where are the Arabs happy?
- Thread starter David Morton
- Start date
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
The best point he makes is that yes, there have been cycles, but humans have lived in a rather narrow band of climate in last hundred thousand years. We don't know what even small changes that are accelerated by our own industry, etc. will actually do, even if they are to some extent "normal."
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
Disgruntled? No. Disappointed in the perspective the average white male in the US/UK seems to have adopted? Hype over substance? Disregarding science? Adopting a victim mentality (all these minorities are oppressing me!)? Engaging racial and cultural stereotyping? Focusing exclusively on memememememe?
Yep, disappointed that affluent, educated white males seem in large part -- not all -- have fallen into those traps.
Yep, disappointed that affluent, educated white males seem in large part -- not all -- have fallen into those traps.
Better check your eyes - US per capita is 19.18 tons, Australia's is 20.82 tons.
And, for those who want to see some real hard core data, I highly recommend a visit to the Birch Aquarium in La Jolla, CA.
As far as Lake Louise and the receding glaciers - all one needs to do is search the internet to find the wealth of information regarding how, for example, Crowfoot Glacier has lost one of its three "toes" and is rapidly losing another, and how it is no longer connected to the Wapta Icefield.
Ian
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
Meh....I just get really tired of coming onto car forums and seeing the EXACT SAME STUFF over and over from the pissed off white guy.
It generally goes like this. College (or more) educted white middle age male professional who owns house, and various sports cars, tow vehicles, etc. posts "can you believe this" rant about (a) Muslims; (b) minorities; (c) evil liberals or (d) global warming. I'm sure I missed a few.
Even better, I routinely get unsolicited e-mails from my conservative friends all the time about taxes, and the liberal media, and welfare, and blah blah blah. I guess THEY think all middle age white males (like me) think the same.
I generally speaking try to keep my politics to myself. I try not to start threads here, nor send out unsolicited "holy crap, can you believe they are taking my money!" e-mails like my wealthy friends do.
But I am honestly tired of being on the receiving end. In a politer society we'd keep our politics to ourselves and not splatter them all over the internet (and yes I'm guilty of that too).
It generally goes like this. College (or more) educted white middle age male professional who owns house, and various sports cars, tow vehicles, etc. posts "can you believe this" rant about (a) Muslims; (b) minorities; (c) evil liberals or (d) global warming. I'm sure I missed a few.
Even better, I routinely get unsolicited e-mails from my conservative friends all the time about taxes, and the liberal media, and welfare, and blah blah blah. I guess THEY think all middle age white males (like me) think the same.
I generally speaking try to keep my politics to myself. I try not to start threads here, nor send out unsolicited "holy crap, can you believe they are taking my money!" e-mails like my wealthy friends do.
But I am honestly tired of being on the receiving end. In a politer society we'd keep our politics to ourselves and not splatter them all over the internet (and yes I'm guilty of that too).
Hey Jeff, the video is none of those things but it is about Arabs - Afghans to be exact and a new military strategy instigated by David Petraous which frankly made my blood run cold. It was on British TV last week a regular expose type series called 'Dispatches'.
Every American ought to see it if only to debunk it, I fervently hope. I found it worrying and disturbing and I posted it, not to make a political point but to illustrate how we seem to have lurched, via mission creep, into the netherworld in Afghanistan - I say we, because the UK and half of Europe is there too.
It is obvious that it has been sanctioned by the White House too which is a bit worrying as I was getting to like Obama.
It is called "America's Secret Killers" and you could try Googling it. Not BBC but UK Channel 4.
Every American ought to see it if only to debunk it, I fervently hope. I found it worrying and disturbing and I posted it, not to make a political point but to illustrate how we seem to have lurched, via mission creep, into the netherworld in Afghanistan - I say we, because the UK and half of Europe is there too.
It is obvious that it has been sanctioned by the White House too which is a bit worrying as I was getting to like Obama.
It is called "America's Secret Killers" and you could try Googling it. Not BBC but UK Channel 4.
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
Well then, thanks for the link (or the tip). I'll see if I can find it.
It's like saying all lawyers are inept crooks when it's not quite that many!:shy:
Jeff, you and I generally agree with a lot of things (I think), and on this one you are spot on...
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
Global warming is the Arabs fault.
Jeff, that was a joke. BTW I was talking about a specific Glacier, the one at Lake Louise not all glaciers.
There are many glaciers that are receding I am aware of that, there are also a lot of scientists who are climate change sceptics, they of course get howled down by the popular press and Governments slathering to put taxes on carbon. Read you and me.
If it will not boor everyone to death and I think it already is, I can publish some of the sceptic's arguments and research.
However, it seems that you have made up your mind and closed it to naysayer's like me.
So it would probably be an exercise in futility.
I have no doubt the climate is changing, it has been for millions of years, I think it sums up the arrogance of man that he thinks he can effect it and change it.
Jeff, that was a joke. BTW I was talking about a specific Glacier, the one at Lake Louise not all glaciers.
There are many glaciers that are receding I am aware of that, there are also a lot of scientists who are climate change sceptics, they of course get howled down by the popular press and Governments slathering to put taxes on carbon. Read you and me.
If it will not boor everyone to death and I think it already is, I can publish some of the sceptic's arguments and research.
However, it seems that you have made up your mind and closed it to naysayer's like me.
So it would probably be an exercise in futility.
I have no doubt the climate is changing, it has been for millions of years, I think it sums up the arrogance of man that he thinks he can effect it and change it.
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Pete, it wouldn't bore me one jot for you to do that, as I am pretty much in your camp on this particular issue.... Climate change is very "fashionable", and I think it's valid to post both points of view. I, like most others, remain largely open minded on the subject and all data assimilated is a good thing...
Fill yer boots
Getting back to the original post about Arabs being unhappy. I believe it is due to them being promised 77 virgins. Virgins are a lot of work. Give me 10 ho-bags and I coud get busy, ya know wha I'm sayin'.
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
I've read most of McIntyre's stuff. It's a decent critique of Mann. I've read some of the studies of solar activity as the basis for climate change. Some persuasiveness there.
Post up what you got. I like it when folks on both sides show they have read the science, rather than had Fox News or MSNBC tell them what was going on.
Post up what you got. I like it when folks on both sides show they have read the science, rather than had Fox News or MSNBC tell them what was going on.
Ron Earp
Admin
Rarely do people read actual scientific findings. Most just read a science based excerpt from a news organization - AP, MSNBC, Fox, CNN, BBC, NPR, WSJ, etc. Maybe a step better is to read summaries from science based websites such as Science Daily. But even there you're still only getting a distilled version of referred papers in scientific journals. I find the best use for Science Daily and other science oriented sites is to read a summary there and then get the article that they reference so I can have read myself.
The fact remains is that we have scientists conversing and debating on one plane, while we have laymen picking and choosing from "scientific sources" a particular set of simplified facts fits their purposes. News sources will not present accurate summaries in the proportion that they appear in the referred journals and that will skew the public perception. Hardly a level, informed, and accurate basis for a discussion or debate.
I'm not of the position that that laymen should not be involved in the discussion. But I think the proper way to engage in these discussions, scientists and non-scientists alike, is to learn about the science involved from the source. If you're really interested in a topic then attend scientific conferences about the matter. I go to a few scientific conferences a year and many times you can get a conference pass for free or very little money. Then you can go sit in on talks and learn from the sources, ask questions, and learn about new research. Or, in lieu of that, pursue your local university library and read the actual journals and articles regarding the topic you're interested in. I think anyone that gives it a try will be pleasantly surprised that it isn't all that daunting and will find it very interesting.
Jeff Young
GT40s Supporter
I agree with most of this, although it is always limited by time. I got interested enough in the global warming debate a few years ago to read the "source" materials for a lot of what gets reported -- I read some of Mann's papers, and McIntyre's criticisms of them and the hockey stick. I also read some of the solar activity studies that seemed to be the most damning evidence against AGW (at first), as well as the critiques of how NASA and others actually monitor global temperatures.
The gist of all of what I read was that almost all scientists agree we are in a warming phase.
Most seem to agree that the pace of warming is higher than it has been in recorded history -- which ain't a whole lot of time, I agree. But the pace has increased enough so as to be alarming.
And then on the last two questions -- are we causing this and if so what can do about it? -- there is far more disagreement.
The gist of all of what I read was that almost all scientists agree we are in a warming phase.
Most seem to agree that the pace of warming is higher than it has been in recorded history -- which ain't a whole lot of time, I agree. But the pace has increased enough so as to be alarming.
And then on the last two questions -- are we causing this and if so what can do about it? -- there is far more disagreement.
Pete McCluskey.
Lifetime Supporter
The subject has been heavily debated here. http://www.gt40s.com/forum/paddock/28783-climate-change.html
IT has been a tough year for the high priests of global warming in the US. First, NASA had to correct its earlier claim that the hottest year on record in the contiguous US had been 1998, which seemed to prove that global warming was on the march. It was actually 1934. Then it turned out the world's oceans have been growing steadily cooler, not hotter, since 2003. Meanwhile, the winter of 2007 was the coldest in the US in decades, after Al Gore warned us that we were about to see the end of winter as we know it.
In a May issue of Nature, evidence about falling global temperatures forced German climatologists to conclude that the transformation of our planet into a permanent sauna is taking a decade-long hiatus, at least. Then this month came former greenhouse gas alarmist David Evans's article in The Australian, stating that since 1999 evidence has been accumulating that man-made carbon emissions can't be the cause of global warming. By now that evidence, Evans said, has become pretty conclusive.
Yet believers in man-made global warming demand more and more money to combat climate change and still more drastic changes in our economic output and lifestyle.
The reason is that precisely that they are believers, not scientists. No amount of empirical evidence will overturn what has become not a scientific theory but a form of religion.
But what kind of religion? More than 200 years ago, Scottish Enlightenment philosopher David Hume put his finger on the process. His essay, Of Superstition and Enthusiasm, describes how even in civilised societies the mind of man is subject to certain unaccountable terrors and apprehensions when real worries are missing.
As these enemies are entirely invisible and unknown, like today's greenhouse gases, people try to propitiate them by ceremonies, observations, mortifications, sacrifices such as Earth Day and banning plastic bags and petrol-driven lawnmowers.
Fear and ignorance, Hume concludes, are the true source of superstition. They lead a blind and terrified public to embrace any practice, however absurd or frivolous, which either folly or knavery recommends.
The knaves today, of course, are the would-be high priests of the global warming orthodoxy, with former US vice-president Gore as their supreme pontiff.
As Hume points out, the stronger mixture there is of superstition, with its ambience of ignorance and fear, the higher is the authority of the priesthood.
As with the Church in the Dark Ages or the Inquisition during the Reformation, they denounce all doubters, such as Evans or Britain's Gilbert Monckton as dangerous heretics, outliers in Gore's phrase: or as willing tools of the evil enemy of a healthy planet, Big Oil.
This is not the first time, of course, that superstition has paraded itself as science, or created a priesthood masquerading as the exponents of reason. At the beginning of the previous century we had the fascination with eugenics, when the Gores of the age such as E.A. Ross and Ernst Haeckel warned that modern industrial society was headed for race suicide.
The list of otherwise sensible people who endorsed this hokum, from Winston Churchill to Oliver Wendell Holmes, is embarrassing to read today.
Then as now, money was poured into foundations, institutes, and university chairs for the study of eugenics and racial hygiene. Then as now, it was claimed that there was a scientific consensus that modern man was degenerating himself into extinction.
Doubters such as German anthropologist Rudolf Virchow were dismissed as reactionaries or even as tools of the principal contaminators of racial purity, the Jews.
And then as now, proponents of eugenics turned to the all-powerful state to avert catastrophe.
A credulous and submissive public allowed politicians to pass laws permitting forced sterilisation of the feeble-minded, racial screening for immigration quotas, minimum wage laws (which Sidney and Beatrice Webb saw as a way to force the mentally unfit out of the labor market) and other legislation which, in retrospect, set the stage for the humanitarian catastrophe to come.
In fact, when the Nazis took power in 1933, they found that the Weimar Republic had passed all the euthanasia legislation they needed to eliminate Germany's useless mouths.
The next target on their racial hygiene list would be the Jews.
Real science rests on a solid bedrock of scepticism, a scepticism not only about certain religious or cultural assumptions, for example about race, but also about itself.
It constantly re-examines what it regards as evidence, and the connections it draws between cause and effect. It never rushes to judgment, as race science did in Germany in the 1930s and as the high priests of climate change are doing today.
Politicians everywhere should be forced to take an oath similar to the Hippocratic oath taken by doctors: above all else, do no harm. The debate in Australia on this issue is rapidly building to a climax.
Before they make decisions that could trim Australia's gross domestic product by several percentage points a year and impose heavy penalties on Australians' lifestyle, Labour and Liberal alike need to re-examine the superstition of global warming.
Otherwise, the only thing it will melt away is everyone's civil liberty.
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IT has been a tough year for the high priests of global warming in the US. First, NASA had to correct its earlier claim that the hottest year on record in the contiguous US had been 1998, which seemed to prove that global warming was on the march. It was actually 1934. Then it turned out the world's oceans have been growing steadily cooler, not hotter, since 2003. Meanwhile, the winter of 2007 was the coldest in the US in decades, after Al Gore warned us that we were about to see the end of winter as we know it.
In a May issue of Nature, evidence about falling global temperatures forced German climatologists to conclude that the transformation of our planet into a permanent sauna is taking a decade-long hiatus, at least. Then this month came former greenhouse gas alarmist David Evans's article in The Australian, stating that since 1999 evidence has been accumulating that man-made carbon emissions can't be the cause of global warming. By now that evidence, Evans said, has become pretty conclusive.
Yet believers in man-made global warming demand more and more money to combat climate change and still more drastic changes in our economic output and lifestyle.
The reason is that precisely that they are believers, not scientists. No amount of empirical evidence will overturn what has become not a scientific theory but a form of religion.
But what kind of religion? More than 200 years ago, Scottish Enlightenment philosopher David Hume put his finger on the process. His essay, Of Superstition and Enthusiasm, describes how even in civilised societies the mind of man is subject to certain unaccountable terrors and apprehensions when real worries are missing.
As these enemies are entirely invisible and unknown, like today's greenhouse gases, people try to propitiate them by ceremonies, observations, mortifications, sacrifices such as Earth Day and banning plastic bags and petrol-driven lawnmowers.
Fear and ignorance, Hume concludes, are the true source of superstition. They lead a blind and terrified public to embrace any practice, however absurd or frivolous, which either folly or knavery recommends.
The knaves today, of course, are the would-be high priests of the global warming orthodoxy, with former US vice-president Gore as their supreme pontiff.
As Hume points out, the stronger mixture there is of superstition, with its ambience of ignorance and fear, the higher is the authority of the priesthood.
As with the Church in the Dark Ages or the Inquisition during the Reformation, they denounce all doubters, such as Evans or Britain's Gilbert Monckton as dangerous heretics, outliers in Gore's phrase: or as willing tools of the evil enemy of a healthy planet, Big Oil.
This is not the first time, of course, that superstition has paraded itself as science, or created a priesthood masquerading as the exponents of reason. At the beginning of the previous century we had the fascination with eugenics, when the Gores of the age such as E.A. Ross and Ernst Haeckel warned that modern industrial society was headed for race suicide.
The list of otherwise sensible people who endorsed this hokum, from Winston Churchill to Oliver Wendell Holmes, is embarrassing to read today.
Then as now, money was poured into foundations, institutes, and university chairs for the study of eugenics and racial hygiene. Then as now, it was claimed that there was a scientific consensus that modern man was degenerating himself into extinction.
Doubters such as German anthropologist Rudolf Virchow were dismissed as reactionaries or even as tools of the principal contaminators of racial purity, the Jews.
And then as now, proponents of eugenics turned to the all-powerful state to avert catastrophe.
A credulous and submissive public allowed politicians to pass laws permitting forced sterilisation of the feeble-minded, racial screening for immigration quotas, minimum wage laws (which Sidney and Beatrice Webb saw as a way to force the mentally unfit out of the labor market) and other legislation which, in retrospect, set the stage for the humanitarian catastrophe to come.
In fact, when the Nazis took power in 1933, they found that the Weimar Republic had passed all the euthanasia legislation they needed to eliminate Germany's useless mouths.
The next target on their racial hygiene list would be the Jews.
Real science rests on a solid bedrock of scepticism, a scepticism not only about certain religious or cultural assumptions, for example about race, but also about itself.
It constantly re-examines what it regards as evidence, and the connections it draws between cause and effect. It never rushes to judgment, as race science did in Germany in the 1930s and as the high priests of climate change are doing today.
Politicians everywhere should be forced to take an oath similar to the Hippocratic oath taken by doctors: above all else, do no harm. The debate in Australia on this issue is rapidly building to a climax.
Before they make decisions that could trim Australia's gross domestic product by several percentage points a year and impose heavy penalties on Australians' lifestyle, Labour and Liberal alike need to re-examine the superstition of global warming.
Otherwise, the only thing it will melt away is everyone's civil liberty.
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Referrence, read at your leisure.
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When the IPCC report came out, Seitz, Nierenberg, and now a 4th physicist—a man by the name of S. Fred Singer—launched a highly personal attack on Santer. In an open letter to the IPCC, which they sent to numerous members of the US Congress, Singer, Seitz, and Nierenberg accused Santer of making "unauthorized" changes to the IPCC report [...]
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