First thoughts on building a GT40......

Doc Watson

Lifetime Supporter
OK first post so hi to everybody, I've been looking at the site for over 2 years now and its a great source of info on the car, thumbs up to Ron........



So, I want a GT40, but what kit to buy?, what engine?, what colour? It all started with many many questions.

I finally decided to build a car based on the Mk1 Gulf Mirage car which for a brief period had a 351W engine (I think it won Spa and a few other races before the 5ltr rule came in).


So this is where I am at the moment with regards to a very early stage of build.

Engine - Due to SVA regulations in the UK you are allowed 1 used componemt on a kitcar. If you choose the engine then pre 1993 means no catalytic converter is required. Pre 1983 requires less severe emissions test and pre 1973 then its a visible smoke test only. So after 4 months searching here in the UK I finally found a 1972 351 Windsor block bored 28 thou oversize ready for 2 thou honing. £500 pounds and a bit of a risk as it needed pressure testing and crack checking. My motor machinist (who builds 1000+ HP V8's for Santa pod 1/4 mile stuff, I think he's british champ at the moment) did the tests and today I found out that everything is OK... phewww....... Forged crank with standard stroke to keep the rod ratio numbers ok and H beam rods with forged pistons are also waiting to be fit. The heads are Air flow research (New Zealand I think) and will arrive in the next week or two. The plan is to have the motor at a point where the internals can be balanced and then stripped down and shipped to me for storage until the chassis is ready. I want a reliable engine to be able to do the Le Mans thing and a few track days and expect about 400 HP with good tickover. Total spent so far is £3500 on the main engine components.

Gearbox- I want the car to be as 'original' as possible so this is a no brainer I will order a ZF transaxle, inverted for gt40s from RTB transmissions, about £8000 a go. Should have this by the end of the year.

Bellhousing - Ordering an ERA bellhousing (quoted about $500) should give good ground clearance but needs a 157 tooth fly wheel (Fidanze aluminium flywhell on order).

Tilton super started (unless I can find a genuine ford starter) and the Aviaid (spelt wrong?) pan 6.5" deep as per original. I will have Stainless exhausts and weber 48 IDA's on top. I'm considering using a MOTEC injection system but undecided as yet - needs more research.

The kit.........

Ahhh which kit to buy?
ERA - Would love an ERA kit but 2 years wait and around £30,000 for just the chassis plus import hassel put me off.

MDA - Went to the Exeter kit car show (just up the road for me) and saw the MDA chassis and sat in to check leg and head room (i'm 6'2") fitted in no problems and was very impressed with the kit. MDA are based in Exeter and this helps as its only 40 miles from me.

Roaring 40s - They were at Exeter also, and again very nice kit.
 

Doc Watson

Lifetime Supporter
Got interrupted in my ramble will post the rest later.............. darn work gets in the way...........
 
Doc,
I hope soon to be able to source ex-Pantera ZF transaxles direct from Italy for less than the £8000 you mention.
Give me an e-mail before you commit sponduliks.
I can also get high-torque starter motors for less than the Tilton.
 
Doc,
Welcome to the forum, such a wealth of knowledge and help freely given on here. I am not too far from you, but I do not have my 40 here as yet. Very frustrating!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif Not too many of us down this end of the world.
Regards
Murray
 

Doc Watson

Lifetime Supporter
ok, that work thing is over for a few hours...... where was I.... ah yes which kit?

So went to Exeter and was spoilt with 2 kits RF and MDA. Still havent decided although I'm swaying to the MDA due to physical location, a manufacturer who is 30 mins away must be a help........

There is also another alternative and that is to build the chassis myself, no small job but without correct stampings and drawings and no genuine chassis to look at its a long shot.

I've done the spreadsheet thing and It looks like about £35,000 for the complete car, I've given myself 7 years for completion a little long I know but it has to be worth the wait.

Tony - thanks for the offer will contact you in the summer.

Murray - What GT are u getting, when does it arrive, and can I come and see you and crack open a cold one or two and blame the beer for my green complection and drooling mouth?

Will keep posting as and when developments move on.
 
Hi Doc,
Depending on what your budget is there is soon to be a completely perfect monocoque tub made in the UK - an exact copy of the original in every way.
 
Doc,
I have got a KVA Mk I(C type chassis). 80% done, in Gulf colours. It's up near Swindon with my brother at the moment and I am desperately trying to find garage space down here so I can get it down. When I do get it here you are very welcome to visit, drool or not. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Regards
Murray
 
"7 years to complete" Doc, 7 years is a very long time to sustain the enthusiasm you now have, but also 7 years is a very long time to rely on many other things still being in place. Will the supplier you rely on still be there in that time ? will the SVA still allow you to register a GT40 as a road car without insurmountable requirements ?, and will your own requirements change in that time ?.Better to buy the jigsaw of parts now and get on with it ( if your ambition is to build it yourself ) or buy a pre registered car and strip and develope it to your own requirements. Frank
 

Ron Earp

Admin
7 years is a long time. Get one already built, take it apart and rebuild to your specs, and start living life. I came to a similar conclusion a couple months ago when I finally had to admit that my job and hobbies were not going to allow me to finish my car within the time I wanted.

Ron
 

Doc Watson

Lifetime Supporter
Ok I will redefine the '7 years' Should be ordering the kit sometime after summer although before this a house move needs to be done. I plan to have the car the way I want it after 7 years, figure 2 years tops for SVA and then years of tweaking...... is a car ever finished?

Paul - keep those pictures comming of your build, I've spent hours looking at those photos, and still think your car looks better with the blue string suspension ;-) who is building the replica chassis? do you have any more info?

Murray - Love to see it when its down in Devon.....

Frank and Ron - upon reflection you are probably right, although I'm not commited to any kit yet, just getting the engine together is a seemingly bottomless money pit...... but..... I've finally started the journey.....

Now to Plymouth barbican for vodka and fine women...... later guys, its saturday night............
 
I can't really give any details at the moment as it's not for me to say - my reason for posting was so you didn't do anything too hasty. Sorry to be vague.
 

Doc Watson

Lifetime Supporter
I need about 3-4 months anyway to get the 351W together, I have seen the David Brown chassis and am trying to contact Abbey Panels who produced the original stampings for the chassis to see if they still produce the parts.....

Something to do while the bottom end of my engine gets balanced and the heads arrive from New Zealand....

Thanks Paul
 
Doc,

beside the company that Paul is eluding to, you can buy an original chassis built by Adams-McCall (contact Kerry Adams on 01256 771666). It is fabricated from Zintek (ainc coated mild steel).
Cost was quoted to me a month or so ago as being £27k +vat, delivery is around 3 months, and they want 25% at time of order.

Obviously you then need to source every other component for the car, unlike building from a kit of parts from the likes of RF, Tornado, etc.

There are a few others on here that are taking this approach who can probably give more info.

I don't know too much about this as I'm pretty much at the same stage as you. Just passing on what I've gleaned from asking similar questions.

Cheers,
John.
 

Doc Watson

Lifetime Supporter
Things have changed a little, I've contacted David Brown and had a very incouraging discussion about him producing a replica chassis for me. I am happy with the price and will order one when funds are avalible sometime this summer.

How much I hear you all shout? well a rough estimate is $60,000 NZ which at todays rate is £22,900. Cost of shipping will be about £1000 if I share a container. Delivery will be about 8-9 weeks from order (excluding shipping time).

For those not farmiliar with Davids work I found a shot of the chassis he builds, its zink plated steel.
 

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Doc,
sounds very similar to the adams-mcCal chassis, and the new one yet to be announced.

Any ideas if you would need to pay import duty on that chassis ?
If so it could make it more expensive than the uk alternatives.

Cheers,
John.
 
Contact HMC&E Doc, they'll tell you the duty rate. Also, on their website, is 'their exchange rates'. This is the figure you will need to work it out. Current rate is 2.6362 for March. Working this out it will be 22760, and shipping at 1000; then duty (can't answer but my engine parts range from 2.7 to 4%) then add VAT. So without the duty addition in the middle you are already looking at 28K. Also, sometimes they let you defer some payments etc, but best to check.

Brett
 

Russ Noble

GT40s Supporter
Lifetime Supporter
Andrew, I've just been down to Invercargill and had a look through Dave Brown's workshop. The finish and attention to detail on these mono's is just amazing. From your point of view it's a pity the NZ dollar is at it's highest point for the last twenty years. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Good for those of us here trying to get stuff in from overseas though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Hope the figures stack up for you.

Regards
 
Doc,

Jim Rosenthal should be able to fill you in on dealing with David Brown. I believe that his chassis is here in the States now (at Safir) and his build is coming along nicely. Perhaps he will chime in and tell you of his experience.

You wouldn't be related to the Doc Watson of
blues/bluegrass fame by any chance? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


Bill
 

Doc Watson

Lifetime Supporter
I have been known to play my Ibanez in the style of someone called Steve Via and Joe Satriani... ;-) but no relation to that doc watson. Got my PhD in 2000 working in Artificial Intelligence, wrote software to help design the Rolls Royce 'Trent' engine (1st stage turbine blade to be specific) and then did 2 years with British Aerospace on evolving stealth planes etc. cant say more about that. As for the photo, its me in 1993, was a Nav in the RAF, I used it on a web site of another on-going project, everybody thought I was an old Spitfire pilot.....

If your interested goto

www.awatson1.fsnet.co.uk

Its been about 8 years making designing, redesigning and should hover this summer.......

Thanks for all the info guys, I've actually found yet another replica chassis supplier and am waiting for a quote from them, its soon to be FIA approved, looks like thats the path I'm taking...... what the hell I would probably spend £30-40K on a complete spaceframe car so an extra 10K for an 'original' copy in my mind is worth it, I must be one of those original guys.........
 

Bill Hara

Old Hand
GT40s Supporter
Hey Doc

I noticed your updates are a little behind (not that it matters - I'm just interested in the rest of your work!) and from reading your last post, your website shows you at rebuild number 3 rather than your current #8.
It is a super interesting project you are doing on a plane that I find amazing. I've watched the discovery channel documentary on the JSF project a number of times and I can't believe you would be attempting something like this. Are you connecting the front hover fan to the rear via a shaft? How do you intend to fly this machine if it takes multiple computers to fly the full scale version?

Great work and well done!

Bill
 
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