YAHB (Yet another hopeful builder)

[Jeff W]

Hey all, long-time fan of the SL-C here that is finally in a position to actually begin some due diligence on a build. I've been checking out build threads for a couple years now to get an approximate idea of what is involved, but as with any Big Build Project, the variety of choices made by builders is far too wide to actually pin down a good cost. Experience: Built a Mustang back in the 90s, motor up, some wiring done, stereo installs, etc. Licensed aircraft mechanic, but haven't done anything with that since the early 90s. I've already got a fair chunk of change saved towards the purchase price, but I have a mid-90's BMW resto that needs to be finished before I can clear the garage for a new project. Nothing major, just the usual full suspension rebuild, paint, engine, interior... Figure that'll take a year and a half or so, but I'm going to start keeping an eye out for deals related to the SL-C to pre-purchase and defray some of the smaller the costs over time. Already got a floor lift kit for $300 under retail, with the bonus that it'll work for our other cars, too! Kit timeframe to buy - 4-7 years from now. Seems like a long time, but time really flies these days and I've been jonesing for one of these for at least a decade now, so I'm patient.

So why am I here if it's still so far away? I need to start budgeting and nailing down kit choices so when a pre-purchase is made time and money won't be wasted on something that doesn't work for whatever reason and then the item has to be sold or whatever at a loss.

With the kit choices I've made based on the SL-C site kit configuration tool I'm between $76K and $83K (prices sure have gone up since I started looking a decade ago, lol), the primary difference being a few carbon fiber choices vs standard fiberglass. Definitely picking up the Graziano and the associated required parts for mating up with an LS engine, I'm looking to hit around 600HP +/- 50, figure the engine/trans are easily the largest expenditure (~$25K) besides the car itself, followed by a good paint job, then the interior and misc parts.

The end goal of the car is for shows, but it will be a driver and not a trailer queen. No track time is expected. I expect 4 years minimum for a build timeframe.

All that said, here are my initial questions:

I've seen this car tossed around as costing a minimum kit price of about $46K. How is that even possible?

Based on the above info, what parts should NOT be included in the configuration or total price? IOW, based on builders' experience, what parts are better purchased 3rd party? I see a lot of people not using the Superlite made seats, buying different air conditioning brackets than offered, different digital dashes, etc... (I love Alan's work with the Infinitybox setup and the capabilities that IB offers, but I dislike the KOSO dash and prefer the AIM Strada which doesn't seem to play well with IB, there's no info really getting the two to work together...) I assume these changes will result in parts being left at Superlite and a commensurate price change.

Related to the above, what do you wish you hadn't bought, or wish you did buy from Superlite? (Not looking to bash Superlite if a part wasn't a good fit, I'm just curious what works better with the least headache)

I think most people that take on a kit like this aren't complete mechanical rookies, so there shouldn't be too many surprises for builders, but what was the biggest cost gotcha that you didn't expect?

What was the biggest external gotcha? IOW, you've got your kit and a garage full of "basic tools" as suggested by Superlite, but as you got into the build you realized...?

Biggest and/or best tooling expenditure? I didn't realize I'd need... The job was so much easier with...

What was the biggest savings you realized by DIY?

Cost to get the Graziano re-geared? Can't find that anywhere...

I'll be contacting (Fran?) Superlite hopefully in the near future to take a look at the factory and maybe get to sit in an actual car, I do occasionally get to be in the Detroit area for work.

That's just a few things that have come up as I've gone through all the info out there, I'm sure I'll have plenty more questions as time goes by. Thanks to all the folks that have shared their builds online, those are a huge help in understanding the choices, difficulties, and work involved. Hearing those engines start up for the first time is so, so worth it.

 

[Kyle]

I’m building mine out of a 1 car carport. I expect to have 50 in it when completed. But I also got a huge discount on eBay. A lot of guys are buying brand new crate engines. If you’re a mechanic then I’d buy an L92 straight from the junkyard for 3k. Throw in a cam and supporting mods, you’ll be at close to 600 flywheel. Put in a nice Holley system.

Things I wish I had were a lift, more space.

I know some people have regretted buying the carbon fiber pieces because they still need to be fitted. Also carbon fiber skinning is dirt cheap to do

 

[Jeff W]

Thanks for the reply! Carbon fiber is definitely something I’ve been mulling over after seeing several build logs choose to skin the glass pieces when noting that the CF parts were essentially skinned Fg anyway. The Cf tub in particular, as I plan on automotive carpet with Cf trim for a lot of it in order to avoid scuffing. No point in forking out the extra $ for something that will end up hidden. I don’t have any problem wirth giving this a go, I’ve done some some kevlar and other work before and enjoyed it.

I’ve heavily debated buying a pre-built engine vs a self-built. While I think building an engine wouldn’t be too big of a deal, it’s been a reeeeeaallly long time since my last build and I’d have to re-buy some tools plus review a lot of engine build techniques to achieve the kind of quality and power I want. For decent forged and other components capable of the RPMs and power I’d like the cost difference between a crate and self-build isn’t very far apart. The builders can afford wholesale and quantity purchase and don’t get hosed with retail pricing per part like I would. Plus, my time is worth something, too. A full engine build with sourcing parts would add a significant percentage to the overall build time.

You’re saying $50k over kit price or you got a steal of a deal for the kit and 50 is the rough price in total?

 

[Jeff W]

Well, the BMW rebuild has sort of self-corrected. Bought a newer model that has a better engine and less miles than any car we own for a good price, once we sell the old one we’ll only be out $500. Not bad. Get to keep socking away cash for the SLC.

 

[Hector]

I did the Graziano gear change in a friend's garage . Totally doable, but the gears are $2k, just FYI, I can help you if you decide to go that route.
I would not spend the money for the infinity box system, that can save you quite a bit. But you have to figure out all the wiring.

Plan to spend some money on fiberglass, and you WILL have to work with it, close out panels, interior parts , body work , console , the list goes on

you will need extra parts for a/c . and you will need to crimp hoses.

Insulation is expensive , but a must have if you do not want to cook inside and want to carry a conversation inside the car.

Do you want a nice stereo and speakers?, rear view camera? since the engine is right behind you

Upgraded tail lights and headlights or you want the original super cheap Chrysler tail lights ,

you will need an alternator, battery, and all the cables to connect them

Lots and lots of bolts , washers , nuts, clamps, it adds up believe me.

You need to replace the aluminum spacers throughout the suspension for steel ones, That costs a few bucks, I think there was like 50 of them .

oil catch can? most people have one

If you use an LS engine you will need a steam vent system , extra water tanks , water hoses ,

Lots and lots of fittings for fuel system, a/c , brakes, clutch .

You will need an air intake and air filter.

You will need a muffler and maybe catalytic converters

Upgraded mounting system for a/c compressor .

angle and flat aluminum to make brackets , support frame for battery and extra components , close out panels such as between tank and engine .

Don't bother ordering the KOSO unit , the AIM unit is much much better .

Don't forget you need to buy tires, not cheap.

The bottom line , there are a ton of unforeseen expenses that keep adding up , on top of the obvious ones. You will need an extra 10- 20K minimum to end up with a decent car , and the sky is the limit after that , depending on your choices and wishes.

I hope this is helpful and Good luck !!!

 

[Jeff W]

Thanks for this! Planning for all the unplanned extras is definitely included in the price, I’ve been looking through all the build logs and noted a lot of the changes people have made as well as shipped parts that weren’t really done right like the washers you mention. Wish there was a go-to list for mandatory fixes instead of sifting through a dozen logs and having to figure it out by chance. Thanks to other builders there are several body and interior mods I’d like to accomplish, so that’s going to take a lot of work. As for all the extra parts like tanks, fittings, etc., yep...that’s definitely going to be part of a job like this and why I’d expect to take ~4 years to do it, 3 years of that 4 to be waiting to get parts, lol.

You say skip the infinitybox? I’d kinda like to take advantage of some of the features it has, like automatic doors, alarm and the like. Any particular reason you don’t like it?

 

[Hector]

Wire sizes, not big enough to deal with fuel pumps and larger fans ,you need relays and a large wire 12v source I also have a compressor for an air horn, also a relay for jaguar f type headlight ballasts, you also need an rpm controller for the a/c compressor , the list is long of all components that the infinity box system won't support directly.
If you don't mind paying close to $2k to operate lights stereo , doors , alarm and so on, I guess is OK but it can be done for a fraction of that , and most people lately have gone that route,
Yes, unfortunately there is not a comprehensive list of must do upgrades, so the forum is your best friend, people chime in and help you all the time, as you go along and get stuck here and there.

 

[JP Verweij]

Wiring could be easy salvaged from a scrapyard. All are colourcoded and easy to trace using a workshopmanual of the donor car. You even get the fusebox and relaisbox going this route.

I took my loom out of a two door Ford Fiesta which contained all the basic funtions I needed including the fusebox. I spliced the front engine loom to the back.
Front & rear lights indicator lights brake lights horn fog lamp wiper etc etc its all there. Easy to follow using the workshop manual.

Think about what functions are essential for your build and find yourself a basic two door vehicle that containes those functions on a scrapyard and salvage that loom.

 

[Ron McCall]

Jeff W.
The cost for re-gearing the Grazino transaxle is $1,150 . That includes completely tearing the unit down, inspecting the internal parts,modifying the front section of the case to clear the drop gear ( this is only necessary some of the time dependent on the case casting and drop gear ratio selected but done every time regardless) , removing the 4wd portion of the trans, sealing the unit with a 2 piece billet plug and a carbon fiber plate to keep debris from entering the bellhousing area, and re-assembling the unit. The cost of the gears is +/- $2k.
If the hears are in hand ( purchased from HCF Autosport and drop shipped to me) ,I can typically have the unit ready to ship out in 1/3 days from
receiving it. HCF also offers new units for sale and an upgraded clutch assembly if needed .
Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks,
Ron

 

[Jeff W]

Wire sizes, not big enough to deal with fuel pumps and larger fans ,you need relays and a large wire 12v source I also have a compressor for an air horn, also a relay for jaguar f type headlight ballasts, you also need an rpm controller for the a/c compressor , the list is long of all components that the infinity box system won't support directly.
If you don't mind paying close to $2k to operate lights stereo , doors , alarm and so on, I guess is OK but it can be done for a fraction of that , and most people lately have gone that route,
Yes, unfortunately there is not a comprehensive list of must do upgrades, so the forum is your best friend, people chime in and help you all the time, as you go along and get stuck here and there.

That’s unfortunate. That box is pretty “finite” for something called an infinitybox. I was kinda hoping for one-stop shopping for car systems control, I like what Allan’s done with the cars he’a had in his care using IB, but there’s more than one way to skin a car...I mean, cat. Don’t see any reason to have my stereo headunit choices limited by infinitybox compatibility. Might be better to look for a higher end alarm system with extra outputs for keyless entry and remote start in that case, there are a few like Viper or Compustar that have multiple options.

 

[Jeff W]

Jeff W.
The cost for re-gearing the Grazino transaxle is $1,150 . That includes completely tearing the unit down, inspecting the internal parts,modifying the front section of the case to clear the drop gear ( this is only necessary some of the time dependent on the case casting and drop gear ratio selected but done every time regardless) , removing the 4wd portion of the trans, sealing the unit with a 2 piece billet plug and a carbon fiber plate to keep debris from entering the bellhousing area, and re-assembling the unit. The cost of the gears is +/- $2k.
If the hears are in hand ( purchased from HCF Autosport and drop shipped to me) ,I can typically have the unit ready to ship out in 1/3 days from
receiving it. HCF also offers new units for sale and an upgraded clutch assembly if needed .
Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks,
Ron

So 11000 (trans) + 1150 (work) + 2000 (gearing/finish parts) for a finished Graziano, is that what I understand?

Thanks Ron.

 

[Kyle]

Coach Controls, Street Rod Wiring Kits, Universal Wire Kits, and Wiring Harness Accessories

Coach Controls offers a modern OEM-style universal wiring system in easy-to-install wiring kit form. Our product is used as a Street Rod Wiring Kits, a Universal Wire Kits, and a Wiring Harness Accessories. It provides control of all Ignition, Accessory, Starter, Cooling Fan, HVAC, Horn...

coachcontrols.com

 

[Jeff W]

Coach Controls, Street Rod Wiring Kits, Universal Wire Kits, and Wiring Harness Accessories

Coach Controls offers a modern OEM-style universal wiring system in easy-to-install wiring kit form. Our product is used as a Street Rod Wiring Kits, a Universal Wire Kits, and a Wiring Harness Accessories. It provides control of all Ignition, Accessory, Starter, Cooling Fan, HVAC, Horn...

coachcontrols.com

Looks like a standard kit for a good price. Is that what you went with, Kyle?

 

[Del]

Just in case you hadn't come across the wiki:

SL-C Wiki

slc-wiki.squarespace.com

 

[Jeff W]

Just in case you hadn't come across the wiki:

SL-C Wiki

slc-wiki.squarespace.com

I've definitely been there. FBFW, it's pretty generic as to the information therein, very few specifics. Many items are RCR purchase centered - IOW, "most people buy the Graziano from us" or "we have the infinitybox, but some people opt to go with another electrical system" kinda thing.

 

[Jeff W]

Instead of starting a new thread, with all the build thread archaeology I've been doing, I have a few more questions:

What's the consensus on the parking brake issue? I've seen some conflicting results with the E-Stop, what has been the best solution? Wheel chocks?

Electrical system...Infinitybox does a lot, but also doesn't work with a lot. I'm leaning towards a basic 3rd party wiring AIO setup without frills and adding functionality like remote doors, alarm etc. with an upscale remote alarm system.


Mandatory fixes..the vehicle arrives with issues on delivery. What mandatory ADs (to borrow from aviation, required fixes and inspections) did buyers discover were design errors and need to be rectified before progressing with whatever plan they had for their car? I think the adjustible shocks had an issue accross the board for many builders....?

I'M sure I'll think of more... Still have a very solid pan for purchase in early to mid-2022. Sorry for all the questions, trying to get my due diligence solid.

As always, thank you for any information you wish to share.

I've started an unpublished Blog for my hopeful build log, I'd appreciate any valuable experiences to share along the way. Many builders share the results of their problem-solving skills, but not the discovery and the workaround thought process. I hope to offer a more verbose version that allows more introspection and help for potential builders. Not going to be publishing anything until the Big Purchase has been made. Can't put the cart before the horse. Already got approval from the other half, so that's a big hurdle, lol.
(Edited by request of poster)

 

[Johan]

Jeff,
When it comes to RCR parking brake it was just not enough clamping force to pass inspection here in EU, I don’t know about the E-Stop. I went with the Tesla EPB and bought a controller online, very efficient as parking brake not to be used above 10-15 km/h. That is not an emergency brake.

Infinity elec, mine was on back order so I traded it for something else with RCR. My opinion is that it’s over kill for a car like SLC, I went with Leash Pro Board, it’s a 1/10 of the price compared to Infinity and does all you need.

 

[Kyle]

Instead of starting a new thread, with all the build thread archaeology I've been doing, I have a few more questions:

What's the consensus on the parking brake issue? I've seen some conflicting results with the E-Stop, what has been the best solution? Wheel chocks?

Electrical system...Infinitybox does a lot, but also doesn't work with a lot. I'm leaning towards a basic 3rd party wiring AIO setup without frills and adding functionality like remote doors, alarm etc. with an upscale remote alarm system.


Mandatory fixes..the vehicle arrives with issues on delivery. What mandatory ADs (to borrow from aviation, required fixes and inspections) did buyers discover were design errors and need to be rectified before progressing with whatever plan they had for their car? I think the adjustible shocks had an issue accross the board for many builders....?

I'M sure I'll think of more... Still have a very solid pan for purchase in early to mid-2022. Sorry for all the questions, trying to get my due diligence solid.

As always, thank you for any information you wish to share.

I've started an unpublished Blog for my hopeful build log, I'd appreciate any valuable experiences to share along the way. Many builders share the results of their problem-solving skills, but not the discovery and the workaround thought process. I hope to offer a more verbose version that allows more introspection and help for potential builders. Not going to be publishing anything until the Big Purchase has been made. Can't put the cart before the horse. Already got approval from the other half, so that's a big hurdle, lol.

Edit: Please delete this edit and post #16. Don't know why it posted like this.

Yes I used the system I linked to you. The coupe 23. Very simple to wire and link to the GM column even. I used a push button start as well.

I will be doing the Tesla parking brake too eventually. No hills in south Florida so I’m waiting a bit. Price will be close to $400 when it’s all done just for that.

I didn’t have much luck with the stainless pre bent brake lines so I opted to use Nicopp lines. Most of everything else has been straight use from the factory. Most of my issues were because I bought the kit second hand.

 

[Alan P]

I'm using the Tesla caliper, but instead of an off the shelf controller, I'm using an arduino. The benefit here is I read the vehicle speed from the ECU and can vary the brake pressure based on speed, allowing me to use the electric caliper as an emergency brake as well as a parking brake.

 

[Jeff W]

Great, thanks for the info. There are a couple different wiring "boxes" recommended now - Coachcontrols and Leash Pro...guess they each pretty much do the same thing.

Alan, that sounds like an interesting idea. I'm starting to lean toward getting some speed sensors set up for ABS/traction control. There's a lot of aftermarket stuff out there that seems primarily ECU based and offers things like "launch control", but not real traction control.