Cost of engines

[David]

Might I also mention the sound of an engine. One of the unique characteristics of an engine/car is the sound it makes as heard from inside and outside. A 302/361/347 with a crossover exhaust will have that "GT40 sound" which we all know and love.

Good point. Lets be honest, we're interested in GT40's because we love them and the sound is a part of that. When I was floating different engine choices with various people they were suggesting various 6 cylinder, 4 cylinder turbo engines etc. All discounted because they weren't V8's, partly because of the noise but mostly because they're not V8's. I may not have gone SBF but there is no way a V8 wasn't going to be in there.

Four valve per cylinder motors sound very different as the two exhaust valves give a "softer" sound as the piston finds it easier to push the gas out. So whist you can get more power from alternatives the combination of firing order, valve arrangement and exhaust gives the special aural characteristics as per the original cars.

Now that's interesting, I knew the size and firing order could make a difference but hadn't considered that the 4v/cylinder would make a difference. It is worth mentioning at this point that the 1UZ-FE while 4v/cylinder has exactly the same firing order as the 289/302

 

[David]

If Chevy or Ford are not working try electric!
I think this is the first SL-C with electric motor.

Electric

Interesting. In a lot of regards a GT40 is prime for battery power. Change the sills to the MK4 spec (ie square rather than rounded) and fill them with batteries. Plenty of room in that engine bay for a decent electric motor.

Of course rather missing the point of a GT40 replica in oh so many ways but all depends on how much petrol goes up in price. If it gets to the point that no 'normal' people can afford it then if we want to keep using them at all we'll have to consider removing the V8's and running electric. Or hydrogen. That might work, just with an even smaller range!

 

[George]

And to me, Replica or not, bottom line is it is still a ford. It sure does not look like a chevy or a chrysler or a pontiac or a something rather but a FORD. It runs ford Parts, it must be a FORD.

SO that being the case, it must have a FORD engine in it. Besides, when the car costs over 70,000 as if 3000 more or less on a motor makes any difference. If that 3000 is too much, then I doubt the person would be enough well off financially to even own the GT40. So I do not see how any of it is relevant.

 

[David]

George, each to their own. There are replica GT40's out there without a single Ford part in, there are those where they are near 100% copies of the originals and everything in between. As I said previously some people take a Ford engine and then go and replace every single part except the block. I've only got one less Ford part in my engine than them... If you start with a Dart or similar block you can manage a 'Ford' engine with not a single Ford part in!

Its a personal decision for each builder or buyer as to what they want out of their car and purchase money is not always the reason. If you look at the GT40 replica history the first car, the KVA was powered by a Fiesta XR3 engine! Ok so its a Ford but a 4 pot. Later 'production' models tended to be Renault or Ford V6 before working finally up to Rover or Ford V8's. In the UK there are no 'domestic' Ford SBF's so builders have used what they had to hand.

For any GT40 replica I'd build it has to be a V8 but others have different opinions. I know some would be up in arms about it but personally if someone wants to stick a turbo charged rotary in there that's fine by me, as far away from the original as you can get and not my cup of tea in the GT40 but hell I'd be asking for pictures.

As to the 'price' and 'affording' the GT40, a GT40 can be built on a severe budget, an anything goes budget or anything in between, if you are spending 10-15k rather than 70k that 'only' 3k extra is repeated through out the car. 'Only' granada hubs/brakes rather than aluminium/Wilwood, 'Only' 1k spent on engine/gearbox rather than 20k. I know plenty of 'normal' (ie not well off) people who own a 10-15k car and plenty more own 20-30k so what's to say they couldn't afford a 15-20k budget GT40?

 

[George]

Where on earth is one gonna get a 100k car for $15,000?

Just to get one to Australia would cost over $15,000, Emission testing for 2012 would cost around $15,000, and there goes the 15k, into literal smoke and no car.

Still, replica or w/e, build what a person wants, true, I just dont see how a Ford with GM/chrysler or worse, Rotary, works. Why not just get a ricer then or a GM/Chrysler if that is the engine one likes?

But each to their own like you said... at least keep it v8 if anything.

Maybe I should stick the 528ci Hemi I wanted for my 68 Charger into the 40, 650 ft/lbs of torque and 600bhp. Wonder how that would go :grinf:

 

[David]

George, I did have a long reply but I can't be arsed. You are not the only country in the world and not everyone buys everything brand new from the kit maker.

You then say "it must be Ford" but then

- P38- Cylinder heads (as they are a very light casting) with a .625 deck surface.
- Bryant or Winberg light weight crankshaft
- Dart Alloy Block
- Light weight Carillo steel rods
- Dry Sump
- e.f.i stack injection, harness, ecu etc, all ready to go

So you're not going with a Ford engine then?

 

[Dave Hood]

I've got a Ford engine in my GT40, but since these are not original cars I think everyone should build theirs to their own specs. We all own them for different reasons. The point is to simply enjoy what you have.

 

[Mike S.]

This has been a very interesting thread to read. I'd like to interject my plug nickels worth. There are probably nearly as mant different reasons people build/ like the GT 40. As there are owners of said model. For some it's the look, others the sound, to be different than the run of the mill box etc etc (the only one on the block?) The differnt locals & budget can have vastly different effects on the final outcome. As has been mentioned, just because you slap a blue oval on it. Doesn't make it a Ford. These are all reproductions/recreations. Some may choose to go whole hog & try to make it a nearly dead ringer for the real thing. While others add full upholstered interiors, air conditioning or automatic trans. etc. Is it a sin to vary from the original? I think not. How many out there are built with tube chassis? Does anyone jump up & down yelling "that is not the way they were built"? Or with welded aluminum tubs? I think probably the main interest draw is the looks & not what is under the skin. For many the build is the thing. The planning & working things out (often on a tight budget) then seeing it all come together. I know street roders that build cars & as soon as they're done put a for sale sign in the window. Do they expect to make money building them & selling them? No but the challenge is in the build & they're already looking to the next one before they're finished with the current one. So all in all no matter what engine is in it, or if it has air conditioning or a Porsche trans. etc. It still will never be a REALL GT 40. There were only so many built & that's all there ever will be. Just my two cents worth. But I've seen this game of "mine's better than yours because" played many times & ways.
Mike S.

 

[Keith]

Well I agree. It's yours - put what you like in it. I'm thinking of an early Corvette body as well..after all, it's not an original.

It will take a bit of work to get the body to fit the chassis, but what the hey?

:drunk:

 

[Howard Jones]

I you want pretty good power with a pretty good price the 345HP FMS 302's are OK. Mine makes 300 Hp at the wheels and also gets about 18-20 MPG on a lonf freeway cruze.

The one thing I would recomend is to have it balanced right out of the crate if you intend to run it on track. While it is apart put some ARP rod bolts in it and give the heads a little pocket porting and a nice fresh 5 angle valve job.

I run mine with a 750 DP and MSD dis and box. It also has had the headers port matched and runs pretty good mufflers.

OK value and pretty good power.

302 CUBIC INCHES 345 HP BOSS CRATE ENGINE | Part Details for M-6007-X302B* | Ford Racing Performance Parts

or the 340Hp 302

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=11752

 

[Jack]

Cost: It can be done economically.
Low mileage LS1, freshened with ASA spec camshaft/valve springs/hardened pushrods, etc. Head porting, DBW throttle body/harness/ECU for under 6K.
Dyno 430HP/380TQ, 7000 RPM redline.

 

[Jimmy P]

Keith, is that tongue of yours firmly planted in your cheek? : )

 

[Keith]

Keith, is that tongue of yours firmly planted in your cheek? : )

You know it Jimmy....:laugh:

 

[Mike S.]

Well let's face it we here in the US are spoiled compared to folks in other parts of the world. We can go to virtually any wrecking yard & pick up a Ford small block (or big block). Or car swap meet. Then with all the different types of racing done here. We can get just about any type of speed equip we want. From fuel injection to forged pistons & rods etc. As was originall expressed the comparitive cost in other countries can be quite a bit different. I'm facing that problem with the Ford engine I'm putting in my Europa. I want to get rid of the Renault engine due to lack of parts availability & no reall upgrade parts made. But even with it being a Ford engine most of the parts for the re-build have come from England. It's a Kent 1600 crossflow that is used for Formula Ford & other race applications (this one came out of a Formula car that was crashed). The stock Ford engine was used in a lot more models & for a lot more years there in the UK than here. I'm prety much on a shoe string budget like other builders. I contemplated other engines including a Buick 215 & the cost of a rebuild, ease of parts availability (including rebuilding the orig. Renault to keep it original). Well this engine was a freebee to begin with LOL. Including the twin Weber DCOEs & was close to the original dimentions. The block is the same as the Lotus twin cam as used in the next series of Europa. So I can see where those in other countries might very well look at other than SBF engines for their build. Sometimes practical reasons will out weigh the prefence. Builds are like life, our "want tos" are out weighed by our "can dos". It's all about choices & each individuals "can dos" in the light of their particular circumstances.
Mike S

 

[Mark]

Interesting thread. Noone asked for my opinion and rightly so, but for the love of pete, if you're building a GT40, put a bloody ford v8 in it or build something else.

Yes it's your time, your money, your dream, your choice. PUT A FORD V8 IN IT!!!