Where is the Factory Five of GT40s?

I think that the FFR GTM car will basically be the GT40 with a different nose and rear. Maybe FFR will sell there kit minus these two items and someone out there can make these two bolton items at a reasonable price. When you look at the differences I think that is all there is to it. They are maintaining the GT40 doors roofline.. I'd say its a GT40 in disguise. Ecuse me.. I just went and looked at the GTM car and they did modify the roof by installing a scoop and the doors to follow the flow of the body. But really these are cosmetics. If it werent for the Shelby/Ford lawsuit issue FFR could easily sell this kit with 2 different body options. 1 The GT40 vintage style or 2 the retro modern style. Interior frame everything else remaining the same.
Datonbill or Bill, Its too bad that there is some friction between you and FFR, but like marriages sometimes things can be worked out. $10,000 for these molds may not be a bad price. Maybe you can workout a joint venture with FFR to supply the vintage GT40 bodys as a side company not under the lawsuit agreement. This could be the answer, and people are working in the areas where there best expertise are being utilized. Just a thought.

Daniel

[ January 13, 2003: Message edited by: DanielD ]

 

DanieID, The brother that runs the day to day operation of FFR seems to be a " control all " type. That's OK! I guess??? They do not take to suggestion by other people from what I've seen & heard. They stopped selling their kit in stages because customers were buying a better made body from another builder that fit their chassis.
Also, the ten grand was to borrow the molds and make myself a body and not to produce bodies to sell.
re: " low dollar GT40" To do any type of business in this country and in this state is real tough ( $$$$ ) I'm an " underground fiberglass prototype shop " The rules the EPA has now are tough to comply with. It's too expensive to do business legitimatly. The price of resin is like fuel..going up & up. the big hang-up now is the liability insurance you need on the chassis or product that one makes. Insurance on the cars is getting a little too expensive.. if you can get it.
MikeDD, I see you have established a price of $25,000.00 for a low dollar GT40 kit. That's the FFR way; build to the price. It might work!

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MikeDD:
"...I thought FFR was going to be the company
that did it. I guess that won't happen.
So will it be an existing manufacturer?
Or will it be a new player that opens the
door for the hundreds (not thousands)
that might buy if the price was lower?..."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If history is any indication, an existing manufacturer will not do it; they're already making a product that is selling and making them money. It's going to have to be someone with an innovative approach that will make it work. Before FFR came along, a Cobra was a $50K car minimum.

If a GT40 was available for a reasonable price, thousands could be sold. Not hundreds. There are already hundreds.

Your pal,
Meat.

 

[Mike Dozier]

Meat

The reason I limited my "forecast" to hundreds is that I don't know how many
Cobra owners would switch, or how many
Mustang owners would step up? No one knows.

Most Cobras will be faster in a drag race since the trans/rear can handle lots more HP
than the Getrag. And many people buy the
Cobra because they want open car motoring.

I don't think there are hundreds of GT40s
in the US now. ERA looks like they made 70
or so, and from what I've seen on the Forum,
most of the GTDs/Tornados are in the UK.
I'll bet there are less than 200 replicas
done or near done in the US. Not a lot.

Fully agree with you that the number could
grow big-time given the right product/price.
Hope it happens!

MikeD

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MikeDD:
"...The reason I limited my "forecast" to hundreds is that I don't know how many
Cobra owners would switch, or how many
Mustang owners would step up? No one knows.

Most Cobras will be faster in a drag race since the trans/rear can handle lots more HP
than the Getrag. And many people buy the
Cobra because they want open car motoring.

I don't think there are hundreds of GT40s
in the US now. ERA looks like they made 70
or so, and from what I've seen on the Forum,
most of the GTDs/Tornados are in the UK.
I'll bet there are less than 200 replicas
done or near done in the US. Not a lot.

Fully agree with you that the number could
grow big-time given the right product/price.
Hope it happens!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

U.S.? Who said anything about a limited area like that? There are hundreds of GT40 replicas out there. Not to thousands and thousands of donor cars just ripe for the pickin'!

I have a chassis designer in mind who I believe can do exactly what I'm looking for, and I'm doing my best to recruit a top-notch composites fella to sculpt out a body even as you read this!

I have a plan. It's currently under wraps, but as soon as I firm up a few details, I'll announce it to the world. Starting here first.

Your pal,
Meat.

 

Well,
I have a very strong suspicion that the USA will be getting an exact copy of the GT40 from two or three different companies over the next two years. I expect although this is not confirmed that Kirkham Motorsport will throw their hat into the ring with a Mk1 and MK11 GT40 on an exact monocoque chassis and original suspension.
I would also expect the re-emergence of the Mk V Safir under the GT40 banner to may be give Ford a run for their money with their new Ford GT.
Think about it, if Safir were not going back into the market surely they would have sold the GT40 name back to Ford at a reasonable price say $5 million.

I think that the race is on to bring an exact re-creation to market.

Regards
Chris

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Melia:
"...I think that the race is on to bring an exact re-creation to market..."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whew! Glad I'm not planning on getting in that race!

Your pal,
Meat.

 

[Guest]

FFR GT40. FFR can't make a door and hinge for a cobra that closes and lines up correctly. How could they make a GT40 door and hinge? The car is way too complicated to replicate at a cheap price. Cut too many corners and you'll end up with an car that requires so much labor to correct you would have been better off with a quality kit.

LLoyd FF1264 with ERA GT40 on order

 

[Howard Jones]

I'm sorry but I just can't believe that you can complete a car for 30K-35K on the west coast USA. Paint alone is gonna be 3K and thats if YOU do just about ALL the prep. Tires,Wheels not to mention the drive train it goes on and on. I am doing a GTD and have tried to do all the labor myself. I have made almost all my mods myself and have a way to go, but I'm way over that now. If you want to do any track work you must also put some good brakes on it. More money. Bud is right about one thing. A SAFE 150 mph car is gonna cost you money. I guess you can build a car that LOOKS like a GT40 and drive it around town. But a true supercar just can't be built cheap! What could be done is take a longer time and do the car in phases. This is my plan. Get the car done with the powertrain complete somthing on the order of 350Hp and a gearbox with the proper ratios in it. Drive it a while with primer and save up for a good paintjob. Then go on later and upgrade the brakes wheels tires etc. If the cost is spread out over 3-5 years it will not hurt as bad.

 

My thinking is that if I could buy just a (FFR style)GT40 kit, minus drivetrain ,rolling stock, and paint, for around $20,000 + or-, I would sell my
FFR right now!
I bet alot of Cobra builders would want to trade up to a GT40.
I'm not looking for a "track car", just a nice, performance street car that I could take to a couple open track events a year. Similar to what I use the Cobra for.
I guess if I paid big bucks for a GT40 kit I'd be pissed off that someone can build a car that looks just like mine(to most people)for alot less. I looked at a very high end Cobra at a show last Summer. I have to say that it was nicer than my FFR. But I don't think it was $35,000 nicer!

IMHO we don't need another Kirkham.
Boy I sure can ramble on!
RR

 

There are GT40 windshields available in the US at reasonable prices

 

[Mike Dozier]

Howard

I agree that getting a GT40 on the street
for $ 35k is not easy. But it can be done
if you start with a basic kit from NZ (and
maybe others), do all assembly and body prep,
and lay off the upgrades.

You're right that this won't be a supercar
in terms of brakes and horsepower, but if
executed properly, I don't see why it
wouldn't out perform 99% of the cars on the
road. And as you pointed out, you can upgrade
later on.

The real question of my thread is why must we
in the US have to import a kit to make this
happen? Can't someone in the US be clever/
efficient enought to offer a kit for
the same price as the boys down under?
I'd like to think so.

MikeD

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Howard Jones:
"...I'm sorry but I just can't believe that you can complete a car for 30K-35K on the west coast USA..."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's why I'm shooting for a price of ~$25K. It's much more believeable!

Paint depends on where you get it done. You can get an EXCELLENT paint job on a Cobra for ~$500...the trade off is in sweat equity; you do all the body prep yourself. Sure, the GT40 is a bit more intensive, but I can't imagine the paint being more than around $1K for a beautiful one-color basecoat/clearcoat.

Your pal,
Meat.

 

Well, after much introspection, business planning, and talking with the chassis fella, I'm going to announce it here first:

The only Single-donor GT40 replica will be priced at $14,900 U.S., FOB Santa Ana, CA. To be added to the email list, send an email to: [email protected]

Details to follow.

Your pal,
Meat.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by meat:
Factory Five had a great idea at an opportune time. However, there are a number of questions like (1) who designed the FFR chassis?; (2) where did that body come from?; (3) how did they treat the people who helped them?; (4) how do they treat their suppliers? that seem to get glossed over quite a bit. Things like bump steer, fiberglass quality, wiring, and lack of customer support don't get addressed. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So MEAT lets here some of the answers. You've obviously have them.

1.) If they did not design there own chassis then who did? It does have a lot of similarities w/ the Originals but thats as the closest thing I've seen to it.

2.) Who else's Cobra but FFR has the perky butt syndrom? I'm sure they had help w/ this but everybody has help making their molds.

3.) You imply they've mistreated people who've helped them. I'd like to know how. If you're refering to the www.cobraforum.com vs www.ffcobra.com stuff then you need to perform a reality check on life (then get one)

4.) You imply they've mistreated their suppliers. Who have the mistreated. If this is true stuff, then post it and stop the enmity towards FFR.

And the other issues you've brought up have been addressed in one form or another.

I appologize to everyone for my first post being a bit anti-social but if you know 'meat' then you should understand.

I came here from a thread on FFCobra.com that refer to this thread about FFR of the GT40s and got drawn into the enthusiasm. I would like to see a GT40 that is based on a donor concept w/ a good kit and support sometime in the future.

TAZ

[ January 16, 2003: Message edited by: TAZ ]

 

RR

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAZ:


So MEAT lets here some of the answers. You've obviously have them.

1.) If they did not design there own chassis then who did? It does have a lot of similarities w/ the Originals but thats as the closest thing I've seen to it.

2.) Who else's Cobra but FFR has the perky butt syndrom? I'm sure they had help w/ this but everybody has help making their molds.

3.) You imply they've mistreated people who've helped them. I'd like to know how. If you're refering to the www.cobraforum.com vs www.ffcobra.com stuff then you need to perform a reality check on life (then get one)

4.) You imply they've mistreated their suppliers. Who have the mistreated. If this is true stuff, then post it and stop the enmity towards FFR.

And the other issues you've brought up have been addressed in one form or another.

I appologize to everyone for my first post being a bit anti-social but if you know 'meat' then you should understand.

I came here from a thread on FFCobra.com that refer to this thread about FFR of the GT40s and got drawn into the enthusiasm. I would like to see a GT40 that is based on a donor concept w/ a good kit and support sometime in the future.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This forum is for GT40s. I'm sorry that you've chosen to come over to this forum, and use your posting abilities to attack me with your very first post.

While your actions in no way suprise me - in fact, it's SOP for you guys - it doesn't belong here.

If you have a problem with me, my email address is [email protected]. Feel free to email me there. If you have nothing to contribute to this forum in relation to GT40s, then I suggest that you take your childish animosity and ridiculously distorted views back to your little playpen.

Your pal,
Meat.

 

[Mark Worthington]

Hey guys, up until this now, this forum has been an island of refuge in the storm of BS and flame wars that occur in every other automotive forum I've seen on the internet. If you are going to argue with each other I'd like to be the first to suggest you do so elsewhere.

Back on topic (sort of), Meat, what auto do you propose to use as a single-donor car? If it doesn't use a Ford V8, then I think you've lost 80% of your target market. Honestly, the only thing that I can think of is a Pantera, and you're not going to sell many $15,000 GT40s to people if they have to buy a $20,000 Pantera donor. The water-cooled Porsches use torque tubes and there would be a lot of development work needed to mate the gearboxes up directly to an engine. Ditto for a Corvette powertrain, and neither of them are a Ford. I'm really curious to see what your $15,000 GT40 will look like. Frankly, I'm pretty skeptical, but I'd love to see you prove me wrong.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark Worthington:
"...Meat, what auto do you propose to use as a single-donor car? If it doesn't use a Ford V8, then I think you've lost 80% of your target market. Honestly, the only thing that I can think of is a Pantera, and you're not going to sell many $15,000 GT40s to people if they have to buy a $20,000 Pantera donor. The water-cooled Porsches use torque tubes and there would be a lot of development work needed to mate the gearboxes up directly to an engine. Ditto for a Corvette powertrain, and neither of them are a Ford. I'm really curious to see what your $15,000 GT40 will look like. Frankly, I'm pretty skeptical, but I'd love to see you prove me wrong..."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Okay, I can't actually tell you everything - yet - about the donor. Using a Porsche (I love the cars, mind you) is still a very expensive proposition, plus, it's rear-engined...sort of, so I don't think that dimensionally it would look right. I'm going completely mid-engined, and am not planning on using a Chevy. I'm very sorry to say this (because I'm just CHOMPING AT THE BIT TO DO IT!), but you're going to have to wait just a short while.

And, because a number of you know me and I'm sure that there are a few that would love to see me fall flat on my face, suffice it to say that - while I'm not going with a full monocoque chassis - I realize alot of people are looking. So the body I'm looking at putting out is going be pretty much spot on. This isn't a rebody, it's not ASPP like, and it should be 40" tall.

I promise that I will absolutely post everything about the car I can here and I will email everything to the email list ([email protected]) about this car. I'll get spy shots up as soon as they're available.

Please be patient!

Your pal,
Meat.

P.S. Just so you know, I WON'T be losing that 80%, nor will you have to get a Pantera...unless you want one!

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

I am going to have a wild guess but I have a feeling that your donor car is going to be a front drive V8 with an AUTOMATIC trans and the only Ford would be a Taurus SHO late model.
You can then have a transverse mounted drivetrain and have a Fiero on steroids type of driveline.
They are also independant supension all round and its easy to make a Macpherson strut a coilover setup.
What do you think ???
null

[ January 17, 2003: Message edited by: Fran Hall ]