#2244 MKII Holman Moody car pics

[Ron Earp]

Thanks much for being considerate about the rules of the forum. Since the thread was going into an advertising direction I just moved it to the Cars For Sale area since you had the proper credentials to advertise anyhow. Hope that is no problem.

Ron

You have credentials for advertising a car as an individual, but not as a company in the business of selling cars, ie, Welcome to GAS Motors. I changed your user name to "Ken G" until we can sort out of you're here as a business or an individual selling his own car. Sorry to be blunt but the rules are to be enforced fairly.

Thanks,
Ron

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

Nice car, but ought to have a ZF or T44 not the ZFQ.

 

[Keith]

Nice car, but ought to have a ZF or T44 not the ZFQ.

Why? :huh:

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

The T44, if you could afford one, is correct for the car that they are attempting to duplicate, or replicate, whatever you would term it. And, for what it's worth, there has been one reported instance of case failure on a ZFQ in a similar application- except that the engine in that instance was not as robust as a 427 race motor.

T44s are available, from Mike Teske in North Carolina, I think is where. They are very expensive, but they are what came in those Mark II cars. ZFs seem to be able to stand that kind of power and torque- the Pantera crowd beat them up all the time and they seem to hold up.

I think it's a nice car, and they obviously went to a lot of trouble to replicate features of the original third-place 1966 LeMans GT40. It's well done. The transaxle seems the only thing that is noticeably different from the original car.

 

[Keith]

Well, give a dog a bad name then..... :thumbsdown:

It was an original box and when it broke it was not reported to the manufacturer for whatever reason. ZFQ has since been modified to prevent this happening, it can be superfinished for more extreme applications, it was the only failure out of 80 units, it was produced in the first place because ZF's were not available therefore creating a one year waiting list for SPF's to be finished, Denis's own SPF has one fitted and races it, I could go on, but please try and be fair to a manufacturer who stepped up to the plate with a box designed to be a direct replacement for the ZF when you couldn't get one. To the untrained eye it even looks like a ZF and, as it is more modern, has better ratios available as well.

Finally, the Roush 427 has more torque and there are many ZFQ's fitted to that combo without complaint and anyway, the car is a replica so how can any part be 'correct' for it!

 

[Erich]

The T44, if you could afford one, is correct for the car that they are attempting to duplicate, or replicate, whatever you would term it. And, for what it's worth, there has been one reported instance of case failure on a ZFQ in a similar application- except that the engine in that instance was not as robust as a 427 race motor.

It seems to me that there is probably a report of every transaxle available for/in a GT40 that, at some point, had problems or "blew up". I think with "enough" horsepower and depending on your driving habits and environment (for example agressive race track duty on slicks), one can break almost any transaxle...whether it is a ZFQ, RBT, Porsche, Audi, Renault and even the great ZF.

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

I think it is a nice car and well-done. My point is this: this car isn't just another SPF GT40 Mark II car; this is a car that was intended to copy a very well-known GT40 Mark II, trhe Bucknum/Hutcherson car that finished third at LeMans in 1966. That was their avowed intention. So, if you are going to build a copy of that car, it ought to have a T44 transaxle. And I was actually wrong when I mentioned a ZF- that isn't correct for the car, although for all I know they may have tried ZFs in period behind 427 Ford motors. But the car they were emulating had a T44 transaxle. And when you are building a car as a tribute, or a copy, or whatever you want to call it, accuracy does matter and faithfulness to the original does matter. Hence my remark. And, ironically enough, as to the issue of transaxles blowing up, it was the T44 transaxle that experienced all those failures, at Sebring or Daytona, I can't recall which, when only one GT40 limped home due to all the transaxles failing. But other than that, it was a very reliable unit. Two LeMans victories were achieved with T44s- 1966 and 1967. ZFs were in the winning car in 68 and 69.

 

[Seymour Snerd]

So, if you are going to build a copy of that car, it ought to have a T44 transaxle....And when you are building a car as a tribute, or a copy, or whatever you want to call it, accuracy does matter and faithfulness to the original does matter.

So, along with the T44 we need:

1. Internal-chain-driven dry-sump system, tank, etc.
2. Deleted A/C
3. HM dash with SW instruments.
4. K-H brakes
5. Air ducting to all four corners
6. "Boeing 707" wipers
7. SW Fuel pumps
8. .... etc....

But SS exhaust, Le Mans manifold and rods, gold paint, etc. is certainly a good start.

 

[Seymour Snerd]

...it was the T44 transaxle that experienced all those failures, at Sebring or Daytona, I can't recall which, when only one GT40 limped home due to all the transaxles failing...QUOTE]

I believe that was a production issue with incorrect heat treatment of one part, not a design problem with the gearbox.

 

[Jac Mac]

Woof Woof, give the dogs a bone...each , doesnt pay to voice an opinion around here does it!!!

 

[Rich Roy]

I remember the '67 Mk 4's were painted "Ferrari red" just to piss-off Enzo.

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

That's right, it was a manufacturing defect in the gearboxes.

 

[Keith]

Overall T44 was an amazing sucess given the development time frame. Pity they didn't make more but it's only a Toploader with some other wooden bits isn't it Jac? :thumbsup:

 

[Jac Mac]

Overall T44 was an amazing sucess given the development time frame. Pity they didn't make more but it's only a Toploader with some other wooden bits isn't it Jac? :thumbsup:

Yep, as long as you transform the wood for bits of alloy, actually if you really want to make one for todays world I think [being totally one eyed] mine is better than the original as it uses some newer mass produced parts, rather than the very limited production parts (read expensive) in the originals, these bits would probably take a lot more power too.

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

The T44 contained the internals from the NASCAR Galaxie transmission repackaged into a transaxle and including the rear axle set from the NASCAR cars also, I think. JM, I didn't know you were building T44s; that is quite a project. The only other person doing this is Mike Teske, AFAIK. I don't know how many T44s were made in period but it can't be very many of them.

 

[Jac Mac]

While the T44 used many parts from the top loader 4 speed, it didnt use anything from the Ford 9" rear end assy. I believe from all my research that it was a virtual 'clean sheet' design in that area by Weissman as it used their 'sprag' differential assy, The R&P origin might be able to be traced back to a production item from somewhere in the USA, but it has so many revised dimensions that it might as well be a special part. I think this is a major factor in the rather high cost of the current offerings
Interesting thing is that while reseaching this build I actually came up with a setup that would allow me to build a Replica of the transaxle that would have been totally dimensionally correct to the original T44 & probably just as strong, but by choosing some other more available parts with higher torque ratings I have decided on my current setup...which to some people, yourself included Jimbo, is probably not original enough...
I should also point out that this is only a project for me currently..not a commercial venture, although I wouldnt rule that out in the future if it all goes to plan... pic attached was taken some time ago & there has been a little progress since

 

[Keith]

See? Wood is good :thumbsup:

Tell me it's a little more advanced these days Jac. I'm a bit worried about Gribble Worm mate.. :worried:

 

[Jac Mac]

See? Wood is good :thumbsup:

Tell me it's a little more advanced these days Jac. I'm a bit worried about Gribble Worm mate.. :worried:

I understand your concern about Gribble Worm Keith with your marine investments, not really a concern for me though since its unlikely that your floating fund & my transaxle project are unlikely to ever share the same dry dock

 

[Keith]

Maybe the same wrecking yard though :thumbsup:

I only thought about Gribble because I hear you had a pretty wet summer Jac.

And now back to Holman & Moody MKII look alike!

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

Oh, my car has plenty of nonoriginal stuff on it. Like Wilwood brakes, like 44IDF carburetors, like AFR heads, like Mark V uprights, like Heim joints instead of all those trick ball ends and Schaefer bearings... the list goes on and on. I think I was rude in the way I pointed out that the gold car ought to have a T44 and my apologies for it....a tribute is not the same thing as an exact copy, and I ought to have kept my mouth shut.