming from, but me moving onto another car was my personal decision. I was and still am a strong contributor in this thread with my insight, helping promote to keep the Apex alive whenever it was in question from Fran last year, photoshopping, etc. I still hope for everyone's sake, including my own possibly, in the future that this car does make it to manufacturing. That's a win for everyone.
I don't understand all of the talk about "being owed something" either. No one is owed anything because we have no financial investment on the project. Everyone has the right to lose interest in a project. That is way different than being owed something.
Mr. Wolfe
I don't understand all of the talk about "being owed something" either. No one is owed anything because we have no financial investment on the project. Everyone has the right to lose interest in a project. That is way different than being owed something.
Mr. Wolfe
I'm using a ACT2900 with a Southbend Kevlar street disc. It is very streetable. Holds more torque then the 2600 and is not as stiff. I have it matted with a ACT streetlite flywheel. I"m currently at 502hp.
Easiest fix for your clutch need is to call Tim @ TMZ. I pers have the Southbend ceramic clutch with the act chromo FW and love the combo, very street friendly.
Like I said, potential customers are losing interest. I could have been one of the first customers, but got tired of waiting and lack of concrete information (it's hard to plan a build for example when you've never seen under the skin). I was on the edge of buying a donor and getting a parts inventory built up. What would that parts inventory need to be, I don't know because there hasn't been enough detail. Oh yeah, and it has the promise of great performance based on specs and RCR's track record, but we've never seen one running or moving under its own power.
So if there are no more updates, then ok. But, having people lose interest and move on doesn't seem to be in RCR's best interests.
A year and a half later than intended is a long damn time.
I am with Tom on this. I certainly don't think Fran owes me anything! I am just a prospective customer for a product that really does not exist yet. Facts are: most of us have constraints that are either time, space, money or 'permission'. So windows of opportunity open and close all the time.
Fact is, many are impatient to see more of the car! Thats not a bad thing. Fran is not ready to release more. Who knows why. There is either nothing to report.. , bad news... ,or there is a big reveal and they are maintaining radio silence for strategic reasons.
Shoot.. Fran could be charging $100 deposits just for your place in line, and the right to be on the update list. (like the Elio project)
Since I first started following this, there have been a couple key changes to my situation. My cobra was around 89k miles. I needed to either start fixing/upgrading components, or sell it before the mileage made it unsaleable. Without a good reason to sell it, I sort of defaulted into the 'keep it' path. I know if I had sold it last year, the cash would have quickly been redirected into other projects or priorities.
I am still following this because I beleive in the product. There is a niche for a performance oriented build made up from modest, easy to source components. A car where the Value will be MUCH more than the sum of the parts!
Fact is, many are impatient to see more of the car! Thats not a bad thing. Fran is not ready to release more. Who knows why. There is either nothing to report.. , bad news... ,or there is a big reveal and they are maintaining radio silence for strategic reasons.
Shoot.. Fran could be charging $100 deposits just for your place in line, and the right to be on the update list. (like the Elio project)
Since I first started following this, there have been a couple key changes to my situation. My cobra was around 89k miles. I needed to either start fixing/upgrading components, or sell it before the mileage made it unsaleable. Without a good reason to sell it, I sort of defaulted into the 'keep it' path. I know if I had sold it last year, the cash would have quickly been redirected into other projects or priorities.
I am still following this because I beleive in the product. There is a niche for a performance oriented build made up from modest, easy to source components. A car where the Value will be MUCH more than the sum of the parts!
Last edited:
Agree with both of you. I just don't want to be painted as bitter, because I am not.
Mr. Wolfe
Mr. Wolfe
I'm definitely not either. Disappointed though as I'd like to have become a car builder and part of the RCR owners "club". There's really nothing else out there that fills the bill for me, hence I've moved on and am enjoying my FR-S.
I will still continue to follow this forum, drool over people's projects, and hope the Apex comes to be and is totally amazing.
I will still continue to follow this forum, drool over people's projects, and hope the Apex comes to be and is totally amazing.
WOW...I leave for Arizona for a few days of R and R and also some work on the HT2 truck and I missed all of this.
There have been many things going on here at the shop from SLC/Le Mans/LMP1 /Monoposto/HT2/D type and the Apex is just one more of them.
There is the potential for the Apex to be brought to market by another company that has shown interest in purchasing the whole project from me........although they have also asked me to pursue the V8 longitudinal option, which goes against my original plan but it may be more enticing to many builders...????..while this is enticing I am not sold on the idea yet
The Apex has cost a lot of money in the development process , especially having changed direction mid stream due to the suspension component changes... as I am not into wasting hard earned investment money the Apex is still very alive and well.
I don't post on this thread unless there is something of note to say....and I am only answering now as there is a lot of noise here at the moment.....
There have been many things going on here at the shop from SLC/Le Mans/LMP1 /Monoposto/HT2/D type and the Apex is just one more of them.
There is the potential for the Apex to be brought to market by another company that has shown interest in purchasing the whole project from me........although they have also asked me to pursue the V8 longitudinal option, which goes against my original plan but it may be more enticing to many builders...????..while this is enticing I am not sold on the idea yet
The Apex has cost a lot of money in the development process , especially having changed direction mid stream due to the suspension component changes... as I am not into wasting hard earned investment money the Apex is still very alive and well.
I don't post on this thread unless there is something of note to say....and I am only answering now as there is a lot of noise here at the moment.....
Last edited:
That's good news Fran, thank you. I like the V8 option...
Mr. Wolfe
Mr. Wolfe
