Where are today's supercars headed

[ChrisL]

Where are today\'s supercars headed

Yeah, I know this is the GT40 forum, but being the supercar of its day, the question had to be asked, where are the supercars (or should I say ultracars) of today headed. Is this Ferrari what you would have expected?

web page

And in case the picture didn't come through, here is the site address with further info.
http://www.ferrari.com/cgi-bin/fworld.dll/ferrariworld/scripts/m agazine/news_details_office.jsp?oid=1610632843

[ April 22, 2002: Message edited by: Chris L ]

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

Re: Where are today\'s supercars headed

I think it is interesting that Ferrari's "supercars" since the mid-80s- the 288GTO, the F40, the F50- have borrowed heavily from F1 technology. And now this one, (which if I am not mistaken is going to be called the "Enzo" after the fellow who used to vacuum the offices at the plant and make sure the soda machine was filled.) Seriously, only the 288GTO had any pretensions to being a race car in that it was supposedly built in a group to homologate the design for a race series that never in fact occurred. Arguably, it is the best looking of their recent supercars.
Now the new one is borrowing heavily from their F1 cars in another supercar "for the street". I'm not sure on what street anyone could drive such a car. Their F1 engines (18,000 rpm redline, air-operated valves, etc) are not in any sense street engines, if that is what this car will have.
Since Ferrari were ushered out of GT racing by Ford's efforts of the 1960s, they haven't come back, unless I have missed something. Although there have been some private efforts lately in GT racing, there has been no factory effort since way back when. I always thought there was more of a conceptual relationship between GT racing cars and high-performance street cars. Their efforts don't seem to follow that path. I think they will continue to produce small quantities of very exotic, very fast, very impractical "road" cars for the very wealthy longtime Ferrari customers. There seems now to be a tradition of this. Is this where other supercars are headed? I don't think so. What other manufacturer has a similar technology base from which to borrow for a street race car like the new Ferrari? How many could be sold? Perhaps Porsche or McLaren, who've already made similar efforts in the past (959, F1, for example).

I also suspect that since Enzo's demise, the factory is run along much more practical lines and is chiefly concerned with making money and solidifying their position in high-end cars, not with the sort of emotional attachment to racing that he had. They will build what sells, and what looks trendy, regardless of taste. Nothing they make now, with the possible exception of the 456, has the sort of purity of line and elegance that was such a feature of their vintage cars, or the Boxer, or the early 308 Euro cars. And none of them come close to the looks of a GT40.

 

Re: Where are today\'s supercars headed

Give it a read, I know it's a Jap car but it appears to have a lot of the ruggedness of supercars taken out of it.
A real supercar for the road if you will... http://www.honda.com.au/NR/HondaCars/Splitter.asp?post=~HondaCars~motor+vehicles~motor+vehicles~default.htm&chan=~HondaCars~motor+vehicles~motor+vehicles

 

Re: Where are today\'s supercars headed

Hmmm.
Ok the NSX I'm talking about, since that link doesn't work too well...

 

Re: Where are today\'s supercars headed

The NSX is at least ten years old,with mild upgrades and never really got many people excited when new. Could never be classed as a supercar other than by a Honda saleman.
regards

 

[Guest]

Re: Where are today\'s supercars headed

Jim

I don't know exactly why Ferrari concentrated
on F1 instead of GT racing. I'm sure someone
more fluent in Ferrari history can tell us.

But one thing is clear, Enzo (like Shelby)
sold street cars for only one purpose...
to finance his racing operations.
He really wasn't looking to sell
street cars as a goal in itself.

Since Ferrari is now owned by Fiat (deep pockets), they have the freedom to spend
lots of money on "image" cars. You can be sure Ferrari does not make a profit.

However that is the exception.
GM/Ford/Porsche's shareholders won't go for
that kind of funny stuff. That's why building
the new GT40 is such a surprise to so many.

What will the future hold for supercars?
Obviously technology will continue to
improve so we shouldn't be surprised as
faster/quicker/safer cars appear.

But it's that intangible thing that grabs
us when we look at a car and our pulse rate
quickens. Call it character, call it soul,
call it whatever. That's the challenge to
the designers. I hope they're up to the task.

If not, we'll just build more replicas of
the great classics!

MikeD

 

[Jim Glickenhaus]

Re: Where are today\'s supercars headed

HI
A few points on Ferrari. They did not leave sprots car racing. After 1967 they withdrew for a few years,not because of Ford who even though they lost LeMans to they still won the sports car championship that year,but because of a rule change reducing engine size. In following years their 312PB's,512M's,333SP's raced very succesfully.
They are not owned by Fiat but by a group of shareholders including the Agnelli group and soon will be floated as an independent Co.
They do make a profit and have for some time.
There cars are usuable. I have driven mine over 200,000 miles on the street in the rain,sleet and even snow. They aren't hard to maintain either,and never overheat.
The new 360 isn't hard to look at and a version will be racing at LeMan's this year.
I think some of ther designs are almost perfect. There's a pic of my P4 on the 917 thread.
Their results in F1 are very impressive,their new car is WAY ahead of everyone.
All of these cars are way cool.
Horses for courses.

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Re: Where are today\'s supercars headed

By the way, G.M. has done what Ford was unable to,they have acquired a large shareholding of Fiat stock and are looking at taking over more of the Fiat car business.
Ferrari watch out ...could be an old pushrod V8 in there somewhere

 

[Jim Glickenhaus]

Re: Where are today\'s supercars headed

The GM purchase of Fiat does NOT include Ferrari/Maserati.

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Re: Where are today\'s supercars headed

just TEASING boys!!!

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

Re: Where are today\'s supercars headed

Mk4: I am glad your Ferrari has been reliable. Mine drove me nuts for nearly two years, finally seems to be sorted out but you never know. It is fun to drive but has way too many idiosyncrasies and entirely too much in the way of systems which were engineered by people who seem determined to do everything in as complicated a way as possible. Reliability of those systems is about what you'd expect. Abysmal.
I would like to see Ferrari get back into GT racing, after all they have a long and honored tradition in it, but until the recent efforts with the 360, I thought it would not happen. Now, maybe they will...
I suspect they make money on cars like the F40, F50 and Enzo, (if that's what it is to be called), because they sell at such high prices, and even if they just break even, the plus to their image is worth it. Ferrari is still a name to conjure with, even if the founder is gone, and even if the sale of road cars is just as important to them as winning F1 races.
The origin of this thread was: where are todays' supercars headed? I think in at least two directions; first, VERY complex cars like the Ferraris, with a lot of electronics and automated systems, and second, simpler cars with lots of power, minimal microprocessors, and, for me, lots more appeal. The new GT40 is such a car. Also, the Viper, regardless of whether you like it or not. To me, too much automation in a car makes it less reliable and takes away from the immediacy of enjoyment of lots of power under the driver's control.
By analogy, one of my favorite Mercedes is the vintage 6.3 sedan, even though a 6.9, 500E or E55 is a lot faster and smoother. There's a visceral, exciting feel to the earlier car that is lacking in the later cars, even though as cars they are probably better and make more sense. For the same reason, I'd rather have a vintage Cooper S than the new BMW Mini, even though the new version is a lot more practical.
Sorry for the digressions, It's so hard to love just one car...

 

[M.B]

Re: Where are today\'s supercars headed

Hello, !

I hope so, as i am not a GM fan !
Maybe i´ll get some beating now..
Oh, what the H***l !!!

Porsche dominated more or less the sportcar cirkus from 70 till they stopped it, Group C.
I more or less, lost interest in it after that.
There were a few others...lucky strikes ...
Jaguar latest...even Matra did get one year.
But some Ferrari´s did good races but not too much of any dominance or anything eye popping.
Like they did in their years before the Grand Ford turned up !

Ferrari´s passion was probably the F1.
And now the cars are as good as they almost alway´s have been.
Difference is that this time, not alway´s they also have relayability..
Latin teperament !!!!
I like italian cars as many others but when i hear or see a GT40 or such my heart beats like never before.
Simply the best !!!!!!!

 

[Guest]

Re: Where are today\'s supercars headed

Ferrari leave GT racing? I remember watching lots of races in the mid 90's when the F40 (in privateer hands) took part in the BPR GT series (now FIA GT, and duller for it). The F40 is one of the more charismatic GT cars as it genuinely is a road car as well as race car, like the McLaren F1.

And the 360 is a great looking car too.

Malcolm

 

Re: Where are today\'s supercars headed

Does this mean the MAzda/ Eunos RX 8 misses out??

 

[Jim Glickenhaus]

Re: Where are today\'s supercars headed

Jim
Hey I'm stuck in the 60's too. I agree that modern tech has made modern racing much less interesting to me. As John Lennon said "It sounds like muzak to me" That being said the young ones are more turned on by "The Fast and The Furious" Than McQueen's "LeMans". If you look at Ferrari's financial statement it's scary what percentage of thier revenue comes from licencing.
Best
Jim

 

Re: Where are today\'s supercars headed

I know where the "Supercars" need to be driven (to answer a question above). I just spent a vacation in the Tyrolean Alps, blasting away at the most beautiful, curvy, smooth and scenic roads I've ever seen in a very nice A6 Turbo.... When, around the curve from behind the hill about a hundred yards ahead, on a road that was no more than 1 1/2 cars wide, comes a red F-40 in full song out near the edge...! A quick correction and he's back on his side and gone! Flash, it's a memory, but what a sound! What a woody!

Yup, THAT'S what they are for!

 

Re: Where are today\'s supercars headed

I think the people here would see a Supercar as something a bit wild and untamed.
An essential factor in this wildness would be SPEED.
Perhaps also a Supercar is a sports car: something designed to enhance rather than remove the experience.

These days. however, most truly wild cars have stability control, and some have traction control that cannot be turned off.

Some people might call an Audi RS4 a supercar, but it is really just and extremely fast, capable version of a normal car. I want one anyway, but I don't see it as a supercar.

Hopefully the manufacturers of this world will start to build more spectacular "supercars"..
until then, the GT40 and its replicas reigns supreme!

Sorry I drifted off there, back to reality!

 

[Robert Logan]

Re: Where are today\'s supercars headed

Chris, et all,

The NSX is one of the finest cars ever produced I believe and it did not suprise me that the great Carroll Smith of GT40 fame with the original race teams had more than a little to do with this car.

There is a very strong word around here in Australia that the new V8 NSX will be released here soon and that will be something else. The ONLY thing that the current NSX lacks is GRUNT as you friends in the US call it.

A NSX with a V8 , now that would be interesting.

As a point of interest from me , which is not ONLY suposed to stir up people is that after 35 plus years of development it is not suprising that the Porsche is a great car but even a small company like mine would have got it right (I would hope ).

Long live the V8 !!!!!

Best wishes,

Robert

 

[Guest]

Re: Where are today\'s supercars headed

Just saw a piece on Motor Week about the new NSX: sorry no V8 yet. Traction control is now available though. The bottom line was that with it anyone could drive the car fairly quickly and safely. Without it, the real car guys/drivers will enjoy the mid-engine handling characteristics. Not much else has changed though.