audi 093 vs porsche 016 gearbox

[Ben Peterson]

To premise, I am a poser and am leeching info from this forum. Though I will admit, the gt40 is one of my dream cars probably second after the pagani zonda R. Back to the real world, I own a porsche 944 that will soon have a GM V8. It seems all the info on audi/porsche transmission seems to go on here so I would love to glean that info from you guys.

My question is about the difference between the gearboxes with codes 016 and 093. The 093 (I've seen it also called a 016 3Q box) has a final gear ration of .48 which would almost be too long as my final gear ratio. This would give me a lovely final rpm for highway traveling and get me a better mpg. Would that final gear be interchangeable with the final gear in the 944 which I believe is a 016 gearbox?

If that is not possible, what about the final gear ration of a 013 3T gearbox? That has a decent ratio of .60?

If that is not possible and no one has any other brilliant transmission suggestions. I would love to find a 016 3U gearbox which i think was only a european spec box but has a .64 final ratio that would still be better than what I currently have. Anyone know where I could find one?

Thanks,
Ben

 

[Cliff Beer]

Hi Ben, thanks for the disclosure! I think you'll find there are some smart folks here with regard to transaxles and what works and what doesn't. I'm not one of them, but I can share a couple insights.

I've had a few 016's apart, done my best to improve them (new seals, bearings, install LSD, etc.) and they seem like pretty straight forward boxes to me. I like them because they're light - I can easily remove/install one by myself - and inexpensive, and seem to be up to the task of a small block Ford if the power isn't crazy big and the mode of usage is "mature".

I recently installed an LSD out of an 016 that came out of a porsche 944turbo into an 016 from an audi 5000. It was very straight forward and everything fit easily with no modifications needed anywhere. The 016 which I took apart to retrieve the LSD (the one from a 944T...) was stamped 016 (not 093 or some other number) and looked identical to what comes out of an audi 5000 (minus the clutch arrangement obviously...). As I understand it, there are some different ratios and such between the two transaxles (as is the case between any of the flavors of 016's) but everything internally and externally looked the same to me (other than the clutch arrangement).

The 016 3U is extremely rare in the US, I doubt you'd find one. I have an AFC coded 016 in my GT40 and the final drive ratio is wonderful - easy 2,100rpm cruising at 65mph and a reasonable 1st gear which isn't a stump puller. So long as the box holds together over time I couldn't be happier with it.

Scott Dewitt is probably the brains on the forum here you should speak with.

 

[René]

don't know much about gearboxes, but last week I was looking around on the GT-Forte website and under GTs40 de luxe starter kit there was some more mentioned what could be interesting for some builders I guess...

they mentioned the audo 016 gearbox, which was more for the more "normal" power, and then they mentioned the audi 01E which can handle 700bhp reliable and also not that expensive as some Porsche Turbo gearboxes?

The engine is nominally the 302 SB Ford. Other engines will fit but when we did the research on engines the Ford V8's seem to be on par cost wise with anything else but also added a lot of value to the finished car, so for us it wasn't worth exploring any other options. The gearbox is the Audi 016 (for standard power engines ) or 5speed/6speed Audi 01E for tuned engines.

The gearbox choice came from the staggering costs of getting a Renault UN1 and then rebuilding it to take even modest power, most customers spending £2000+ to make their gearbox handle the power. We realised that a standard 016 would take standard power outputs without any rebuild costs and purchase price is £20-£100 used (in face we have bought several for £20 each from eBay) and the 01E is capable of 700 BHP reliably and these cost about £350 used or we supply new 6 speed for £1300.

 

[Scott]

they mentioned the Audi 016 gearbox, which was more for the more "normal" power, and then they mentioned the Audi 01E which can handle 700bhp reliable and also not that expensive as some Porsche Turbo gearboxes?

I'd rate the 016 @ 350ft/lbs and the 01E @ 650ft/lbs, assuming "Normal" driving. Add in drag racing or other forms of abuse, and those numbers are reduced.

 

[Scott]

Deleted duplicate post

 

[Ben Peterson]

Could someone give me more details on the 01E box. Is the bolt pattern similar to the 016? Is it a direct swap or would I have to do a lot of fabrication? Was the 01E in US models? I'm very interested in a stronger transmission because I would love to run a 392 stroker ls1 but I'd be putting down 400ft/lbs or more. I also would love a higher final gear, what are the gear ratios? Are there longer overdrive gears available?

sorry its taken me so long to respond, I assumed I would have gotten emails about replies. sorry.

 

[Eric A.]

Could someone give me more details on the 01E box. Is the bolt pattern similar to the 016? Is it a direct swap or would I have to do a lot of fabrication? Was the 01E in US models? I'm very interested in a stronger transmission because I would love to run a 392 stroker ls1 but I'd be putting down 400ft/lbs or more. I also would love a higher final gear, what are the gear ratios? Are there longer overdrive gears available?

sorry its taken me so long to respond, I assumed I would have gotten emails about replies. sorry.

There are some differences in the bellhousing bolt pattern and the input shafts are different so it would not be a direct swap. The FWD only model of the 01E was not used in any U.S. cars so they have to be imported. I believe that Scott at Advanced Automotion has different gear sets for them. I make an adapter kit for the 01E to the LS engines if you need one.

 

[Ben Peterson]

I believe the Porsche 968 used a 01E model tranmission box. I think that's a direct swap with the 944. Could those gears be used in the 968 box? I haven't thought of using the 968 gearset since the gears not even close to what you want.

 

[Scott]

I believe the Porsche 968 used a 01E model tranmission box. I think that's a direct swap with the 944. Could those gears be used in the 968 box? I haven't thought of using the 968 gearset since the gears not even close to what you want.

The 968 and 016 in the 944 have a completely different bell housing pattern. To put a 968 01E in a 944 you need to use a 968 torque tube and a bunch of other stuff.