Superlite GTA

[John Ross]

I just found out about this project two days ago. And minutes ago I finished reading all your posts. I felt like I was watching an action movie and all was lost when you made the no go post, I almost cried lol, but then I read 14k price, basically gold.

LOL!

To answer a couple of your questions, I don't think you can make a profit building and selling a custom/kit car UNLESS you build to order--i.e. get paid for your labor and the customer pays for all parts up front. Build a car on spec and buyers will beat you down by claiming they'd have wanted something built differently.

Engine brackets for 4g63 would be included with the kit.

Total car weight is estimated at 2500 lbs. and yes to air conditioning.

JR

 

[Justin Hutson]

LOL!

To answer a couple of your questions, I don't think you can make a profit building and selling a custom/kit car UNLESS you build to order--i.e. get paid for your labor and the customer pays for all parts up front. Build a car on spec and buyers will beat you down by claiming they'd have wanted something built differently.

Engine brackets for 4g63 would be included with the kit.

Total car weight is estimated at 2500 lbs. and yes to air conditioning.

JR

Amen to A/C!!! Never again will I delete air conditioning in a car that sees street use! I had a 98 Mitsubishi 3000gt vr4 with 22k original miles on it. I bought it modded already so I didn't feel bad about putting a single turbo kit, with race heads and 280 cams. Suck part was the front exhaust manifold made the ac have to come out. Being a weekend car I thought it would be fine but black interior with grey suede made the car killer when it was hot out! It was 100% miserable!! It's more fun having a high horsepower car that can beat bikes in roll races with the a/c blowing ice cold!!!

 

[eddie]

First PROPERLY SETUP 4G63 Apex will spell the end of all this LS4 talk... Just saying...

And Eddie, there isn't really Mitsu vs. Subaru rivalry... Every time they try to make such events, it isn't even close to call it fun!

Lol my thoughts exactly. The power/torque will be no problem at all. I cant wait to read the reactions from all the v8 guys. This feels like 1999 again lol. I cannot wait.


Fran do you do any kind of financing on the kits?

Eddie Rosado

 

[Justin]

Fran do you do any kind of financing on the kits?

Eddie Rosado

Your best bet is to get a personal loan from a bank. It's almost impossible to get a "car loan" for a kit car. I used a personal loan to finance the rest of my Razor, but I paid it off within a couple months (and I knew I would).

 

[PeteB]

First PROPERLY SETUP 4G63 Apex will spell the end of all this LS4 talk... Just saying...

But Eclipse harness is pretty specific to engine operation, if you are not using a Mitsu engine (again: BIG MISTAKE! ), you should be able to remove it.

Sorry, I'm just an American pushrod V8 kinda guy. I was only marginally interested in the Apex before Fran said LS4.

With a LS4, you'd still need the chassis harness from the Eclipse for non engine related stuff like headlights, turn signals, wipers, windows, heater, etc. I successfully mated a Ford Racing EFI harness to the chassis harness in my Cobra, but the Ford Racing harness came with a wiring diagram and an install manual.

 

[Scott Davis]

I haven't previously owned an eclipse so I'm not biased to the 4G63 vs LS4. Even though I'm fine with doing the 4 cylinder build I find myself wanting to make the V8 work. The problem with the V8 certainly appears to be the transmission. I guess to start, I also have questions regarding the LS4 kit vs the other.

Fran, I understand the builder has the added cost of sourcing the engine and transmission. What additional parts are required? axle shafts etc? Are there significant other modifications required to be made by the builder over that of the 4G63 kit or are these just going to be incorporated into the kit? at an added cost?

Changing gears...based on the frame, bulkhead, engine etc. is a longitudinal transmission with the LS4 more or less out of the question? generally how much modification would be needed?

If possible (when you post pictures next week) can you provide picture of the engine bay and underneath the car. Do you have any final dimensions (wheelbase still 103x78?) or size of the engine bay?

Sorry for so many questions...

 

[John Ross]

Scott, the go-to guy for the transverse 4T65E transmission is Dave Norris at Triple Edge Performance in Ft. Wayne, Indiana. These transmissions are the bulk of his business, and he will be doing mine. His transmissions are in drag cars that are generating 600HP at the wheels on a chassis dyno. Don Kraus runs 10.5 second quarters with one of these hooked to a 600+ HP 427 inch stroker motor in a Fiero. Triple Edge Performance - Home Page

Wanting to use the LS4 engine in a longitudinal setting makes no sense--just use an LS3. A longitudinal trans with an LS will not fit in the Eclipse without MAJOR surgery and certainly not with the Apex kit.

JR

 

[Scott Davis]

Scott, the go-to guy for the transverse 4T65E transmission is Dave Norris at Triple Edge Performance in Ft. Wayne, Indiana. These transmissions are the bulk of his business, and he will be doing mine. His transmissions are in drag cars that are generating 600HP at the wheels on a chassis dyno. Don Kraus runs 10.5 second quarters with one of these hooked to a 600+ HP 427 inch stroker motor in a Fiero. Triple Edge Performance - Home Page

Yes...assuming you want an automatic transmission correct? I'm still fishing around for a way to do a manual. Seems as though the F40 is really the best solution for the LS4. I haven't heard that TEP or other having a 600 Hp+ F40.

Wanting to use the LS4 engine in a longitudinal setting makes no sense--just use an LS3. A longitudinal trans with an LS will not fit in the Eclipse without MAJOR surgery and certainly not with the Apex kit.

Figured this...just asking

 

[Leon R]

Sorry, I'm just an American pushrod V8 kinda guy. I was only marginally interested in the Apex before Fran said LS4.

I get it, we all have our biases, just as 818 has little appeal to me because of its Subaru connection .

The thing is, eventually people will see that they have to pay more money to get lower power set up, which weighs 200lbs more (add another 100lbs if you stick with an automatic tranny)! Some will still pick the V8, but most performance oriented builders will pick the four banger!

I am not asking you guys to take my word for it, all you have to do is to wait for the first PROPERLY SET-UP 4G63 APEX! And it DOES have to be PROPERLY SET-UP! There are plenty of examples out there of people spending big money for little return!

 

[PeteB]

I am not asking you guys to take my word for it, all you have to do is to wait for the first PROPERLY SET-UP 4G63 APEX! And it DOES have to be PROPERLY SET-UP! There are plenty of examples out there of people spending big money for little return!

There's the problem - I have absolutely no idea how to properly setup a 4G63. I do, however, have a pretty good understanding of pushrod V8s.

 

[Leon R]

There's the problem - I have absolutely no idea how to properly setup a 4G63. I do, however, have a pretty good understanding of pushrod V8s.

4G63 is extremely easy to set-up! This engine has been in US since 1990, so there are plenty of very well established paths to making LOTS of power with it and numerous vendors to help you! In fact, a common newbie mistake is doing TOO MUCH to it and thinking “that you know better”!

Some people look at 100k mile short block and assume that it is ready for a rebuild. They go through the rebuild, spend thousands of $$$, buy all sorts of unnecessary “updates” and screw-up a perfectly fine engine! Keep in mind that stock short block is good for 400-500 RELIABLE horsepower!

Too many people bring their “experience from other engines” and try to apply new things to 4G63. That rarely works… Stick to the established formula and you will be fine! Now, I am not trying to stifle innovation, I am just giving you the most proven way to make quick and reliable power from this engine.

I guess it all come to: “Is this old dog willing to learn a new trick”? But do not give a final answer until you see what 4G63 can do! :evil:

 

[Ben Whittle]

You're mistaking people's desires for a V8 to be because of power, it's not, certainly not for me.

I've lived with 4 pots my *entire* life (being from the UK), I just have ZERO desire for an engine that is completely and utterly.....undesirable.

 

[Merim]

i want v8 torque is the primary reason to put a v8 in it

 

[Scott Davis]

i want v8 torque is the primary reason to put a v8 in it

hmmm some pretty good numbers here...
DSM Dyno Challenge - Highest Horsepower

 

[Justin Hutson]

hmmm some pretty good numbers here...
DSM Dyno Challenge - Highest Horsepower

The 4 and 6 cylinder mitsu motors can definitely make v8 like power. Hell the owner of dynamic racing came out with bolt on turbos for the 3000gt vr4 and stealths that made 608awhp and 604 awt, with the stock 3L. He also has a heads, cam, intake, nitrous, tune viper that makes the same power, but his stealth made power quicker throughout the entire powerband, not bad putting a stock sized bolt on turbo onto a 3L and making more power than the modded 8L v10!!! But hey different strokes for different folks!! If we all liked the same thing we all would be fighting over the same girl!! Haha, I like having completely different options, makes the kit car that much more unique!

 

[Scott Davis]

If we all liked the same thing we all would be fighting over the same girl!! Haha, I like having completely different options, makes the kit car that much more unique!

No sense in fighting, you can take mine...the girl that is. In fact that might make this kit project that much easier.

 

[Merim]

yikes...scouring CL for potential donors, mostly 'tasteless' modded cars and mostly automatics. may be hard to find a proper donor around Chicagoland.

yikes... 96 Talon tsi Turbo

this one looks good but 7k...

1996 Eclipse GST/GSX Built 400hp

 

[Justin Hutson]

yikes...scouring CL for potential donors, mostly 'tasteless' modded cars and mostly automatics. may be hard to find a proper donor around Chicagoland.

yikes... 96 Talon tsi Turbo

this one looks good but 7k...

1996 Eclipse GST/GSX Built 400hp

That's the kind of car I'm looking to buy.. Gotta be a black interior car, I prefer an awd car because I'm going to DD the car until I can buy the apex kit, then I'll part out the drivetrain since I'm using the 3000gt engine and trans, so the more mods the better since I will be selling it all.

 

[Jason Lewey]

The LS4 camp should probably look for the NT 420a cars considering the Mitsu harness will be incompatible anyways. May as well rip everything out and replace it with something like a Painless kit for the chassis with that new MSD EFI for engine management.

I'll be looking for the cleanest, rust free, no prior accidents car as a donor. I expect to take a while in my search...

 

[eddie]

I love v8's but only when they are two 4 cyl's at 90° with 180° cranks heheheh. Some short rods make it sound glorious as well.