Gulf Oil Rig Disaster

[Al Wohlstrom]

Yeah - should have taken help as soon as possible. Problem is, I doubt they would have been able to keep up with the flow, not to mention the fact that at first it appeared manageable. That help would have only skimmed the surface oil off anyway- there's so much else going on down below that nobody has the ability to deal with. Don't focus on the surface (literally) and think that the Dutch could have walked in and saved our butts and everything is peachy-keen to start drilling a new well. There is just as much damage happening below the surface (and possibly more) which nobody can stop. If Obama is using this as an example for cleaner energy, there is a very good reason for it - again, look below the surface of this. I am certainly not going to sit here and say that Obama has done a good job with this - but I am also not going to ignore all the reasons that brought this about either and funnel all those steps along the way to this disaster down to one man - that's being ignorant and naive.

Let's pretend for a moment that McCain had won the election. Let's say he pounced on it right away and started skimming the oil off the surface. That's about all we could do, actually, so now what? Is the disaster averted? Hell no. Someone has to take the heat - so who gets it in this situation? I understand the Obama bashing - and he deserves it, but I get the feeling that a lot of the people who are bashing him had no problem several years ago with Cheney having closed door energy policy meetings. Let's be neutral here - Bash Obama, but also bash those who put him in this situation - because he didn't. I don't recall the first Bush doing very much to deal with the Valdez incident - which at the time was relatively just as horrifying as this one in the first few weeks. There's only so much a president can do - he's not a dictator.

During the first week of the spill, these countries offered help, They are: Britain, Canada, Croatia, France, Germany, Ireland, Mexico, the Netherlands, Norway, Romania, South Korea, Spain, and Sweden. There may have been more. We needed to repeal the Jones Act to allow them to help. It has been done before. With this much help we could have contained the spill. And yes, I think any president with half a brain would have accepted the help. Now you have to ask yourself "why didn't we accept"? "Never waste a good crisis". You talk about cleaner energy, France has 75+ nuclear plants, no problem! Did you also know that in over 60 years of Gulf drilling this is the first accident? But it will be a major disaster because we have been sitting around with our heads in our butts. 58 days and no major cleanup effort in site, that's appalling! They should have the Gulf blanketed with skimmers. I don't even live on the Gulf and I'm outraged! On a somewhat related note, why was Michelle Obama at the Lakers playoff game while her husband (that would be BO) gave the Oval Office speech? My wife (if I had one) would have been nearby to lend support! But then I guess it's no biggy! We must frolic with the celebs! Another one on my dollar!

 

[Neal]

Did you also know that in over 60 years of Gulf drilling this is the first accident?

In 1979 IXTOC 1 blew out in the gulf. PEMEX didn't give a shit much like BP. Plenty of environmental impact data from that fiasco. FUBAR...

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

I'm sorry Neal, I should have specified US drilling. The Pemex one was huge also, something like 140 million gallons. The Mexican government claimed "sovereign immunity"so they wouldn't have to pay for damage on foreign shores, at least BP is paying.

 

[Chris P.]

Actually, there was already another spill going on at the same time as this one - I posted a link earlier in the thread.

I don't understand why the Jones Act keeps other countries' ships from helping with the clean up - that act (the Merchant Marine Act of 1920) limited ships involved in interstate commerce. Maybe because something has to be done with the oil it falls under the act, I don't know.

I agree - the more information comes out (or doesn't), the more I am appalled at how Obama is handling this (or not handling it.) But again, even if we did start skimming the oil off early on, it will still be a major disaster because not all the oil is rising right up to the surface. Obama's stumble on the oil skimming is NOT the only thing making this an environmental disaster - we just haven't seen the other affects yet.

 

[Charlie Farley]

" I'm sorry Neal, I should have specified US drilling ".

But this was US drilling. The rig was operated by a US company and the supposed safety valves installed by a US company.
How convenient that Obama keeps saying ' British Petroleum '.
Why doesn't he tell the truth to the majority of the US electorate ?
What about the BoPhal explosion in India, Union Carbide killed THOUSANDS of poor people,
I guess poor people don't count, but shrimp do.
And just as an aside, i recently read an interview with a Gulf shrimper.
He admitted he was suddenly much better off. For years he could not even afford to eat his own catch, he had to sell the pittance he caught.
Now , to paraphrase him, he is laughing all the way to the bank, as BP pays him $ 1200.00 a day to tow booms . In the same report, this was a few weeks ago, an ABC reporter was caught bemoaning the fact that there were no good shots of oil fouling the beaches. What a bunch of parasites.

 

[Jack]

Andy, I'm wondering how far this limitless payout will extend. The babysitter that is no longer needed because her employer is collecting his check for doing nothing?
You get the idea!

 

[Jack]

Additionally, BP's a multi national group and about 40% U.S. invested. I REALLY WANT THEM TO SUCCEED!

 

[Charlie Farley]

Molleur,

I get your drift and agree.
It just sticks in my throat that Obama is employing biggoted tactics.
I thought only whites could do that ? Or have i been brainwashed by
the wisshy washy liberal left ? Hay Ho, we learn how the sands shift
anew , every day.
BP has to stand by this disaster, but it should be as widely known,
that American companies were also involved, at the ' well head '.
Why are they not being asked to stump up a bail out fund ?
It seems like there are a different set of rules for the ' foreigners ' !
If this stupid arsed obama continues his dumb, simple rhetoric,
the time for the ' grassy knoll ' may not be long off.
After all, we have many ex servicemen, involved in Iraq & Afghan suffering from ptsd !
Lets see if the NSA software picks up on that.
NSA, welcome to tea and cucumber sandwiches 24/7.

 

[Jack]

Much easier in the "blame game" to point fingers and sprew-up a villain.
You should hear the bashing Tony Hayward is getting on the "Hill" today.

He's taking it like a man and answering silly questions as best he can, and I believe doing so honestly.

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

Joe barton had it right, it was a "shakedown''. Where does the government get off telling private business what to do. They should have been told to go "shit in their hat" and come back when your more civil. I believe that BP has every intention of handleing this honorably. It's government demonizing big business. If I have a choice between big government and big business, I'll opt for big business, they are not creating a massive debt that we'll be paying forever, they help to pay for it. And I too want to see BP do well, it's in our own best interest.

 

[Doug S.]

You should hear the bashing Tony Hayward is getting on the "Hill" today.

He's taking it like a man and answering silly questions as best he can, and I believe doing so honestly.

What little I've seen has shown Hayward being evasive and uncooperative. I think if Hayward were going to be honest, his answer ought to have been "I am not going to answer that question" at times, not the smug grin and doublespeak. He has won no favor with me, regardless of his assertion that he feels great sadness and feels responsible.

Joe barton had it right, it was a "shakedown''. Where does the government get off telling private business what to do. They should have been told to go "shit in their hat" and come back when your more civil. I believe that BP has every intention of handleing this honorably. It's government demonizing big business.

Al, I'd like to believe that Big Business would, in fact, handle situations like this honorably, but history teaches us a different lesson. Exxon spent as little as they wanted to clean up Prince Williams Sound after the Exxon Valdez incident and then unilaterally made the decision that they had spent enough and would spend no more. The Bush administration didn't have the balls to challenge them and make them do what it takes to handle the issue in an honorable manner......having said that, though, I'll admit BP seems more interested in doing the "honorable" thing than Exxon did, within reason (which means they will keep their eyes on the main goal...the bottom line).

There must be some sort of common ground, but for the life of me I can't figure out where it lies....each of the entities seems to be as much at odds as do our country's two polarized political parties, gridlock seems to be the order of the day. Sad, indeed :thumbsdown:

Doug

 

[Terry Teadtke]

If there's any little thing that can be considered good about this disaster it has to be we haven't heard a thing from Dick Cheney, not a peep. Maybe Cheney should be brought before Congress to let the American people know the details of the energy policy that was made behind closed doors. He really should have no problem with that if he has nothing to hide. Wouldn't you agree?

IMSA07

 

[Keith]

And where, may I ask, is your very own Noble (sic) Prize Winner in all of this?

I would have thought this was right up his alley..

But maybe there's been enough 'gore' spilt on the Hill already today.. :laugh:

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

And where, may I ask, is your very own Noble (sic) Prize Winner in all of this?

I would have thought this was right up his alley..

But maybe there's been enough 'gore' spilt on the Hill already today.. :laugh:

He's burning calories with his new friend, and with his fat ass that's a good thing.

 

[Terry Teadtke]

I'm so confused.

So Republicans were angry at Obama because he's not involved enough in all this and he's just an "empty suit" who doesn't know what to do. Stupid Obama is flailing because he doesn't know how to make BP accountable.

Now they're angry at Obama because he instituted a "shakedown" of a private corporation by organizing a meeting at the White House that BP was never obligated to attend, except in so much as that not attending would have given them an even worse public image than they've already managed to cultivate for themselves. Stupid Obama is trying to make BP accountable because he's commie fascist and hates <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">America</st1lace></st1:country-region>.

Why don't the republicans just save themselves some time and money by going on the air and saying to the American people

"We know damn well that those of you who continue to support us are astonishing morons of the nth degree. We will continue to lie, cheat, steal, and generally just disregard anything involving honesty, ethics, or hard work, and you will continue voting for us. Also, send us 40% of your gross earnings, and be quiet about it because we don't give a shiat what you think, because we know you don't".

They could end it by screaming "FASCISM!" while a picture of Obama is on the screen, and it would cause every republican supporter to instantly forget everything that came before it.

That could be their only campaign ad in November. Just air it nationwide. Every network, ever affiliate, for every republican candidate, and I can just about guarantee that if it doesn't help their chances, at the very least it's not going to hurt them.

IMSA07

 

[Al Wohlstrom]

I'm so confused.

So Republicans were angry at Obama because he's not involved enough in all this and he's just an "empty suit" who doesn't know what to do. Stupid Obama is flailing because he doesn't know how to make BP accountable.

Now they're angry at Obama because he instituted a "shakedown" of a private corporation by organizing a meeting at the White House that BP was never obligated to attend, except in so much as that not attending would have given them an even worse public image than they've already managed to cultivate for themselves. Stupid Obama is trying to make BP accountable because he's commie fascist and hates <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">America</st1lace></st1:country-region>.

Why don't the republicans just save themselves some time and money by going on the air and saying to the American people

"We know damn well that those of you who continue to support us are astonishing morons of the nth degree. We will continue to lie, cheat, steal, and generally just disregard anything involving honesty, ethics, or hard work, and you will continue voting for us. Also, send us 40% of your gross earnings, and be quiet about it because we don't give a shiat what you think, because we know you don't".

They could end it by screaming "FASCISM!" while a picture of Obama is on the screen, and it would cause every republican supporter to instantly forget everything that came before it.

That could be their only campaign ad in November. Just air it nationwide. Every network, ever affiliate, for every republican candidate, and I can just about guarantee that if it doesn't help their chances, at the very least it's not going to hurt them.

IMSA07

It's not because he's not holding BP accountable, that's a given, they have taken responsibility. It's because he was offered help by a number of countries with the ability to help with the cleanup as early as 3 days after the incident. He refused, at this point we have a half assed cleanup going on. The Governor of Louisiana, Bobby Jindal has a far better handle on the situation than the government and the government is fighting his efforts with red tape and BS every step of the way. It has been 58 days, and the slick should have never gotten to land. Hell I'm a retired building contractor and I know I could do better. It would be hard to do worse!

 

[Terry Teadtke]

Al, Al, Al,
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com

What a short memory you have. I’m surprised that good, righteous, ‘Muricans like you have forgoten the golden rule repeated early and often during the glorious 8 years of Idiot Son’s ‘Mission Accomplished” administration. One may never criticize a sitting president during a time of war. Matter of fact from what we were told time and time again, not only would we be helping the terrorist by criticizing the president, it could be considered treason. Why do you hate ‘Murica Al?



IMSA07

 

[Nick]

Molleur,

Or have i been brainwashed by
the wisshy washy liberal left ?

Andy,

Although I am one of the "wishy washy liberal left" I find myself agreeing with a lot of your posts.

As an Obama supporter, the thing that sticks in my throat is the hypocrisy of ignoring disasters that American oil companies like Texaco and Exxon caused whilst attacking BP.

I am also no Sir Alan Sugar fan but he did seem to speak a lot of sense this morning.

Lord Sugar warned it would take "years, not weeks" to investigate whether BP should be blamed quickly for causing the gulf oil spill.

“There may have been negligence, I don’t know, but Tony Hayward’s right they have to investigate it thoroughly.”

He criticised short term attacks against the BP chief executive. Referring to Hayward’s ‘I’d like my life back’ gaffe, Lord Sugar said “I think it’s a throwaway line, we all say it if you’ve had a bad day at the office, it is unfortunate that he made that statement.”

GMTV, 8.55

Lord Sugar said Hayward should not be balmed for the gulf oil spill as “it is not his fault at all”.

He defended the chief executive’s conduct at Congressional hearing, saying “The President of the United States is making such a big dramatic event of this, of course it’s terrible but the fact of the matter is [Hayward] is a professional and he has to do what looks like evasive answers at the moment because he hasn’t done the investigation himself."

"I think he’s feeling beaten up, obviously, one can tell from his body language"

He added: "he's doing exactly the right thing."

Lord Sugar also criticised President Obama for using "us as some political tool" and David Cameron for being "silent on the issue."


Regards

Nick

 

[Doug S.]

Lord Sugar said Hayward should not be balmed for the gulf oil spill as “it is not his fault at all”.

He defended the chief executive’s conduct at Congressional hearing, saying “The President of the United States is making such a big dramatic event of this, of course it’s terrible but the fact of the matter is [Hayward] is a professional and he has to do what looks like evasive answers at the moment because he hasn’t done the investigation himself."

"I think he’s feeling beaten up, obviously, one can tell from his body language"
Nick

I could agree with those statements if it weren't for the smug smile and condescending attitude Hayward displayed. He actually seemed to be having some fun sparring with the stuffed shirts who were grilling him.

As for conducting the investigation himself....how much longer does he intend to wait before he starts?

Doug

 

[Jim Craik]

Go Terry!!!