Edumacate me on SPF-CAV-RCR?

Scott Calabro

Supporter
Such problems CHARLIE C !!!!!

I would venture to say that if your 70 Cuda' is a documented original stick car, its probably worth more, or at least equal to a new SPF !!!

Buy whatever REPLICA GT40 you want.

Sympathy from Massachusetts.....
Scott
 

charlie c

Lifetime Supporter
5150 said:
Such problems CHARLIE C !!!!!

I would venture to say that if your 70 Cuda' is a documented original stick car, its probably worth more, or at least equal to a new SPF !!!

Buy whatever REPLICA GT40 you want.

Sympathy from Massachusetts.....
Scott
Hee hee.... I WISH! The Cuda was born a 318 Barracuda, brown on brown or some such nasty color combo, and cloned into a 440 Cuda in the late 1980's, when I bought it for $13.5k at Carlisle, pretty much as you see it. I've put a new trans, exhaust, and shoes on her, but all told I'm in it for less than $20k. The Charger was bought for $3500 as a roller in '91, blew a junkyard 440, and is on her second 440. Maybe I've got $35k into that one, but it IS a real 440 R/T. Recent developments in Mopar prices are what got me looking at GT40s! The Cuda is an awesome cruiser, but I could never see spending $100k on a vintage Mopar that drives like a loaf of bread when GT40 replicas are in that range. I've seen the $2m hemicuda, and it drives a bit better than mine, but I reckon Mopar prices are totally out of whack.

SSR = wife's.
Magnum = daily driver/family SUV.
Lotus = mantoy.

I started all this by lusting after a new Ford GT, and it is an awesome piece of work, but something about it fails to excite me.... at $160k... when I see GT40 replicas that look GNARLY for much less... so I got the Lotus. (?)

Regarding continuation serial numbers and all that... if I wind up in an SPF car, the continuation status will be merely an interesting couple of sentences in any discussion of the car. An interesting tidbit, but certainly, for me anyway, no reason to pay more for that car than for another "identical" car. I have no interest in owning one of the "original" cars, they belong in museums. I want a car that I can tinker with, beat on, and get spare parts for. That's "real" enough for me!
 
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Sandy

Gulf GT40
Lifetime Supporter
charliec said:
I want a car that I can tinker with, beat on, and get spare parts for. That's "real" enough for me!
I think that is a great attitude Charlie, I am very much the same way. I hear that my car will be shipping next week so will let you know when it comes in if your interested in taking a look.

Sandy
 

charlie c

Lifetime Supporter
Sandy said:
I think that is a great attitude Charlie, I am very much the same way. I hear that my car will be shipping next week so will let you know when it comes in if your interested in taking a look.

Sandy
Sandy - Most definitely I am interested in taking a gander at the fabled RCR when it arrives! Let me know when it comes, and maybe on a Friday we can ogle the RCR and take a swing by Bob's in the Cuda... - Charlie
 

charlie c

Lifetime Supporter
Okay, in the last four months I've read a zillion posts, watched a thousand in-car videos on YouTube, gone through two sets of tires on the Lotus Elise, been to a more than a few open track events, and learned a lot. I'm still a total newbie, but I'm even more convinced that I want a GT40 replica. A big, honkin', gulf-flared beastie with steamrollers out back!

However, now I am realizing that my priorities are a little different than when I started, and I'm wondering which replica might fit these new criteria:

1 - CAGE - I know the sanctioning bodies aren't loving mono chassis cars, but is it any different for tube-frame cars that can have a burly welded-in cage that can be inspected? Not that I am a member of, or have any concrete plans to join, a racing organization, but my reasoning is that it would be wise to try hard to adhere to what rules can be adhered to when building a car, so I don't wind up with a favorite car that won't pass tech someday, somewhere... Here is what I definitely DO like the look of, safety-wise, provided it's kosher with no bar connecting the top corner of the windshield to the top corner of the rear hoop... I'd go even farther; what about the full door bars, top bar, and footwell box? How does something like this pic compare to the bolt-to-the-mono, 6-point cage offered by RCR? (btw: what is the consensus on caged cars; track only+helmets required, or safe for the street if you pad the bars enough? Are full cages even street legal in CA?):



2 - FUEL CELLS - Me want. Me want these very much. Do any of the mono cars have clear space in the sponsons (ie: no internal ribs or bracing) that could accomodate a custom FuelSafe cell, sliding in from the front through a removable panel (with the front suspension off, I realize), or loading from the outside (like the ones in the pic), or are the panels of the sponson "too structural" for that? CAV makes mention of fuel cells on their website, but it's not clear what sort they are. Likewise with SPF. With the talk of US fuel additives eroding some of the foam tank inserts used elsewhere, I really like the idea of ordering the actual FuelSafe brand cell. It would seem that with one of these inside the hollow metal shell of the sponson, you'd be safer and closer to compliant (bulkheads?) in terms of your fuel system.



3 - REPAIRABILITY - Eventually I WILL go into the dirt. What happens if I tweak the chassis? In terms of repairability/weldability/modifiability, what are your opinions on tube vs. mono? Steel vs. stainless vs. aluminum? Is drilling and welding on an aluminum tub trickier/less advised than a steel tube-frame, when doing various mods? With the Elise's aluminum tub, there's no putting it on the frame machine after it's bent... one big tweak, and it's all over for the tub. Is this the case with steel tubs as well as aluminum? What do ya do with a tweaked RCR tub? :confused:

Obviously, if I'm driving a Superformance, I will be a little (a LOT!) more scared of going backwards into the dirt than if I was driving a track-oriented replica with lots of modern safety features. I think I'd rather have a car that I'm not afraid to push a little bit, drives like a big honkin' Lotus, and just happens to look like a GT40. I'm okay with the idea of big wheels, big brakes, front splitter, etc., and I don't mind a climb-in car with big harnesses. The money I don't spend on the full alcantara interior can go to AP brakes and the fire system. :D

I don't know exactly where the "cut-off" point is for street-legality in CA via SB100, in terms of full cages, harnesses, in-cockpit fire systems, 'race' dashes, etc., but obviously this will affect my decision as well. Suffice to say I see all manner of EXTREMELY sketchy vehicles (open pipes on rat rods, chopper trikes, ProStreet cars, etc.) every single week here in SoCal, and they're all wearing current tags. Anybody care to chime in? At what point does my car become a 'track-only' car? With the Lotus, it happens when the cage, 6-points, battery cutoffs, and fire system go in (Cup Car). After some of the videos I've downloaded of bad moments in motorsports (!), and a few weekends roasting at Willow Springs (106mph at 106 deg F!), I say bring on the HANS, fireproof jockstrap, permanent coolshirt and helmet air systems, and all that jazz. If I'm getting a bespoke car, why the heck not?

All of a sudden, things like the DRB look good to me, because of the simple steel cage-like frame, whereas before it wasn't a contender... but it seems that all the tube-frame cars are from the UK or downunder and have frightening lead times.

All this said, I still have my finger hovering over the "Buy-It-Now" button on a few 2006 Ford GT auctions, am scheming about swapping the Elise for an Exige S, and if I find myself a nice finished CAV or whatever with SB100 and a good price, who knows? I might not be able to resist...depending how many of the above mods could be retrofitted.

What's up with a CAV GT-R? Not much specific info over there....

BTW: Anybody know this car?

http://www.vipclassics.com/sdcc/uploads/viewpage.phtml?id=2162427

Fran, how about making a tube-frame, full-cage, fuel-celled, SCCA-compliant GT40-R variant? Can't you just hang a MkI body on the SuperLight roadster? :D rockonsmile ;)
 
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Fran Hall RCR

Moderator
GT40s Sponsor
Charlie,
if you are looking for a car like Iain's spectacular (tube chassis shown above) you will have to build it yourself or pay a rather large sum to have one built for you.

Mono-vs-tube frame has been discussed at great length...in a shunt both will need to be jigged to be repaired correctly and removing steel tubing or aluminum chassis sections are equally time consuming and labourious....repairs should only really be done by the factory that manufactures the chassis or by an official factory trained and approved shop,as opposed to a Fred in the Shed type expert.

Adding a bolt in cage to a mono is no different than adding a bolt in cage to a production car....a mono is basically , in simplistic terms, a unibody.

I know with RCR cars our mount points are supported inside the chassis with unseen internal bracing...not just sitting on top of a flat panel as it may appear.

Shop wisely with lead times and useage in mind and I am sure you will be happy with whatever you choose...

Superformance is still a replica,by the way.
A well built custom track car , tube or mono will not cost much less than a used Ford GT......if you are paying a race shop to build it for you, that is....
Race cars are race cars and it does not matter whether it looks like a GT40 or a C6 Corvette.....

We offer FIA FT3 fuel bladders made by in the UK by a supplier to the original GT40's (have a few sets being delivered very soon)...we do recommend a full cage to compliment the bladders.

Feel free to get in touch with us directly if we can help....
 
Fran

"I know with RCR cars our mount points are supported inside the chassis with unseen internal bracing...not just sitting on top of a flat panel as it may appear".

Didn't know that, v re-assuring. From my viewpoint, intending that my RCR40 is track focussed, it just gets better and better. I shall order mine with bag tanks and cage.

Best John

ps sorry for thread drift.
 

charlie c

Lifetime Supporter
Thread drift encouraged.... !

For a second it was starting to look like the original-ish and/or mono cars were sacrificing the ability to do modern safety mods for the sake of... originality, I guess. As long as some sort of "approved" fuelcell is in there, I'm cool. I just didn't like the idea of the "fuel tanks - integral, with baffles, as original" concept! :)

I'm gonna hook up with Sandy and ogle his RCR.... I'm sure that will be most illuminating! Anxious to see one running! :D
 
Charlie

Thanks for cutting me some slack! There are a number of good alternatives out there each with its own merits, both space frame and monocoque. As you've probably gathered, after much research, I'm going with RCR. For what its worth I'm a qualified engineer who has also done 4 seasons of car racing in the UK as well as a few track days on a Yam R1 so looked carefully at both the safety and construction aspects before making my choice.

Good luck with whatever path you tread

Regards

John
 
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charlie c

Lifetime Supporter
Where is this Dean Lampes car of which you speak?

BTW: I know next to nothing about what we're talking about, so each conversation changes my opinions 270 degrees at least! All I know is that the Elise is a hoot, and I want more hoot! ;)
 

Fran Hall RCR

Moderator
GT40s Sponsor
Re; Your Elise- its an aluminum mono......the chassis is glued togther not even welded.....:D

Dean has not unveiled his car to the World yet but he will soon...I have seen pics and it is awesome.....polished chassis too....Oh my!!!!!
 
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Scott Calabro

Supporter
Hi charliec

Have you looked at a Tornado TS40 ?

The deluxe chassis package is literally a GT40 in a box. All you need to complete it is an engine, battery and brake fluid. Oh and bodywork and paint, but that would have to be done with any car.

At todays exchange rate a standard equipped TS40 could be delivered to your door for + or - 58K.

Cheers,
S
 
I have been so busy lately that I have not updated my build thread. I will eventually but if you want some more info about a track RCR, just give me a call. 618 322 6046

The car has a 2 tank + swirl pot recirculating fuel system, drysump aluminum Yates engine with webers, Dual swaybars, 2-way adjustable shocks, full cage, race specific wiring, 17 and 15 inch race wheels, fire suppression system, and most of the other options Fran has mentioned including the 4 inch wider rear end. Did I forget to mention AC? I like to pretend I'm a racer but lets not get carried away, it gets hot in there! ;)

The cool thing about a kit is you can build what you want.
 

Andy Sheldon

Tornado Sports Cars
GT40s Sponsor
Chaliec

We can supply a chassis with all of the additional cross bracing as shown in the picture and I do not think it would add that much to the cost either.

We have space for the fuel cells also.

If you are interested let me know.

Thanks

Andy
 
Hi Charlie
We have a 145 CAV's running out there. Most are in the USA, but we also have distributors in England, Australia,Germany and Brazil. I do believe that our product is of a very high standard, and I invite you to please contact me at [email protected] if you need further information.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Regards
Jean Fourie
 
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