ERA GT not mentioned much

[Lloyd]

Not to start a flame war. My intention was if you really want an ERA don't let the wait scare you.
I bought the ERA because in my mind quality fit and finish was high on my list, not that this was the only car that is a quality Kit. If you recall my last car was a factory five Cobra. I was impressed by the final fit, the way the panels were finished both inside and out. Price was not a concern. I live twenty minutes away from ERA.
I appollogize if I offended any fellow gt40 owners. I'm sure we all think our car is the best.
I will edit my post

LLoyd

 

[Ron Earp]

When I started looking for GT40s in 1999/2000 I found the same thing that Howard did. GTD was just going out of business at that time so that was not an option. Tornado was available but I couldn't find anyone in the US with one, and their agent in the NE was incredibly unhelpful (This has changed, call Andy direct and he can help you out).

ERA's were available as well but were simply out of my price range. At $54k with a lot of sourcing to go in order for the package to become a complete kit, I couldn't afford it. I learned more about the NZ and Australian outfits that Howard mentioned and spent a lot of time with NZ GT40 and RF in Australia, with the rest of what I did probably being well known to most on the forum as I bought an RF kit and am now waiting on a turnkey.

But, more to the point, I think find ERA's GT40 market position unenviable at the moment. I do think they produce high quality cars and one of the best on the market for sure, no question of that at all. But I don't feel that they are untouchable for quality, performance, etc. these days because things have changed a good bit since they started offering their replica.

The new CAV cars are gorgeous and seem to be excellently done with the new improvements on current chassis cars. The Superformance car seems to be more accurate (metal roof, repro transaxle for BB, lots of in house exact fab parts) than the ERA for those looking for that sort of thing, and it is a turnkey minus for around $75k (with CAV being about the same price, come now, you're going to get some options).

And then RCR's offerings look very tasty indeed for more in the way of monocoque cars that you can build, as well as RF and GT40 Australia with tube frame cars in the US. RF is tooling to go turn key minus like Superformance and CAV are now, so all three will compete in the turnkey market for US business and will probably do so fiercely.

I think that ERA is producing the same high quality car they have always done, but, they have not altered anything to combat the new offerings on the market. This doesn't mean that ERA isn't as good as the other cars, quite the contrary, they are still an incredible car. I think that the other companies have come to, and in some cases surpassed, ERA's standard they set so many years ago and are simply doing it for less money. ERA set the bar and it is a fantastic standard, but the market has changed a lot in the last ten years. Obviously, some will take issue with what I've written but I am simply writing it as I see it.

No matter what you choose you can't go wrong with the current crop of GT40 replicas. Seriously, it is a lot different than it was 6 years ago when there was not much to choose from and some weren't even replicas much at all (T3, Lone Star).

Ron

 

[Velez]

Ron my first ERA was one of the first to have the Gulf fenders and radiator cover. ERA makes changes on their car to offer more options on the car to make it closer to the real 40. The new tub is stainless steel and the foot pedal are adjustable. Better and bigger brakes are available. Peter always goes the extra mile for the client and not only for me but for all his clients.

I also have one of the early ERA Cobras and the difference to their current car is night and day. Better options are available to make the cobra perferm.

Like many customer we love our ERA but more important is the friend we have made at ERA

 

[Ron Earp]

Hi Jose,

I think I should have done a better job with this statement in my original post:

[ QUOTE ]

I think that ERA is producing the same high quality car they have always done, but, they have not altered anything to combat the new offerings on the market.

[/ QUOTE ]

As you point out and I also knew, they have made improvements to an already fantastic car to make it better. What I was trying to say was they have not changed anything with respect to production times nor price - the wait has remained about the same for as long as I've been messing with GT40s and the price also about the same.

You mentioned in an eariler post the cost of an ERA is higher but that is the price for craftsmanship and quality. I submit that the times have changed and now one can have a car that has the same craftsmanship and quality (kit and turnkey) but at a lower price. Like any industry, as it becomes more mature the products typically become increasingly better while the price decreases. Now with so many good replicas on the market I think the price of quality has significantly decreased over the last six years. Doesn't change anything about the ERA cars though, top quality replicas they are.

Best,
Ron

 

[Mike Dozier]

Ron

IMHO ERA doesn't intend to change their strategy.
They know they are more expensive/longer leadtime...
but their quality and reputation apparently
will continue to support (5-10) cars per year
for as long as ERA wants to keep production low.

While I'd love to see ERA drop their price and ramp up
production, I fully understand that's a difficult and risky
proposition for a small business to make.
So most of us will purchase another make of replica,
which as you aptly put it, are now outstanding quality
and value compared to what was available a few years ago.
Capitalism at it's best.

MikeD

 

[Velez]

Hi Ron:

I quality and craftmanship could be equal but the detail and exactness sets the ERA apart. The RF is made in Australia and the chassis is frame tube. The wages is Australia is about 1/3 of the US so your labor cost, property is much less than in the US. EPA, labor laws makes things built in the US very expenaive. You can built a cheaper car Australia and in South Africa. I have not seen the SuperPeformance GT40 but their Cobras could not come close to ERA. The RCR 40 does not have the detail of the ERA GT. They all look similar to the 40 but the difference is under the fiberglass.

ERA are built in New Britain CT. CT is one of the most expensive states in the US. I have talked to Peter in building a less expensive frame tube GT40 but that is not their market. Delivery times are getting shorter.

 

[John B]

What does the location of the manafacturer,Labor cost, have to do with exactness or build quality? The quality of the fiberglass and craftmanship will match ERA.....Compitition is getting stiff in the Gt40 market enabling a customer to get a high quility car at a more resonable price. Their are several ERA GT40's available for sale but are slow to sell because of the high asking price. I called on one last week and the gentelman wanted $95,000 firm. ERA is a great product...but at a stiff price. RF,CAV,SPF made vast inprovments that wil match ERA quility but for a more affordable price.


Regards oliver

 

[Bill D]

What sets ERA apart from the others is their SSTL monocoque chassis. It is very similar in design to an original. Making the chassis is the hardest part of the ERA GT40. It's painstakingly slow, but immensley accurate.

Bill D

 

[Ron Earp]

Jose,

I'm not knocking ERA at all with quality of their kits and cars. They are good.

And, please understand I'm not comparing RF cars to ERA either, they are a tube frame car and are in a different group for most people since the mono/tube division exists in the GT40 market. The major ERA competitors right now are Superformance and CAV, both monocoque cars. RCR will probably become one too.

The new CAV cars are stunning it appears and an improvement on a pretty good car as it was. Fantastic components are great fit and finish for the fraction of a complete ERA kit. Their chassis is not dead nuts accurate, but it is a strong design.

With Superformance, I disagree with their cars not being close to the ERA. The early ones I saw (production in 90s) were not nearly as good as the later year models. Have you looked at a production model made in the last 12 months or so? Stunning, the Daytona Coupe and the Cobras both. If the GT40 is of that level of finish then it'll be every bit as good as an ERA at a fraction of the cost of a complete ERA kit. The Superformance chassis is dead nuts accurate and it appears that Jimmy Price has taken the time to detail even the minute parts - have a look at some of the posts on the car over the past year here.

I'm not making a case for not buying an ERA or buying another make. I'm just indicating that the market has changed drastically in the last six years and if one wants high quality, exactness, and great performance they don't have to wait on ERA if they don't wish too.

I agree with Mike in that ERA doesn't have to change a thing either if they don't wish too - they've got plenty of people lined up to purchase as many of their product as they are willing to build per year. Lots of loyal and happy customers who are repeat buyers, as you are. I understand that too since once I sold my RF kit I purchased an RF turnkey, when I could have gone with one of the newer and arguably better makes. I went with RF again because it was a known quantity to me and I enjoyed working with the company.

 

[Hershal Byrd]

Well here we go again. Jose, you have a vey, very, nice GT. A good choice for YOU. The operative word here is choice. You bought what you felt was exactly what you wanted. Guess what...I did the same. Now once again as I have said before ERA GT's are fantastic.(I saw your at Carlisle) Not what I wanted. I chose the RF for many reasons. The one that was most important to me was modern engineering and keeping the classic looks. Space frames are not inferior as some may think. Even the new Ford GT has a space frame. Ferrari used the space frame up until 15 yrs or so. Detail and exactness is there on RF's as well, just not a 3/4 copy of the origanal like an ERA. The RF is really different. There was no intention to make it an exact copy of an original. It was designed to use modern technology without losing the looks. Now the fit and finish on my GT is as good as any ERA.
The difference between the Australian dollar and ours is 19 cents not 33 cents as you stated. South African wages are really low and that is why we opened a factory there. We wanted to build the same quality car so that more people could afford to have a GT40 replica.The price difference from Australia to South Africa GT40 is about $18,000 dollars savings to the customer. That buying USA statment doesn't hold up any more. You can't even buy one American car that hasn't got at least 30% of the parts from another country. So don't climb on RF or anyone else for being in the world market. Peter knows his market and that's a good thing. RF is not in his market nor is ERA in ours.
It seems that there are some ERA owners out there that feel they have the SUPERIOR GT40. They don't, What they have is what they decided to buy because THEY felt it had what they wanted in a GT. I would say this kind of crap is what makes for problems on a forum like this. I really like looking and talking about all the GT's. Seeing the different approaches to the engineering on these cars is neat. It really shows the talent out there. Even ERA went stainless on their mono.
One more thing before I get off this soap box. Superformance Cobras have square tube space frames. So does the ERA's. Nothing wrong with that. They are no where near an original Cobra chassis. Why? I know why. I think you do to. But then when it comes to a GT they both would have us believe they are closer to original copies. Both the ERA and the Superformance cars are variations of the original. Just like everyone else's. So don't belittle the space frame as long as the two are making Cobras with with them.
The mono costs more to setup to build than a space frame but once you are set up the cost and time to build is as fast and as cheap as a space frame.

Hersh /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[John B]

WELL!!!! I guess hershal sumed up things!

Hershal!!!your a fluffer that turned into a pitbull /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/1poke.gif

 

[Dan W]

I hate to say it, but like politics Hersh you will always have the far end of each spectrum thinking thier way is best, spaceframe/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/1poke.gifmono. It just simmers in the background on the forum and then pops up from time to time. The die hards on each end will never get thier mind changed , maybe just the "moderates"lol, in the middle.
At least the rude name calling stayed behind the curtain .cheers /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

ERA have been at this longer than anyone else, at least continuously. They do build a nice car. They don't build very many. They have posted occasionally on the Forum and are generally helpful guys. Occasionally they will sell bits that they make, although this is not their main line of business.
As noted, they don't build a lot of vehicles. Their owner pool is rather small, but satisfied- I can't recall hearing any complaints about their cars. This forum came into existence at a time when a lot of other manufacturers, some good, some not so good, were coming into the market. Prospective buyers now had more choices. What is interesting is that ERA didn't, or couldn't, increase production even though the demand was obviously climbing. They still seem to have the same backlog that they had before- two years- and everyone that waits for an ERA seems happy with what they have.
I do think that for the money an RF is a better deal. Obviously, a rapid result was not what I went for (not intentionally I hasten to add) I have waited longer than two years and hope finally to be driving GT40P1149 in 2006. (XXX) What is interesting to me is how little the boom in GT40s and all the interest generated by the new Ford car has affected ERA- really their position, their price, their level of output haven't changed at all. They just seem to go on doing what they are doing, which, from my experience in seeing their cars, they do well.

 

[Robert Logan]

Dan,

I agree with your comments regarding the "two tribes" looking at things for either end of the spectrum.

I believe that ERA build a GREAT car and it was the replicar I most admired when I started to build the Roaring Forties cars. Their quality of work was and still is excellent.

In support of Hershal, ERA are in a different market place but only slightly different. I believe that the Jimmy Price car is what will make ERA relook at what they are doing and for that matter what all the manufacturers are doing. Jimmy is a great businessman and I for one am very glad that such business acurman is finally in this industry. Rich Anderson from Mid States Cobra is another great businessman if I were to comment on the kit car industry as a whole.

The " discussion " of which is better will ALWAYS be with us like the Big Block - Small Block (BB-SB) discussion is a major thing with all things Cobra, even more so than the Ford - Chev thing.

The important thing is choise and that "warm glowey feeling" that a customer must have about the car they choose.

ERA is a small operation by choice and by design. They produce great GT40's and great Cobra's in all their Marks and they were the industry leaders for many , many years and some would say still are with some of their products. I have always respected their dedication to this fickle industry and to the persuit of excellence and I will still respect and acknowledge their ongoing contribution to this great industry.

Best wishes,

Robert

 

[Lloyd]

Robert

You hit the nail on the head with ford/chevy thing we might as well be arguing over what color is the best. We all have bought our cars for different reasons. I know back in Jan 2000 when i placed the order with ERA for my GT. Very few GT40 kits were available. Today it might be a different story. I sure the bar is being raised every day on lower prices and raising quality. Tough if you're the manufacturer. With ERA 20 minutes from my house I was able to see several cars being build. Being able to talk directly ERA techs, Ted is the master builder, I was able to stop in and see how they build their cars. I enjoy the build as much being able to drive the car i assembled.

Its Christmas eve Merry Christmas / Happy holidays to all the GT40 owners and families




LLoyd

 

[Mike Dozier]

Well this one kinda strayed off topic a little....
we really didn't hear much from the ERA contingent why
so few ERA owners participate on the Forum.

Hersh...one clarification if I might....you mentioned
that a mono is cost effective (compared to a space frame)
once the tooling is done. That may be true of a
"simple" mono like RCR or CAV...but it sure isn't true
of the original tubs...just looking at all the seperate
pieces, lightening holes, etc in the David Brown or
Lee Holman chassis shows how complicated/time consuming
the original was.
Happy Holidays to all.

Mike

 

[Ron Earp]

With respect to not hearing much about ERA it might be because there aren't that many around. I don't know what chassis number they are up to, but at 5 or 6 a year (number I've heard but don't know for fact) and building them for 15 years would barely net them 60 cars out there. And, some are undoubtedly not finished. And, some are owned, like the local fellow here in Raleigh, by people that don't get on the internet.

In contrast I think the first CAV within about 2-3 years made over 100 chassis before changing over. GTD put out hundreds when they were in production, I think I was told around 400+? RF just passed over 100 not too long ago, GT40 Australia is getting up there in number too, as is Tornado which, if I am not mistaken, is actually the longest continuous GT40 producer, correct?

And, I'll go on a limb here - age/demographics might be part of it too. ERA's prices have been the same, relatively, of the eight years I've known about them. And, steep. So, it wasn't a casual or average guy that could purchase one. I'd reckon it was an older gentleman with lots of disposable cash, on average, and a lot of those fellows don't have time for the internet and many of them, my dad would fall into this category (minus the lots of disposable cash part) just won't/don't use the internet for their social interaction. They do that old school, face to face in a social environment. So, that might be why we don't see as many here.

 

[Velez]

Hello Mr. Byrd:

You have a few errors on your comment:

1. The Exchange for a US Dollar is 1.37 AU. The wages in Australia an Engineer Average is $30K Aus. Dollar. Factor the exchange and you can not get an engineer in the US for $20K. Property in Australia is Cheap. They are the sixe of US with the Population of 20M.

2. The only reason you have two camps is that frame tube is way cheaper that mono and Ford did it to lower cost and easy manufacturing.

3. I do not feel superior to anyone because I purchased an ERA GT which is better etc. I admire all the cars in the industry specially the ones built by their owners and the personality the car gets and the effort they put to get the parts. No matter what brand or car it is. All my ERA cars are turnkey and the only value I add is to keep pushing for new things and to improve the car for this century. My GT40 is use by ERA for shows and Demo. I am not afraid to put it in harms way at track events with my two very "old" friend.

4. I try to explain why ERA are more expensive and the effort ERA make to reproduce their cars closer to the originals. The buy in America on a road car with the world economy is not the same sample of buying a kit car US made in the same continent and similar time zone. Your support is better. Check ERA website to see their effort in explaining their product and how they are built. Bob has put a lot of effort in helping other people get their ideas.

5. The reasons that US car company buys parts from other countries is that is cheaper. That is why you get 30% or more parts from other countries. Those countries do not have a strong regulations and wages cost.

6. I did it without being offensive or personal.

Ron:

1. I have seen many SuperPerformance Cobras including their Daytona Coupe. The shape of the Cobra is not correct. The rear fenders are narrow and the nose is not right. No originals are not alike either. Peter built 2 replicas of his original Cobra with the same wheels etc. It was hard to find out which car was original side by side even with the hood up.

2. SuperPerformance got money and other benefits from the South Africa Goverment Just like Airbus which is killing Boeing on comercial airplanes. Besides their GT40 MK-II that was showed last May I have not seen any more of them. Their website only shows the car in a pallet. Their website only says that SPF GT 002 and 003 are taking shape.

2. The CAV site from your link in the GT40s site does not work. Are they out of business.

 

[Gary Gibbs]

The bottom line for me concerning ERA is this. They build a great car. Their customers love their product. At the low volumes they produce I think they will be largely uneffected by the other makes. Maybe their back log will drop, but until they can not sell every car they make I do not see things changing (for ERA).

 

I dont own a GT40 , because i cant aford one at this time.
but from what i have seen and read the difference between
the cars comes down to a matter of taste and dollar amount.
Everyone is different in what they actually want, the main
concept of the cars is you buy it and make it the way you
want it done. You can place a dollar amount on the cars but
does that make it a better car than someone elses no it dont.
Everybodys car on this site has a value that is personal to
each owner , If a person wants to build go for it reguardless
of price, it is amatter of personal satisfaction. If you got
the money to buy a car built and that is what you go for that
to. i dont see where one car is better than another one , the
craftmanship that is put into design and completion of the cars
is that of the best seen anywhere . when it comes to price get
what you can aford and enjoy it. thats all that matters.