1UZFE for Superlite Coupe - Ideas?

[JohnC]

was the problem because the coils used more current and the edis could not drive them in parrell?

Yes, I feel that was the problem. Since then, I understand others have wired them in series and fired them OK. I would question if there's enough dwell time at high RPM to do this, but no one has reported running out of ignition at high RPM with them in series.

Another interesting setup might be to use Tundra coils, or other type that have integral igniters, wiring them in parallel again, and this way, the EDIS8 module isn't seeing the high current; it's only being used as the "switch" on the low current side. I don't know that anyone has tried this yet, but I think it could work :idea:

 

[tim]

Are people still playing with 1UZ motors???? Too big, too heavy, no cubes.

 

[JohnC]

Too big, too heavy, no cubes.

As compared to what? An LS or SBF?

Too big? It and its sump and accessories will fit in a 700mm cube, making it smaller than a SBF except in width.

Too heavy? It's all aluminum, so is one of the lightest V8's around, weighing less than 440lbs with all accessories. Lighter than either the LS or SBF.

No cubes? If 4.0 stock, or near 5.0, bored & stroked, isn't enough, then turbo or supercharge it. We've seen 800+ HP from turbo motors, and 550+ from supercharged motors, with torque that looks like it came from a big block.

Either an LS or a SBF can make cheaper HP than the UZ, but if you want something with a bit more panache than a pushrod motor, but can't quite plump for a Modena V8, then the UZ is hard to beat.

 

[Terry Oxandale]

I've felt the same way, but there is a LOT of aftermarket support for the LS, and mine weighed (without exhaust manifolds and accessories) 340 lbs as shipped to me. Dressed out I believe it now weighs right at 400 lbs.

I'm not keen about the concept of pushrods either, but I finally came to the conclusion that the transaxle can't tell the difference between pushrod power, or overhead cam power, so I kinda got past that. Most any pushrod motor can be easily built so that the valve-train is not the RPM limiiting factor.

My LS motor is 654 mm long (or short depending on the point of view), and it's width is even less, but dimensions really don't tell the whole story. The type of oil pan, water pump, and if the oil-fill tube/cap adds 100mm to any dimension can change that quickly. With that said, my 6 liter will fit in a 700mm square cube. Put an ITB set-up on it and now I'm out of that cube (barely).

 

[JohnC]

Terry if your LS is in at 400lbs, fully clothed, then you certainly have one light motor, and I stand corrected about the weight. And your point about the aftermarket support for the LS is very valid. Just not my cup of tea, however.

 

[Jack]

JohnC,

Toby has a modded 1UZFE twin turbo in his SL-C, making tons of HP I'm told.
At great expense I'm sure..Must sound great at 8500RPM!

I am a big LS engine fan. Reliable, relatively inexpensive horsepower in a lightweight package.

My favorite combo for the SL-C is the LS376/480 (which is under-rated) and the Ricardo gearbox. Had I not already built an LS1 engine (430 dyno), that would have been my choice.

 

[JohnC]

They're not the cheapest motors to mod :sad: and you can't go to Jegs or Summit to buy the parts (most gofast stuff has to be built)

But they do sound nice way up there. Since the firing order is the same as the chebbie, they sound somewhat like a SBC up to around 4K; after that they definitely make their own music.

Here's a dyno clip of my first motor with supercharger:


We were blowing the exhaust off on every pull, and as you can see, afterburning quite a bit of methanol in the exhaust too (I was spraying around 600cc/min methanol to cool the charge air). We were down on power, and only put 498 to the dyno (after supercharger loss), and it wasn't until we pulled the motor off that we realised both exhaust cams had been ground 11 degrees off (at the cam)

Next motor should do at least 600-650 to the dyno.

 

[Doug Clark]

Hi Tim,

There's probably more being done with 1UZ's in Aus than the USA even.
From the importers 1UZ half cuts are less than A$2500 motors with fruit are about A$1500.
If your budget is not (as mine wouldn't) going to stretch to LS1 land then these are a great way to go IMHO. If the cost of an LS1 in Aus doesn't frighten you then thats probably the sensible route to go, but the forced induction route on a 1UZ is a cheap way to go and if it goes bang throw $1500 at it and put another in.

Personally also I didn't want a push rod motor out of pure prejudice but thats just me.

 

[tim]

Lighter than an LS? No. Cheap? An Ls engine is cheaper. Buy Toyota Dizzy Caps or sensors that are broken then tell me the price. They are old tech now. Look at an LS6, LS3 or LS7 no production motor comes close to power, torque and weight. The 1UZ half cuts are old in Japan now so engine will have high kms.

Anyone saying they don't like pushrods etc... I bet if they drove a car with an LS engine they couldn't tell if it was a pushrod or overhead cam engine.

498HP with methanol!!! I'll drive my LS6 Kennel Bell powered 600RWHP any day, on premium unleaded too.

The cheap 1UZ to make 498HP, How much did this motor cost?

LS6 engine complete 31miles on it $2500, supercharger $6500 complete 600RWHP. No dyno time needed, on PULP gas.

I'll leave the 1UZ too Freddy Flinstone to work on with Barny....

 

[Ron Earp]

Lighter than an LS? No. Cheap? An Ls engine is cheaper. Buy Toyota Dizzy Caps or sensors that are broken then tell me the price. They are old tech now. Look at an LS6, LS3 or LS7 no production motor comes close to power, torque and weight.

Anyone saying they don't like pushrods etc... I bet if they drove a car with an LS engine they couldn't tell if it was a pushrod or overhead cam engine.
.

Totally agree. And I'm a self-professed GM hater. But they damn sure did those right.

 

[tim]

LS6 Superchargered 6LBS boost.

YouTube - Kenne Bell Corvette

 

[JohnC]

Tim, you have a cam in block engine, with 2 valves per cylinder, actuated by pushrod technology, which is basically a descendant of the 50 year old SBC, and you're calling a DOHC V8 with 4 valves per cylinder "old tech"? If that's not the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is?

The UZ family has had crank triggered EFI since its inception, back in '89. And it was designed in, not added on. Why they initially went with distributors for ignition is anybody's guess, because they had already designed the 2JZ-GTE for the Supra with full crank triggered injection and ignition. Anyway, it's a doddle to pull the dizzies off and go full crank trigger, with COP, just as Lexus did with the later VVTi UZ's.

You're absolutely right about the cost, however. Building a high output 1UZ is not cheap, and the LS is definitely the king of cheap HP. It's just that some of us are more interested in how our HP is made, than the final result.

It's like the difference in enjoying a fine wine or a $3.00 bottle of Boone's Farm. Both will achieve the same final result, but it's how you get there that differentiates the two.

 

[tim]

True, I have played with 1UZ many years ago. There are alot of people out there with them sitting in there sheds not used, why? Because of costs. Try to get horsepower out of them and watch the money being spent. They are a 270hp engine and yes they are old tech now. The LS engines are based on an old design, but are different in every aspect in there technology compared to a SBC. Porsche have done the same with there engines, they have been refined them over many years.

In how horsepower is made the I'm sorry but the GM products are now world leaders. Look at the 2009 ZR1 Supercharged engine and the horsepower it produces and what the engine costs to buy new.

Modified 1UZ engine? These are the questions, cost, reliability, horsepower, emissions.

This engine is going in a Superlite Coupe? Race car only? What if some one wants a road car? Would this motor meet US emissions?

Watch this Video and see how far the Yanks have come in engine performance against the Worlds best bench mark.

YouTube - Corvette ZR1 vs Lambo SV by autocar.co.uk

 

[Dave Lindemann]

I've felt the same way, but there is a LOT of aftermarket support for the LS, and mine weighed (without exhaust manifolds and accessories) 340 lbs as shipped to me. Dressed out I believe it now weighs right at 400 lbs.

<SNIP>

Terry - Are you sure about the weight? I have a LS3 crate engine and without accessories (no starter, alternator, AC pump, etc) but with exhaust manifolds and it weighed in at 400 lbs (+/-). The LS engines give great HP for the $ but the 1UZ has its strong points as well. Its all in what one wants to do - I was ready to do a TT 1UZ until a tornado got me side tracked. I think I'll be very happy with the LS3 but the TT 1UZ would have been pretty cool too.

Regards,
Dave L

 

[Ron Earp]

and you're calling a DOHC V8 with 4 valves per cylinder "old tech"? If that's not the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is?.

It isn't as if 4V DOHC engines are "new tech". They've been around since the early 1900s. The concept was used in car racing engines as early as 1913 with Peugot followed by some other companies like Alfa and Maserati. 4V DOHC engines entered mainstream production in the 1960s and 2V DOHC engines were in production even earlier. And, if you move over to aircraft engines there are many high performance examples.

 

[tim]

Bottom line, an engine is just an air pump!!! Some people like say the have quad cam 4 valves etc..... Means nothing too me, cheap reliable horsepower is the name of the game for me. Yes everyone wants 600hp bragging rites and so on. But it cant see the reason for trying to re invent the wheel on something that needs custom parts, methanol additives and spending $20,000 on $500 dollar import engine.
I have seen 1000hp 1UZ motor in a Jetboat here in Perth 10 years ago, the money spent on it to make that Horsepower was high... Do they run these engines now?. No there are better engines avaliable.
I would rather cheap high horsepower with reliability and spend the money saved on brakes to match the performance of the engine.

Living next door to this guy for 25 years I mite have become arrogant when people talk Horsepower and speed.

World Land Speed Record - Land Speed Record

 

[JohnC]

Tim, if Enzo were still around, I don't think he'd buy into your description that one of his V12 works of engineering art is "just an air pump". :laugh:

For me, the engine is the heart & soul of the car. HP and top speed are just numbers, and IMO it's about how it all sounds, feels, and works together that gives the car its personality, and journalists their license to describe them. Terms like "shrieking Matra's", "wailing Ferrari's", "thundering big blocks", give so much more depth and beauty to these machines.

But, I'm done; I think there's plenty of room in this hotrodding fraternity for pushrod fans, overhead cam fans, as well as naturally aspirated and forced induction camps. Oh, and I forgot to mention the rotaries!

 

[Mark Hamstra]

And, if you move over to aircraft engines there are many high performance examples.

Pardon? If you are talking current piston aircraft engines, aren't almost all of them rather low-tech, even antiquated, designs of modest performance. I'm well aware that there were some pretty impressive piston engines used in some planes of the 1940s and 1950s, but the flat-4 and flat-6, air-cooled engines that dominate general aviation strike me as neither high-tech nor high-performance.

 

[Ron Earp]

Pardon? If you are talking current piston aircraft engines, aren't almost all of them rather low-tech, even antiquated, designs of modest performance. I'm well aware that there were some pretty impressive piston engines used in some planes of the 1940s and 1950s, but the flat-4 and flat-6, air-cooled engines that dominate general aviation strike me as neither high-tech nor high-performance.

Not general avaiation engines like I fly, those things are serious antiques! But as you mentioned high performance engines from the 30s, 40s, and 50s. 4V OHC layouts were used in many of them.

 

[Doug Clark]

Tim it sounds like your trying to justify the choices you've made by attacking other peoples decisions.

People building their own cars are apt to make very individual decisions and in the end people use what they use for their own reasons and they largely DGAS what others think about it. If we didn't we we wouldn't be building our own cars in the first place.

For what its worth when my 1UZ-FE arrived on the pallet the weight from the shipping co was 220Kg, including the pallet and everything from the airbox to the cats and the electronics.