350 Chevy
- Thread starter Martin Weigold
- Start date
I think you will find that the Chevy motor is about 100 lb heavier then a comparable Ford. Also, resale value will suffer significantly. Then there is allways having to answer the question "why did you put a chevy..." A friend of mine (and corvette lover) built a Contemporary Cobra with a Chevy crate motor. The car was fantastically finished and he had trouble selling it for ~$35k. I have never seen a Contemporary in comparable condidtion with a Ford motor sell anywhere near this low. He also hated the the constant "why did you..."
First - Hersh, aren't you still going with
a Levy Stage 3 306?
-WARNING-
All of the following views are my opinions.
These opinions are meant for entertainment
and informational purposes only. They are
not meant to determine who is right and who
is wrong!
Some things I've discovered over the years:
Chevy's are still cheaper to build up.
A well built Ford is just as good as a well
built Chevy, just a little more expensive.
And, GT40 specific:
A Chevy in a GT40 just doesn't seem right
to me. Don't get me wrong, I grew up as a
die-hard GM fan, but when I fell in lust
for the 40, I can only see Ford iron/aluminum
in it.
Gordon Levy has built some great Ford motors,
his high revvin 306 hit somewhere around
450HP IIRC, but his destroked 351, ooooh my!
Wasn't it around 700HP?
A good 331 will hit over 400HP with ease,
and good forged internals and a girdle, and
the fact that the wrist pin doesn't intersect
the oil ring (unlike most 342/347 strokers),
longevity shouldn't be an issue.
I still have yet to start down the build road,
but I might start on the engine soon. Problem
is, I still can't decide between a 331 or
a 306. The 331 seems to be the easy way to
get the HP, but do I want that much torque?
And, the sound of a 306 at 7000+ RPM is
sweet sweet music. Now, if the 331 could rev
that high ...
Ian
a Levy Stage 3 306?
-WARNING-
All of the following views are my opinions.
These opinions are meant for entertainment
and informational purposes only. They are
not meant to determine who is right and who
is wrong!
Some things I've discovered over the years:
Chevy's are still cheaper to build up.
A well built Ford is just as good as a well
built Chevy, just a little more expensive.
And, GT40 specific:
A Chevy in a GT40 just doesn't seem right
to me. Don't get me wrong, I grew up as a
die-hard GM fan, but when I fell in lust
for the 40, I can only see Ford iron/aluminum
in it.
Gordon Levy has built some great Ford motors,
his high revvin 306 hit somewhere around
450HP IIRC, but his destroked 351, ooooh my!
Wasn't it around 700HP?
A good 331 will hit over 400HP with ease,
and good forged internals and a girdle, and
the fact that the wrist pin doesn't intersect
the oil ring (unlike most 342/347 strokers),
longevity shouldn't be an issue.
I still have yet to start down the build road,
but I might start on the engine soon. Problem
is, I still can't decide between a 331 or
a 306. The 331 seems to be the easy way to
get the HP, but do I want that much torque?
And, the sound of a 306 at 7000+ RPM is
sweet sweet music. Now, if the 331 could rev
that high ...
Ian
G
Guest
Guest
Wow Martin, you sure hit a nerve on this one!
How do you feel about politics and religious beliefs?
Seriously, this discussion just goes to show
once again the DIVERSE group on the Forum.
And that's a good thing. How boring it would
be if we all thought alike.
Now for my opinion (like belly buttons you know...)
I see no problem with customizing a car
to suit one's tastes. What I do have a problem with is people who do something
"odd" and then complain when they get negative feedback. What the heck did you
think Ford fans would say if you installed a VW engine in that Mustang?
Gee what a neat idea?
If people like that will get under your skin,
then don't install a Chevy. It's not worth
the aggravation. It's a fact that 99% of
the car world expects to see a Ford engine
in a GT40.
MikeD
[ March 18, 2002: Message edited by: MikeD ]
How do you feel about politics and religious beliefs?
Seriously, this discussion just goes to show
once again the DIVERSE group on the Forum.
And that's a good thing. How boring it would
be if we all thought alike.
Now for my opinion (like belly buttons you know...)
I see no problem with customizing a car
to suit one's tastes. What I do have a problem with is people who do something
"odd" and then complain when they get negative feedback. What the heck did you
think Ford fans would say if you installed a VW engine in that Mustang?
Gee what a neat idea?
If people like that will get under your skin,
then don't install a Chevy. It's not worth
the aggravation. It's a fact that 99% of
the car world expects to see a Ford engine
in a GT40.
MikeD
[ March 18, 2002: Message edited by: MikeD ]
What a fantastic and enjoyable topic this is, I hope it runs and runs! This all started on Saturday afternoon in my workshop,when Martin,myself and Dave Milham our Engine man stood around the car and pondered what to put in the large hole where I had just removed the engine. We debated what seemed like most options open to us, and then proceeded,as you do,into the realms of fantasy and the wilder ideas. I have always loved the Chevy350, but I have also built several cars to the most exacting requirements of originality, so I can see both sides. But I also have, as all engineers have, this little want to do something different each time, and Martin has not thrown his hands up in horror----yet!
Hey Hersh,
Love the reminiscing! I often wish I was
around for that era. Fortunately for me, my
dad was, and he was into the scene.
I'm not the kind of guy that says a Ford
must have a Ford, and a Chevy must have a
Chevy (although, in that case, there truly is
no reason NOT to! Unless you're a sick and
twisted psycho with an endless supply of
money, time, and general resources --
would that Ferrari V12 fit in my Vette? kinda
person
)
To wit:
My '72 240Z came this close "||" to getting
a Ford 289 dropped in it. Would've brought
the weight distribution almost to 50/50, and
the dizzy stayed up front. I was going to go
for the full Cobra set up, oval cleaner, etc.
When that seemed like a more long term project,
I then looked at a nice 6 pack manifold.
My '72 Firebird Formula 350 was going to have
it's already unoriginal Pontiac 400 swapped
with a Chevy 350 ( I know, it's still GM,
but, die hard Pontiac guys shudder at the
thought, and it meant swapping every accessory
in the engine bay between driver's side to
passenger side.) But the Muncie 4 spd had
to stay!
Both of those decisions were made easy due to
the fact that the 240's 2.4L threw a rod, and
the Firebird's 400 came rotted out (boy, was
I going through radiators!
) Of
course, both machines were sold off before
the dreams turned to reality
The Z did
eventually wind up with a tweaked 2.8L from
a '75 280Z, somewhere around 210HP.
And of course, one of my favorite Shelby
GT350s was one I saw in Hot Rodding many
moons ago: owned at the time by Bela Lugosi
Jr., it had a bowtie 350 in it! Oh, it had
a neat idea for those whose locales require
front plates. They took the license plate
bracket and spring from something that had
the gas filler behind the plate in the rear,
flipped it, and mounted it up front in the
air dam. At speed, the wind would push the
plate down to allow more airflow, but at
rest, the plate would spring back up.
But, that was then and this is now. For my
tastes, a FoMoCo engine in the 40. But, if
someone wants a Chev, or a Maserati, or even
a twin turbo Rover, so be it. And somewhere
on this board are pix of all 3 of those
setups
Ian
Love the reminiscing! I often wish I was
around for that era. Fortunately for me, my
dad was, and he was into the scene.
I'm not the kind of guy that says a Ford
must have a Ford, and a Chevy must have a
Chevy (although, in that case, there truly is
no reason NOT to! Unless you're a sick and
twisted psycho with an endless supply of
money, time, and general resources --
would that Ferrari V12 fit in my Vette? kinda
person
To wit:
My '72 240Z came this close "||" to getting
a Ford 289 dropped in it. Would've brought
the weight distribution almost to 50/50, and
the dizzy stayed up front. I was going to go
for the full Cobra set up, oval cleaner, etc.
When that seemed like a more long term project,
I then looked at a nice 6 pack manifold.
My '72 Firebird Formula 350 was going to have
it's already unoriginal Pontiac 400 swapped
with a Chevy 350 ( I know, it's still GM,
but, die hard Pontiac guys shudder at the
thought, and it meant swapping every accessory
in the engine bay between driver's side to
passenger side.) But the Muncie 4 spd had
to stay!
Both of those decisions were made easy due to
the fact that the 240's 2.4L threw a rod, and
the Firebird's 400 came rotted out (boy, was
I going through radiators!
course, both machines were sold off before
the dreams turned to reality
eventually wind up with a tweaked 2.8L from
a '75 280Z, somewhere around 210HP.
And of course, one of my favorite Shelby
GT350s was one I saw in Hot Rodding many
moons ago: owned at the time by Bela Lugosi
Jr., it had a bowtie 350 in it! Oh, it had
a neat idea for those whose locales require
front plates. They took the license plate
bracket and spring from something that had
the gas filler behind the plate in the rear,
flipped it, and mounted it up front in the
air dam. At speed, the wind would push the
plate down to allow more airflow, but at
rest, the plate would spring back up.
But, that was then and this is now. For my
tastes, a FoMoCo engine in the 40. But, if
someone wants a Chev, or a Maserati, or even
a twin turbo Rover, so be it. And somewhere
on this board are pix of all 3 of those
setups
Ian
MikeD,
I'm having fun with this topic too. We all
have our own ideas as to what is correct.
I guess my point of view isn't as obvious.
I have a Midstates Cobra body on a EM frame
with 88 vette suspension. It has a Fiero
steering column,seats from a 1985 Mitsubishi,
67 camaro gas tank, 87 Regal master cylinder,
66 buick wagon radiator. The brake and clutch
pedal were made by me. This thing sounds like
a nightmare but anyone who has seen my car
knows better. For over 12yrs I have jumped in and turned the key and recieved reliable and fun transportation. I wanted to build it my way, I had no intention of replicating the Shelby cars. I like the look of the body and that was it. I have never tried to pass it off as a real Cobra. There are no badges or placards on my car.
Check my site, there is a picture there.
Hersh
http://www.gt40andcobralover.com/my__toys.htm
I'm having fun with this topic too. We all
have our own ideas as to what is correct.
I guess my point of view isn't as obvious.
I have a Midstates Cobra body on a EM frame
with 88 vette suspension. It has a Fiero
steering column,seats from a 1985 Mitsubishi,
67 camaro gas tank, 87 Regal master cylinder,
66 buick wagon radiator. The brake and clutch
pedal were made by me. This thing sounds like
a nightmare but anyone who has seen my car
knows better. For over 12yrs I have jumped in and turned the key and recieved reliable and fun transportation. I wanted to build it my way, I had no intention of replicating the Shelby cars. I like the look of the body and that was it. I have never tried to pass it off as a real Cobra. There are no badges or placards on my car.
Check my site, there is a picture there.
Hersh
G
Guest
Guest
To all you builders,
You have my permission to use any of the three engines, made by Ford, Chevrolet or Chrysler in your cars. If you should need advise on the use of other engines, please contact me. I would like to see one of these cars with a 360 Chrysler in it.
You have my permission to use any of the three engines, made by Ford, Chevrolet or Chrysler in your cars. If you should need advise on the use of other engines, please contact me. I would like to see one of these cars with a 360 Chrysler in it.
MWGT40
Supporter
Wow,
I didn't appreciate what a controversy this would cause. Thought I would check in to see if there were a couple of messages or so - can't believe there are two pages worth!
I didn't anticipate the GM/Ford thing I guess as we do not really have this in Europe (or the UK at least). I expected the controversial bit to be those who wanted originality over those who just wanted the best car for the money. Anyhow, I am glad to see that everybody is speaking again!
I think that valid arguments have been made on all sides which unfortunately still leaves me a little confused about which way to go. However, I should have detailed costings of the various options from Frank and Dave in the next few days. I am swaying in favour of keeping the FOrd block at the moment.
I also discovered yesterday that the Chevy 350 in Keith's Ultima is actually the Bowtie version and was considerably more expensive than I thought! So back to the drawing board!
Thanks, Martin
I didn't appreciate what a controversy this would cause. Thought I would check in to see if there were a couple of messages or so - can't believe there are two pages worth!
I didn't anticipate the GM/Ford thing I guess as we do not really have this in Europe (or the UK at least). I expected the controversial bit to be those who wanted originality over those who just wanted the best car for the money. Anyhow, I am glad to see that everybody is speaking again!
I think that valid arguments have been made on all sides which unfortunately still leaves me a little confused about which way to go. However, I should have detailed costings of the various options from Frank and Dave in the next few days. I am swaying in favour of keeping the FOrd block at the moment.
I also discovered yesterday that the Chevy 350 in Keith's Ultima is actually the Bowtie version and was considerably more expensive than I thought! So back to the drawing board!
Thanks, Martin
G
Guest
Guest
Good Luck Martin,
Sounds like you have LOTS of free advice
givers from BOTH sides of the Pond.
Hershal
I do understand where you are coming from.
Once you decide to "customize" a car,
what difference does it make?
Well...my observation is that car crazies
be it Ford, GM, or Chrysler will seem to cut
you a lot of slack on Resto-mods EXCEPT
if you change engine brand. There seems to be
some sort of spiritual connection between
the car model and the engine that cannot
be broken without angering the Gods.
Better keep a rabbits foot in your Cobra!
MikeD
Sounds like you have LOTS of free advice
givers from BOTH sides of the Pond.
Hershal
I do understand where you are coming from.
Once you decide to "customize" a car,
what difference does it make?
Well...my observation is that car crazies
be it Ford, GM, or Chrysler will seem to cut
you a lot of slack on Resto-mods EXCEPT
if you change engine brand. There seems to be
some sort of spiritual connection between
the car model and the engine that cannot
be broken without angering the Gods.
Better keep a rabbits foot in your Cobra!
MikeD
Now that Hershel and I have decided to agree to disagree without resorting to a duel at 20 paces
, I was starting to think of myself as somewhat of a hypocrite thinking a Jaguar V 12 would sound pretty trick in a GT 40. But now that Ford owns Jaguar that would be OK ( not really). I also think the Ford 32 valve supercharged motor Ford is considering using in the new GT40 would be a nice GT 40 motor also. It’s fun to let ones imagination run wild at times but reality still dictates a 302 or 427 in a GT 40 IMO.
So I was on to my next brilliant idea of using a jaguar V-12 or supercharged Jaguar V–8 in one of these
but then that wouldn’t be the right motor either. Maybe we should discuss Democrats and Republicans, Tory’s and Wigs, and maybe a bit of religion. It’s safer. By the way Hershel, I also like the ALS series. I’ve been a huge IMSA fan since the mid 1970’s through the Prototype era.
IMSA
aka Terry Teadtke
Portland, Oregon
As per my preference in engine manufactures, You will not get my Blue Oval Ford emblem from me until you pry it from my cold dead hands.
So I was on to my next brilliant idea of using a jaguar V-12 or supercharged Jaguar V–8 in one of these
but then that wouldn’t be the right motor either. Maybe we should discuss Democrats and Republicans, Tory’s and Wigs, and maybe a bit of religion. It’s safer. By the way Hershel, I also like the ALS series. I’ve been a huge IMSA fan since the mid 1970’s through the Prototype era.
IMSA
aka Terry Teadtke
Portland, Oregon
As per my preference in engine manufactures, You will not get my Blue Oval Ford emblem from me until you pry it from my cold dead hands.
Thanks Mike,
I just hope everybody understands that I am not upset or against Ford power or any
choice one chooses. I do things for myself and that's who you have to make happy in this world. I just don't think I have the
right to tell another person that he put the
wrong engine in his car. It ain't wrong
if that's what he wants. I love looking at
a dead perfect replica as much as one that
is owner modified to his specs. If that person had a real GT40 and stuck in a
different motor then I would roll my eyes
but I still wouldn't tell him he made a
mistake. I think the guy would know what he
did and I don't think he would appreciate
me walking up to his car and pointing out
something that's pretty obvious.
But on the same token as IMSA pointed out,
if you ask my opinion I'll tell you.
No matter what your opinion is I still
think we can have these discussions without
insulting one another. Sometimes that happens unintentionally with a keyboard.
Remember the Audi Vs. Renault trans thread.
That could have easily gone amuck but it
didn't. Each person gave his reasons as to
why he felt one was better than the other.
But all that read the thread came away
better educated as to what the differences
were. With that kind of info people can draw
their own conclusions as to which is
better for them.
The only thing I hate about these threads is the long posts I have to type. My two
fingers can only go so fast.
And
there ain't no short answers !
Hersh
I just hope everybody understands that I am not upset or against Ford power or any
choice one chooses. I do things for myself and that's who you have to make happy in this world. I just don't think I have the
right to tell another person that he put the
wrong engine in his car. It ain't wrong
if that's what he wants. I love looking at
a dead perfect replica as much as one that
is owner modified to his specs. If that person had a real GT40 and stuck in a
different motor then I would roll my eyes
but I still wouldn't tell him he made a
mistake. I think the guy would know what he
did and I don't think he would appreciate
me walking up to his car and pointing out
something that's pretty obvious.
But on the same token as IMSA pointed out,
if you ask my opinion I'll tell you.
No matter what your opinion is I still
think we can have these discussions without
insulting one another. Sometimes that happens unintentionally with a keyboard.
Remember the Audi Vs. Renault trans thread.
That could have easily gone amuck but it
didn't. Each person gave his reasons as to
why he felt one was better than the other.
But all that read the thread came away
better educated as to what the differences
were. With that kind of info people can draw
their own conclusions as to which is
better for them.
The only thing I hate about these threads is the long posts I have to type. My two
fingers can only go so fast.
there ain't no short answers !
Hersh
Terry,
You have impeccable taste in cars. I love the color. I also love the sound of a V-12
anything. There is no other sound like them.
Now it really gets interesting when you put a supercharger on them. They start sounding
like 10,000 angry bees.
Terry, no politics for me. I get into
enough trouble without going down that road.
If you want exciting racing it doesn't get any better that ALMS series. I also look
forward to the new historic races that Don Panoz started. It should be a popular event.
Hersh
You have impeccable taste in cars. I love the color. I also love the sound of a V-12
anything. There is no other sound like them.
Now it really gets interesting when you put a supercharger on them. They start sounding
like 10,000 angry bees.
Terry, no politics for me. I get into
enough trouble without going down that road.
If you want exciting racing it doesn't get any better that ALMS series. I also look
forward to the new historic races that Don Panoz started. It should be a popular event.
Hersh
As Chris L mentioned earlier, the Ford vs GM thing is so heated in Australia that not only is there a V8 Supercar racing series, there is also enough demand to push Sony into releasing a Playstation 2 game based on this form of Aussie motor racing (called V8 Supercars).
At Australia's premier racing event in V8 supercars at Mt Panorama in Bathurst, many people have been hospitalised in the defense of their chosen brand of vehicle!
Great thread Martin.
Cheers
Bill.
At Australia's premier racing event in V8 supercars at Mt Panorama in Bathurst, many people have been hospitalised in the defense of their chosen brand of vehicle!
Great thread Martin.
Cheers
Bill.
Martin - Its your car, do whatever you want to. As far as the re-sale value, just retain all the parts to convert the car back to Ford powered in the event that you want to sell and can't get the money with the Chevy in it.
I personally would put in a 59AB flathead, one like the one which just ran 300 mph at Bonneville, but for the previously mentioned problem that you can't get at the darn front mounted "dizzy" in the GT40.
Best regards, Blue
I personally would put in a 59AB flathead, one like the one which just ran 300 mph at Bonneville, but for the previously mentioned problem that you can't get at the darn front mounted "dizzy" in the GT40.
Best regards, Blue
Ian,
Indeed I am going with the Levy 306.
The car comes set up for that engine.
If the car came set up for a chevy it wouldn't bother me a bit. I guess my
hot rod roots run deep. I have been involved
with street rods since 1961. Most all
the guys with hot rods at that time ran
chevy or caddy engines. Many of the guys
did have the old ford flatheads that went
pretty good but sooner or later they
wound up with a 265 or 283. The reason was
that it fit the tight engine compartments
and made a lot more horsepower. For awhile
chevy power was standard procedure when
building a Ford or any make street rod. Now a
days the Fords in a ford is gaining popularity because of aftermarket products that make the swap easier.
I like hybrids. When you look back in the 50's many of the cars were just that.
Allards, Turners, Cobras, and many others.
They all used engines from one manufacturer and rear ends from another and so on.
These guys that built these cars were racers. They wanted what worked and went
faster to win. They didn't care one hoot about who made it as long as it was faster.
I wonder what the AC Bristol owner thought
when he saw the 260 or 289 in the new
AC called cobras. He possibly thought that they ruined a perfectly good little roadster
by jamming that big motor in there. Then again he might of wondered what it would take
to put one in his Bristol.
Then there is the wonderful world of
fiberglass. Ah yes! the stuff can make anything look real. I love it. Old 30s and
40s cars are harder to find but fiberglass
has made it possible to have that special
street rod. There are more 34 Ford registered
today than were built by ford.
Fiberglass kit cars have been around a long
time. todays kit products are far superior
than the earlier years. The popularity of
kit cars will continue to rise. I think
this has a lot to do with the donor concept.
OH Gees! did this ever get long.
Sorry, but when I start reminencing and thinking out loud about the old days,it's hard to stop.
Hersh
Indeed I am going with the Levy 306.
The car comes set up for that engine.
If the car came set up for a chevy it wouldn't bother me a bit. I guess my
hot rod roots run deep. I have been involved
with street rods since 1961. Most all
the guys with hot rods at that time ran
chevy or caddy engines. Many of the guys
did have the old ford flatheads that went
pretty good but sooner or later they
wound up with a 265 or 283. The reason was
that it fit the tight engine compartments
and made a lot more horsepower. For awhile
chevy power was standard procedure when
building a Ford or any make street rod. Now a
days the Fords in a ford is gaining popularity because of aftermarket products that make the swap easier.
I like hybrids. When you look back in the 50's many of the cars were just that.
Allards, Turners, Cobras, and many others.
They all used engines from one manufacturer and rear ends from another and so on.
These guys that built these cars were racers. They wanted what worked and went
faster to win. They didn't care one hoot about who made it as long as it was faster.
I wonder what the AC Bristol owner thought
when he saw the 260 or 289 in the new
AC called cobras. He possibly thought that they ruined a perfectly good little roadster
by jamming that big motor in there. Then again he might of wondered what it would take
to put one in his Bristol.
Then there is the wonderful world of
fiberglass. Ah yes! the stuff can make anything look real. I love it. Old 30s and
40s cars are harder to find but fiberglass
has made it possible to have that special
street rod. There are more 34 Ford registered
today than were built by ford.
Fiberglass kit cars have been around a long
time. todays kit products are far superior
than the earlier years. The popularity of
kit cars will continue to rise. I think
this has a lot to do with the donor concept.
OH Gees! did this ever get long.
Sorry, but when I start reminencing and thinking out loud about the old days,it's hard to stop.
Hersh
Hershel, I need to pick my fights a little more carefully. Ex Marine, ex policeman, it’s a good thing you’re in Arizona and I’m in Portland. Anyway I’ve been in love with the Jaguar XJ220 since I first laid eyes on it. I hadn’t really thought about it, but I would estimate one could reproduce the car with a monocoque chassie, injected V12, Porsche gear box and a fiberglass body for less than a third of the current price of $375,000. IMO, the very best looking super car of the ‘super car’era during the 1990’s. I’m looking forward to the historic races at Portland in July featuring CAN-AM cars.
IMSA
IMSA
OK, now you guys have stopped fighting!! politics aside, etc. If you were given 5000 dollars & asked to build the best V8, taking into consideration, BHP, Torque, physical size, weight, where would you start?
In the UK, the Rover (read Buick) 3.5 ltr V8 is popular. Altho only 150 bhp stock, it can be tuned to over 400bhp. ISTR Tony marsh's twin turbo version kicks out well in excess of that figure. It's smaller, *MUCH* lighter & available.
At the end of the day, as far as performance is concerned, power to weight & outright weight are the most important factors.
In the UK, the Rover (read Buick) 3.5 ltr V8 is popular. Altho only 150 bhp stock, it can be tuned to over 400bhp. ISTR Tony marsh's twin turbo version kicks out well in excess of that figure. It's smaller, *MUCH* lighter & available.
At the end of the day, as far as performance is concerned, power to weight & outright weight are the most important factors.
Similar threads
