ERA GT not mentioned much
- Thread starter mikes69z
- Start date
I would prefer to call you Jose but because you called me MR. then it's only fair that I do the same out of respect. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Mr.Velez, You are correct in accordance to the conversion rate of U.S. dollar to Australian dollar.I said 19 cents you said 1/3 (33cents) So I was 7 cent low and you were 7 cents high. I should have checked the present day exchange rates as I used information from one of my bank transfers that was almost six months old. I was surprised to see it had moved that much.
On the wages for the engineers. I know what Robert pays his engineer and it is certainly much higher than twenty dollars. I'll let Robert answer to that if he chooses.
I did not intend to make it sound as you personally feeling superior because you own an ERA. If this came across that way I apologies.
I'm still not sure what your point is about the shape of the Superformance to the ERA. I don't know where Superformance took their molds from but even still they could have come off an original and that alone would make it different. As you stated all originals were not alike. So saying Superformance's rear fenders are narrow as apposed to the ERA which you indicate is correct. Correct for an ERA but it certainly does not apply to all other Replicas. If you are going to make comparisions then I would say compare the chassis to an original. WOW! what a difference. Wonder why Peter didn't follow through and do it like Shelby back then? Doesn't matter, They are both great cars and I would be proud to own either. My whole point is about difference is OK. That's what I like to see. Engineers with their own approach. Superformance is different to ERA, not incorrect to ERA. See my point?
If Superformance executives can get grants from their government then more power to them. Samething for AirBus or anyone else in the world market. You do what has to be done to compete.
Your post was not taken as offensive or personal. I sure hope you don't take mine in that light. I get a bit direct sometimes but I certainly don't want to offend anyone. It's conversation, that's all, agree and disagree but I still don't want anyone to feel they are being attacked personally.
You should be able to go to the CAV web site from this forum. Their ad is at the top quite often just click it. It does work.
Hersh /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
On the wages for the engineers. I know what Robert pays his engineer and it is certainly much higher than twenty dollars. I'll let Robert answer to that if he chooses.
I did not intend to make it sound as you personally feeling superior because you own an ERA. If this came across that way I apologies.
I'm still not sure what your point is about the shape of the Superformance to the ERA. I don't know where Superformance took their molds from but even still they could have come off an original and that alone would make it different. As you stated all originals were not alike. So saying Superformance's rear fenders are narrow as apposed to the ERA which you indicate is correct. Correct for an ERA but it certainly does not apply to all other Replicas. If you are going to make comparisions then I would say compare the chassis to an original. WOW! what a difference. Wonder why Peter didn't follow through and do it like Shelby back then? Doesn't matter, They are both great cars and I would be proud to own either. My whole point is about difference is OK. That's what I like to see. Engineers with their own approach. Superformance is different to ERA, not incorrect to ERA. See my point?
If Superformance executives can get grants from their government then more power to them. Samething for AirBus or anyone else in the world market. You do what has to be done to compete.
Your post was not taken as offensive or personal. I sure hope you don't take mine in that light. I get a bit direct sometimes but I certainly don't want to offend anyone. It's conversation, that's all, agree and disagree but I still don't want anyone to feel they are being attacked personally.
You should be able to go to the CAV web site from this forum. Their ad is at the top quite often just click it. It does work.
Hersh /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Ron Earp
Admin
Sorry Llyodd, that is why I said I was going on a limb on that one! But, not too far off in some cases, especially with the internet. I know a LOT of car builders and rodders who just don't do the internet thing and I think they are missing out since a lot of information is traded in this format nowadays.
Jose,
3. (2) I don't know why the Autofutura (CAV) site isn't coming up. They are not out of business, have a look in the CAV/Autofutura forum for what they have been up to. Autofutura is still making nice cars and shipping them around the world. I have asked for clarification on the link though, thanks for bringing it up.
Like I said eariler, I don't have anything against ERA or you. ERA sells all the cars they want to make. But, I stand by my eariler statement that if you want great performance, quality, craftsmanship, etc. times have changed drastically over the past few years and there are multiple options now for far less money than was required previously.
Merry Christmas!
Ron
Jose,
3. (2) I don't know why the Autofutura (CAV) site isn't coming up. They are not out of business, have a look in the CAV/Autofutura forum for what they have been up to. Autofutura is still making nice cars and shipping them around the world. I have asked for clarification on the link though, thanks for bringing it up.
Like I said eariler, I don't have anything against ERA or you. ERA sells all the cars they want to make. But, I stand by my eariler statement that if you want great performance, quality, craftsmanship, etc. times have changed drastically over the past few years and there are multiple options now for far less money than was required previously.
Merry Christmas!
Ron
Ron
Thanks for the old guy comment it was good for a laugh. I could just picture a bunch of old farts firing up 500 HP gt40s and rattling their false teeth.
I like to think the GT was more of a mid-life chrisis than an old guy with excessive money.
This thread is getting way too serious.
I guess another topic not to discuss religion, politics and the best GT40 kit
LLoyd
Thanks for the old guy comment it was good for a laugh. I could just picture a bunch of old farts firing up 500 HP gt40s and rattling their false teeth.
I like to think the GT was more of a mid-life chrisis than an old guy with excessive money.
This thread is getting way too serious.
I guess another topic not to discuss religion, politics and the best GT40 kit
LLoyd
Hershal so it would less formal. What I said "The wages is Australia is about 1/3 of the US" and you quoted the exchange rate. If you do a search on the web you will find the wages in Australia are low compared to the US. I use the engineer sample since I am an engineer and the topic is technical.
15 years ago when I put the deposit for my first ERA GT very few people knew what was a Ford GT40. Peter Portante spoke to other Peter of Safir at Road America in 1994 and Safir had the last production cars (MK-V) and no buyers (he had a few there for sale). Lee Hulman had his Mk-II and no buyers. ERA had tubs and no buyers. The volume was not there. It took Ford to bring the market up and the low cost manufactures to save the market and bring back the 40 back to life. The price of real 40 is up in the sky. So I am happy to have more people with the same interest and most of the members of this forum do not have a 40 yet
Ron: About the age I got my first ERA GT at 40 years and my other ERA friend (James Holden) is about 6 years older and we do not use a cane yet. Peter is too old to learn how to use a computer but he is in great shape. My first GT was serial number 2002 but it was out of sequence. My current number is 2075 and Holden new cars is close to this. So you are right about their small volume. Their first GT kits were close to $20K
15 years ago when I put the deposit for my first ERA GT very few people knew what was a Ford GT40. Peter Portante spoke to other Peter of Safir at Road America in 1994 and Safir had the last production cars (MK-V) and no buyers (he had a few there for sale). Lee Hulman had his Mk-II and no buyers. ERA had tubs and no buyers. The volume was not there. It took Ford to bring the market up and the low cost manufactures to save the market and bring back the 40 back to life. The price of real 40 is up in the sky. So I am happy to have more people with the same interest and most of the members of this forum do not have a 40 yet
Ron: About the age I got my first ERA GT at 40 years and my other ERA friend (James Holden) is about 6 years older and we do not use a cane yet. Peter is too old to learn how to use a computer but he is in great shape. My first GT was serial number 2002 but it was out of sequence. My current number is 2075 and Holden new cars is close to this. So you are right about their small volume. Their first GT kits were close to $20K
Howard Jones
Supporter
I think Ron is right. It's a low number of owners thing more that anything else. Lets use the roughly 400 GTD chassis for example. I could just about name those GTD guys off the top of my head that we see form time to time on this forum. Way less that 5% of the total. If we apply the same 5% rule to the 80 or so ERA's we come up with just about the number of ERA guys we hear form on this website.
I would guess that the reason we hear more form the RF, CAV, SPF group is because they are in larger numbers combined AND they are in current production.
I would guess that the reason we hear more form the RF, CAV, SPF group is because they are in larger numbers combined AND they are in current production.
Ron Earp
Admin
Fellows, don't take the "old guy" comment directly to heart as I mean "old guy". I think you know what I mean - a fellow who is set in his ways and doesn't use the internet. I know plenty of them, lots of rodders fall into this category - build great cars, very active in the local car scene, but just don't care about doing anything on the internet. I know one ERA user in my area who doesn't use the internet, Blackjack is an ERA user that isn't active on the forum either, but he was here years ago sorting a cooling problem that I think Robert helped him with. Mid-life, or old guy with money, either way, it is someone with the means to purchase a car that is above what the average Ford/Cobra enthusiast could do back in those days.
Anyhow, I still think the numbers are it. There just aren't that many of them out there.
Anyhow, I still think the numbers are it. There just aren't that many of them out there.
Folks:
It's interesting how a thread entitled "ERA GT not mentioned much" has turned into a "discussion" of the relative merits of different brands of GT replicas. As some have observed, it's a bit like politics or religion, with folks saying; "I'm of the same opinion still!", repeated, ever more stridently by those who are committed to one manufacturer or another. What is great about this hobby is that there are more choices with every passing week and each of us has greater opportunity than ever before to express ourselves through those choices.
I can certainly enumerate the reasons and priorities that I considered when I made my choice, but the next individual's choices and priorities may be totally different. ...and that's OK. What may be right for me, may be wrong for someone else. To bottom line it, I haven't seen any other manufacturer's product out there that I would sell my GT to get. At this point each car is essentially custom built by ERA to the purchaser's specifications. There are numerous options and, within reason, they will do extra fabrication, etc. that, I would observe, most other manufacturers may not be able/willing to do. ...and ERA does it "my way."
Having dealt with ERA for over twenty years, I'm more than satisfied that they deliver on the promise, with a quality product, that more than meets my needs. As an aside, a friend, a long time ERA owner purchased a Ferrari Daytona - Corvette conversion kit from another manufacturer. He ultimately ended up having to retain a lawyer and sued to get all his parts. He later laid into Peter at ERA saying; "You spoiled me. I thought all manufacturers would-be as responsive as ERA is." After twenty years and five cars, I'm of a mind not to "change horses". ERA builds the cars they way I want them and (a substantial consideration for me) is that they are great people to work with and only an hour and a half away.
ERA builds approximately forty to fifty ERA427SC and FIAs and approximately four to six ERAGTs each year. To do any more would require a substantial expansion of facilities, out- sourcing of fabrication and obviously a substantial investment of capital. My observation is that (like most items formerly made in this country) the strongest competition is now coming from overseas, where labor, land, and production costs are lower. ERA has, for better or worse, decided to try and keep most of its production in house.
There are probably a number of reasons why there aren't all that many ERA owners actively on this site:
1. Only eighty or so cars have been built over the last fifteen years and most of them have been completed.
2. The cars, even in kit form, are complete as to those items that need to be engineered and/or fabricated. They are bolt together projects and, I would speculate, may not require the same sort of "support network" that some other kits may require.
3. I haven't done any "survey" but as the cost of the ERAGTs has gone up over the years, perhaps the average age of the purchaser has gone up as well, although I'll observe that I was in my thirties when I ordered my first GT.
While I do not post that frequently, I do check the historical threads that pop up from time to time.
With best wishes for a safe and healthy New Year.
Jim Holden
PS: I would suggest, ever so gently, that to attract the greatest participation, the moderator of the site ought, in my opinion, to resist the temptation to weigh in with an opinion on certain topics. There is no surer way to alienate potential users of the forum.
It's interesting how a thread entitled "ERA GT not mentioned much" has turned into a "discussion" of the relative merits of different brands of GT replicas. As some have observed, it's a bit like politics or religion, with folks saying; "I'm of the same opinion still!", repeated, ever more stridently by those who are committed to one manufacturer or another. What is great about this hobby is that there are more choices with every passing week and each of us has greater opportunity than ever before to express ourselves through those choices.
I can certainly enumerate the reasons and priorities that I considered when I made my choice, but the next individual's choices and priorities may be totally different. ...and that's OK. What may be right for me, may be wrong for someone else. To bottom line it, I haven't seen any other manufacturer's product out there that I would sell my GT to get. At this point each car is essentially custom built by ERA to the purchaser's specifications. There are numerous options and, within reason, they will do extra fabrication, etc. that, I would observe, most other manufacturers may not be able/willing to do. ...and ERA does it "my way."
Having dealt with ERA for over twenty years, I'm more than satisfied that they deliver on the promise, with a quality product, that more than meets my needs. As an aside, a friend, a long time ERA owner purchased a Ferrari Daytona - Corvette conversion kit from another manufacturer. He ultimately ended up having to retain a lawyer and sued to get all his parts. He later laid into Peter at ERA saying; "You spoiled me. I thought all manufacturers would-be as responsive as ERA is." After twenty years and five cars, I'm of a mind not to "change horses". ERA builds the cars they way I want them and (a substantial consideration for me) is that they are great people to work with and only an hour and a half away.
ERA builds approximately forty to fifty ERA427SC and FIAs and approximately four to six ERAGTs each year. To do any more would require a substantial expansion of facilities, out- sourcing of fabrication and obviously a substantial investment of capital. My observation is that (like most items formerly made in this country) the strongest competition is now coming from overseas, where labor, land, and production costs are lower. ERA has, for better or worse, decided to try and keep most of its production in house.
There are probably a number of reasons why there aren't all that many ERA owners actively on this site:
1. Only eighty or so cars have been built over the last fifteen years and most of them have been completed.
2. The cars, even in kit form, are complete as to those items that need to be engineered and/or fabricated. They are bolt together projects and, I would speculate, may not require the same sort of "support network" that some other kits may require.
3. I haven't done any "survey" but as the cost of the ERAGTs has gone up over the years, perhaps the average age of the purchaser has gone up as well, although I'll observe that I was in my thirties when I ordered my first GT.
While I do not post that frequently, I do check the historical threads that pop up from time to time.
With best wishes for a safe and healthy New Year.
Jim Holden
PS: I would suggest, ever so gently, that to attract the greatest participation, the moderator of the site ought, in my opinion, to resist the temptation to weigh in with an opinion on certain topics. There is no surer way to alienate potential users of the forum.
Nicely put however,You come off very pompuss. And judging by other ERA owners it seems typical. You state that the "CAR IS BUILT YOUR WAY" I can appreciate that. You are paying top dollar. I can have any of the other companies "BUILD IT MY WAY" If I toss 100K at them. Im sure CAV,RF will give you what you want for 100k. There is a practicality factor. Im also sure that the majority of ERA customers that purchased their cars in a kit were trying to save money on the build. Now that they are over there heads with the the project. They wish they went another route.I will be more than happy to complete any ERA kit owner for 50k and I will build it "THEIR WAY"
Ron Earp
Admin
[ QUOTE ]
PS: I would suggest, ever so gently, that to attract the greatest participation, the moderator of the site ought, in my opinion, to resist the temptation to weigh in with an opinion on certain topics. There is no surer way to alienate potential users of the forum.
[/ QUOTE ]
Jim,
You've only been registered since 2004, probably around long before that though, but I hope you know I generally don't get into these discussions. I do in fact abide by the suggestion you made but, after four years of it, the rule has kept me from participating in most discussions other than flat technical information. This is the first thread of this nature I've joined in a long time and I did so not to put down ERA, as I mentioned many times, but to simply highlight that the market has changed.
I have no horse in this race and I think I've made it clear over the years I don't favor one replica over another. My comments regarding the changing of the market I stand by as I do think it has seriously been altered since you, and even I only five years ago, starting looking for GT replicas. At any rate, it is the last I'll post on this thread or any others that start, or degenerate into, "What is the best GT40?" or "Who's GT40 should I purchase?" or "How is XYZ GT40 replica?". I do think I have been careful over the years though and only in extreme examples where I know something is amiss do I suggest anything along these lines.
Best,
Ron
PS: I would suggest, ever so gently, that to attract the greatest participation, the moderator of the site ought, in my opinion, to resist the temptation to weigh in with an opinion on certain topics. There is no surer way to alienate potential users of the forum.
[/ QUOTE ]
Jim,
You've only been registered since 2004, probably around long before that though, but I hope you know I generally don't get into these discussions. I do in fact abide by the suggestion you made but, after four years of it, the rule has kept me from participating in most discussions other than flat technical information. This is the first thread of this nature I've joined in a long time and I did so not to put down ERA, as I mentioned many times, but to simply highlight that the market has changed.
I have no horse in this race and I think I've made it clear over the years I don't favor one replica over another. My comments regarding the changing of the market I stand by as I do think it has seriously been altered since you, and even I only five years ago, starting looking for GT replicas. At any rate, it is the last I'll post on this thread or any others that start, or degenerate into, "What is the best GT40?" or "Who's GT40 should I purchase?" or "How is XYZ GT40 replica?". I do think I have been careful over the years though and only in extreme examples where I know something is amiss do I suggest anything along these lines.
Best,
Ron
Ron
Your position as Moderator should not and does not exclude
you from these "subjective" threads. IMHO most of us
value your opinion as an intelligent participant,
not on the basis that you are the Forum's Moderator.
I understood your point about the improved VALUE available
today to the consumer versus several years ago...but apparently some members mis-interpretted that as meaning
their replica was not as "good" as others available now.
In terms of "bang for the buck"....I would hope most agree that today's offerings allow a lot more people to realize their dream than when ERA alone was selling in the US.
MikeD
Your position as Moderator should not and does not exclude
you from these "subjective" threads. IMHO most of us
value your opinion as an intelligent participant,
not on the basis that you are the Forum's Moderator.
I understood your point about the improved VALUE available
today to the consumer versus several years ago...but apparently some members mis-interpretted that as meaning
their replica was not as "good" as others available now.
In terms of "bang for the buck"....I would hope most agree that today's offerings allow a lot more people to realize their dream than when ERA alone was selling in the US.
MikeD
Oliver:
My first ERA GT was a street car with Air etc. I did run the car at several events during my ownership. My second ERA GT was built for track only (no registration, no air, no carpet) and this year we played at Poconos and the Glen with the PDA. It is hard for me to practice since the car is in CT and I live in PR. I fly to the track and the time is limited and sometimes the rain kills the event. But the GT is for fun at the track and dinner with good friends.
We all have bias for the product we choose. I agree with Jimmy Holden that ERA build the car my way. Some of you would say it has a price tag. But I know I would get what I paid for without any risk. How many SPF GT are out there in customers hands? The answer is NONE. Have you seen any forum with complains that the paid ERA and did not get their product.
We can write about what is the best GT replica all you what but it boils down to your budget and how much you what to compromise. That is why you have so many GT40 manufacturers. Ron and others can argue that quality, craftmanship etc is available else where. But if your start with a kit that is incorrect to start no matter how good you are the final product is not correct. Again is a matter of compromise. I put a 4V carb on both my GT which is not correct for the MK-I but is my compromise for less problems. Jimmy wanted his to be correct and small wheels etc and he does not wanted to comprimise.
I agree with Jimmy on his bias commentary. Since we both are Bias for our friendship with Peter but we never go out in our commentaries about other manufacturers. Also please excuse my English since is my second language if I am not clear.
As soon as PDA and other groups publish their 2006 schedule I will post them here the ones we will participate.
Happy New Year to All.
My first ERA GT was a street car with Air etc. I did run the car at several events during my ownership. My second ERA GT was built for track only (no registration, no air, no carpet) and this year we played at Poconos and the Glen with the PDA. It is hard for me to practice since the car is in CT and I live in PR. I fly to the track and the time is limited and sometimes the rain kills the event. But the GT is for fun at the track and dinner with good friends.
We all have bias for the product we choose. I agree with Jimmy Holden that ERA build the car my way. Some of you would say it has a price tag. But I know I would get what I paid for without any risk. How many SPF GT are out there in customers hands? The answer is NONE. Have you seen any forum with complains that the paid ERA and did not get their product.
We can write about what is the best GT replica all you what but it boils down to your budget and how much you what to compromise. That is why you have so many GT40 manufacturers. Ron and others can argue that quality, craftmanship etc is available else where. But if your start with a kit that is incorrect to start no matter how good you are the final product is not correct. Again is a matter of compromise. I put a 4V carb on both my GT which is not correct for the MK-I but is my compromise for less problems. Jimmy wanted his to be correct and small wheels etc and he does not wanted to comprimise.
I agree with Jimmy on his bias commentary. Since we both are Bias for our friendship with Peter but we never go out in our commentaries about other manufacturers. Also please excuse my English since is my second language if I am not clear.
As soon as PDA and other groups publish their 2006 schedule I will post them here the ones we will participate.
Happy New Year to All.
[ QUOTE ]
Should A poll be conducted to have the "moderator" banned from the Forum? I would say YES, at the very least a temporary EXILE to correct his behavior /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beat.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
I do not post much (no GT40 so little value to add) but this got me. I am not sure if this is a joke or not, considering it is missing the smiling face, I am guessing it was not. I am confused why the organizer and creator of a site should be banned; this is his house after all, let the guy say what he wants. You do not have to agree with it.
Kevin
Should A poll be conducted to have the "moderator" banned from the Forum? I would say YES, at the very least a temporary EXILE to correct his behavior /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beat.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
I do not post much (no GT40 so little value to add) but this got me. I am not sure if this is a joke or not, considering it is missing the smiling face, I am guessing it was not. I am confused why the organizer and creator of a site should be banned; this is his house after all, let the guy say what he wants. You do not have to agree with it.
Kevin
[ QUOTE ]
Kevin,
The anserw to your question is YES.. it is a joke. They were just poking fun. However, there are a few anal reptiles that don't see outside the box that are serious.
Oliver
[/ QUOTE ]
Woops, my apologies on the misunderstanding. I will return to the regularly scheduled programming of reading about transaxles and stay out of the banter.
Thanks for the forum.
Kevin,
The anserw to your question is YES.. it is a joke. They were just poking fun. However, there are a few anal reptiles that don't see outside the box that are serious.
Oliver
[/ QUOTE ]
Woops, my apologies on the misunderstanding. I will return to the regularly scheduled programming of reading about transaxles and stay out of the banter.
Thanks for the forum.
Ron Earp
Admin
Now Faili, don't make me have to give you another special title! LOL
Kevin, if anything ever gets heated or out of sorts you should ALWAYS go back to reading about transaxles. You've been trained well. I wonder if there is a word we could use and globally replace "transaxle" with that would make the threads entertaining?
Kevin, if anything ever gets heated or out of sorts you should ALWAYS go back to reading about transaxles. You've been trained well. I wonder if there is a word we could use and globally replace "transaxle" with that would make the threads entertaining?
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