302, is this the right way to go?

[Charlie Farley]

Hello Chaps,
Ive done the search and not found a close enough answer, so please dont cane me for asking!!
At the moment, im looking at building an RF.
My initial thoughts are something like a 302 engine, but am i on the right track?
Ive noticed that 40's can achieve up to 200mph. This IMHO is way to way close to god!and how often will i use that?
Ive rebuilt an early 70's Carerra and managed an 'indicated' 155 in that. That was scary enough, bearing in mind traffic.I cant see me doing more than 2 trackdays a year, and no racing.
I obviously like acceleration, but can only see me hitting 150's rarely. Bearing this in mind, couldnt i fit a final drive for this sort of top end and still achieve times to 60 mph, to still embarass the 'Prancing Carthorses'? If anyone has ideas, and judging by what ive read, there are many out there, please let me know what sort of specs you think i should aim for. By the way, having grown up with induction roar, its got to be webers. Just as an aside, i used to race a 2 cylinder BDA-8 valve Fiat Topolino(road going 500cc model) spaceframe, looking back, crazy s***t.

 

[JOHNBGT40]

Good question!

Fisrt I would like to congradulate you on your choice of RF. I have one on order. I was at the Run And Gun in the states and took a good look at the RF kit. It Is OUTSTANDING! I also was able to take it for a test drive. Belive me 200MPH will be no problem with the car using a 302. When I drove the car, it is so well balanced that 150MPH will feel like 80MPH. Robert went to great lengths to give the customer a quility kit..what ever you decide about the motor won't matter ...you will be to busy giggling when you step on the go pedel.


Regards John


RF116 on order

 

[Bill D]

Hello Charlie-

You can pick up a nice Ford crate motor and add some Webers. You will have plenty of power, enough the trample the prancing horses.

 

[Mike Dozier]

For street use a 302 is an inexpensive/reliable/torquey engine. But in stock form it's not going to get past 150.
In fact you'd need quite a radical 302 to hit 200 mph...
assuming your tires/gearing are up to the task.

And steep gearing can make the situation worse....
In fact top speed in a Viper or Corvette is in 5th gear.
Their 6th gear is so highly underdriven, they can't pull
enough revs to overcome wind drag at high speed.

Speed costs $$$...how fast do you want to go?
How quickly you want to accelerate? Beat the red cars?
You may want to look into a G50 rather than the Audi box.

MikeD

 

[JOHNBGT40]

True! about the viper and the vette.However, both of cars are engineered for the street..they are more heavy and less streamlined than the 40.

Regards

 

[Mike Dozier]

I'm not sure the CD of a GT40 is better than the C5 or C6.
Certainly the reduced weight of the GT will help acceleration....but I doubt the 800 lb savings adds that
much to the top end. A lot of high powered sports cars
never approached 200 mph.

But we digress...I'm sure Charley would be quite happy with
a crate 302 such as Bill suggested....just don't expect
500 hp performance from a 350 hp combination.

MikeD

 

[Lynn Larsen]

Charlie,

Given the description of what you want from your car, my personal opinion is that you will be very happy with a 302. Right now, I have a nearly bone stock 5.0L EFI that I bought from Ford (I only added a Pro-M MAF, BBK 70mm throttle body and BOS headers.) The car is very quick with this engine and you will be able to spank nearly any production car with no problem and be right there with the remainder. I can virtually guarantee that you will not be embarrassed.

Regards,
Lynn

 

[Bill D]

From my 2005 Ford Racing and Performance catalog:

302/340 HP long block (M-6007-XB3M, 9:1 compression, uses E303 cam, GT-40 aluminum heads). List price $3,850 USD
302/345 HP long block (M-6007-XE3M, 9:1 compression, uses X303 cam, GT-40 aluminum heads). List price $3,850 USD
302/360 HP long block (M-6007-Z50E, 9:1 compression, uses E303 cam, "Z" aluminum heads). List price $5,495 USD
302/390 HP long block (M-6007-Z50Z, 10:1 compression, uses Z303 cam, "Z" aluminum heads). List price $5,895
342/400 HP crate motor (M-6007-A342, 10:1 compression, uses X303 cam, GT-40 aluminum heads). No price listed
347/450 HP crate motor (M-4007-C347, 9.7:1 compression, uses special cam, "Z" aluminum heads). List price $6,995 USD

Cheers
Bill D

 

[Charlie Farley]

Many thanks all,
As always, you help is most appreciated.Judging by the prices Bill D posted, it seems that prices your side of the pond are considerably cheaper than here in the UK. Does anyone know, is it financially worthwhile to import from USA when import taxes are taken into account? Are there also any technical issues involved ?
Many thanks for your answers.

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Charlie,
Its normally better I find, even afetr shipping and taxes taken into account; but always do your home work at home first. Also, make sure you check out the HMC&E site for 'their' exchange rates. They are normally different to current rates, set for the month, and not favourable, that way your duty generaly works out more... Apart from a few bits, most of the parts I am buying for my engine are coming from the US, and my aircon, pedals... savings glour (over £50 just on Wilwood clutch and brake pedals) and my aircon has arrived shipped and paid up for under 500.

The general equation goes like this: [(cost of product inc shipping x exchange rate)*duty]*VAT

Seems like a lot when you look at it, but if you work it out in Excel etc its not, especially if you opt for USPS ground (however this can take up to a month).

Also, I forgot to say you'll need to phone up HMC&E to find out what the duty rates are on certain items i.e engine parts.

Brett

 

[Charlie Farley]

Cheers bret,
However, not sure what all the HMC & E and USPS is? Can you tell us what the normal duty is? in % terms, if poss.Sorry to be a newbie, but id REALLY be stupid not to clarify things.
Also, id be real interested to hear about your build, one thing i noticed, is you went for a Melia body. I live just down the road from him. Id appreciate hearing your views.
If you can tear yourself away from 'the baby', give me a PM, would be most appreciated.
From the uninitiated, but eager scholar.

 

[colin artus]

HMC&E - Her Majesties Customs & Excise (just changed its name now it is incorporated with the Inland Revenue)
USPS - United States Postal Service (source of all those ' going postal' jokes)

Duty for engine parts is 4% and VAT (17.5%) is charged on the total including postage.The post office (if you are using USPS) will add an 'adminstration charge' for customs processing which I recall being between £8 and £ 20. USPS ground can take up to 3 months and the chances of something going missing or getting damaged whilst hanging around in the system must be worse for all the time. On occasion items come through the system with no charges ( because the staff cant be bothered to refer the item to customs dept?). Generally I find UPS more reliable for the bigger value items however you will definitely pay all the tax with them. Best is if your supplier in the States has an account with an air freight firm like Bax Global and passes on the bulk saving on cost to you; they will be at least half the price of UPS retail.

Colin Artus

 

[Charlie Farley]

Many thanks Colin,
I was having a 'blonde moment' when i didnt cotton-on to HMC&E, sorry for that!
Ill take onboard your points in my calculations.
As an overseas customer, when buying from US, are you entitled to be 'nil' rated on the question of paying US Tax on the items , as the items are for 'Export'. In other words, can you claim back tax paid in US, but still of course, pay VAT and Import Duties once its received in UK?

 

[colin artus]

Yes, but the tax won't be charged in the first place as these are state taxes and only apply to customers resident in that state; they simply don't apply the tax to out of state customers.

Colin

 

[Charlie Farley]

Very many thanks for your answers.I sincerely hope this thread is of as much use to all us builders in the UK.Especially regarding the tax situation.
At first glance, US prices, for engines in my instance, look good.I'll be looking at prices closely.
Once again, THANKS Colin , on behalf of UK 'uninitiated' for your time.

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Also, what needs to be mentioned is ParcelForces or who ever charges for 'processing' this will add to the cost.

I generally find it cheaper even after all this!

Brett

 

[John W]

An alternative is to look at someone like knight racing services, who regularly buy bits from the US by the crate load. You might find it isn't significantly dearer to have them build & dyno your engine than buying all the bits individually.
Have a good look at Keith Kraft too, as he ships engines for a sensible price.

 

[Howard Jones]

I am "certain" that my car will pull 5000 revs in 5th. Thats 140 or so. With a 6500 rev chip in the NSD thats a 171MPH top end . Now as I've said elsewhere I think these kinds of speeds in "public" are not responcible but they are certainly possible. I have a 375hp 302 in my car.

A 350 to 400 hp 302 is plenty.