Full Wets for Track Days

[Jay Gadsby]

As per the title I'm looking for as many ideas and recommendations as possible.

I'm wanting the best possible wet track tyre for full wet conditions only - no dry track use.

The tyre can be specced as full race, track day, or a road legal tyre. I don't mind; just a tyre that does the best job.

Road tyres to cut slicks; no preconceptions.

If anyone has any real world experience of this I would be grateful for your info.

I'm ready to commission a set of alloys for this. 15's or 17's.

They will be 15 x 8 & 15 x 10 or
17 x 8 & 17 x10's.

Again, I don't mind what diameter, just the best full wet tyre.

Thanks

 

[Howard Jones]

I bought a set of these to fit my SLC just in case. They will (hopefully) spend their life in the trailer. Why? when I was looking into a set of street tires to buy for emergency wet tires to be used for a wet unforeseen track day I found these had a very good wet rating as a summer high speed rated high-performance tire and they were pretty inexpensive.

I tried to match the diameters of the slicks I run but didn't really worry too much about width. I think a slightly narrower tire might just be better in the wet anyway. So I run 275/35/18F and 325/30/19R wets and 295/30/18F and 345/30/19R Slicks

You will not want to drive the car in the rain anyway and not at all if there is standing water on the track.

I won't try and advise on the best all-around tire for a 100% street build that you want to try once or twice on the track other than just say to buy your choice of street tire and live with the reduced performance for a couple of track days.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tire...dewall=Blackwall&partnum=735WR8FHI5&tab=Sizes

Last note: Real wet race tires or Hoosier wets are ONLY good for wet track use and then only a good choice for RACING in the wet. They will age out in the garage or burn out in a hour or two on a dry track. And they are as expensive as the R7 slick Hoosiers.

 

[Jay Gadsby]

Thanks for taking the time to set out your view on this, Howard.
You've put into words better than I could the complexities of this dilemma.

I think most would not want to use their GT40 in the rain, so that probably explains the lack of response to my question.
My guts draw me to a street tyre that's highly regarded for wet weather driving.
But wonder if I'm shooting myself in the foot by not looking at race focused options.

I've looked for some time on the internet for any objective real life comparison tests but it just goes around in circles. (As usual).

I don't think there's going to be a panacea for this situation.

 

[Ron Earp]

If you're looking for a track tire for wet conditions, then the Hoosier W2/H2O is what you want. They're phenomenal in the wet, I really enjoy racing on them. Typically speaking they're not always available in the same size as my dry race tire, but having them one size narrower is not a problem at all, in fact, it can sometimes be preferred for feedback and water shedding capability. Generally I'm running a 245 size tire on my SCCA Mustang and have to use a 225 size rain tire, not a problem at all. Once you've got your rain setup dialed in for swaybar, compression, rebound, and spring choice if you change those, then you'll find these tires are phenomenal.

Now, these are not intermediates. They're not for situations where it rained two hours ago, the sun is peaking out and the puddles are drying. They're for wet use, meaning it is raining, the track is wet, there are puddles and standing water, or, all that has happened and a steady mist or light rain will keep it that way. If it is starting to dry you'll be needing to hunt water to keep the tires sharp and cool.

If you want a good intermediate then you might want to take a look at the current 200TW tires, like the RE71 and similar. These work well in the wet too, but not nearly as good as the HoHo.

 

[Howard Jones]

Ron hit the nail on the head, Hey Ron nice to hear from you!

So a discussion on wet setup versus dry setup is in order. This is the primary reason I just don't like wet sessions. My car is set up for a dry track. It is deadly on a wet one. My guess is the springs are at least 200 Lbs too stiff maybe 350 or 400. I have some old springs F450 R600 that I would try as a swap from the 750F 950R dry setup. Then the shock settings would go back to about 4 to 5 from 12-14 (number of clicks from full soft. Also unhook one side of the rear roll bar and maybe the front too, as well as, crank up the AOA on the rear wing.

This is a lot of work at the track in a rainy paddock, by myself, and in a limited amount of time.

I did run my GT40 on a wet track once. It was a misery on street summer-only tires and a very stiff setup. The only good news was it dried in the afternoon. Mid-engined cars with a lot of HP are inherently tail-happy beasts to begin with. They can be tuned to work well but they will always be a car that does not want to be slid around much. My car has a point of yaw that cannot be saved once exceeded. This will happen faster than you can fart in the rain. I have learned that locking the tires and waiting for the car to stop is the best response once it gets to "that point". If done quickly, once the tires stop turning the car will simply follow the ballistic direction which is usually right down the track, and not hit anything. With a little runoff and some luck, all is well. Trying to drive the car out of a spin will put you in the wall more often than not. That is the usual cause of hitting the wall during track days by newbies in my experience.

But ya Ron is right, real racing will require a developed in-advance wet setup and once know, it would be pretty easy to put on a race car with their adjustable suspension and a helper or two. Streetcar.......not so easy I think. Maybe if the weather report gave you a day or two notice but in that case it might be that staying home is the smart thing to do.

You could go with your daily driver and just have some fun instead of fucking up your pride and joy.

The 200UTQG class of tires is a good choice for a dual-use car but you are really limited to 18-inch wheel diameter tires I forgot about them. Good call Ron.

 

[Howard Jones]

I found this, be sure to check on available sizes.

Grassroots Motorsports ultimate track tire guide

What you need to know before choosing your next track tire.

grassrootsmotorsports.com

 

[Scott t]

have raced many times, dry and wet in Rolex Series, Grand Am Series etc, etc. Never tried the GT40 in wet. Rain tires are very quick to degrade as they are designed to get sticky in cold wet conditions. On dry pavement they melt. If you ever watch F1 or any series, when they are in the wet they are looking for water. If you watch any You Tube, the Goodwood rain races are extremely difficult. Kenny B has some excellent footage in a GT40 and you will see that unless your really really good at driving in the wet in a very high torque and light weight car, your looking to ball her up. Final bit. You may be the greatest rain driver in the world, but that other dude in his 1983 Toyota out to show his friends on a track day just how good a driver he is, may run out of talent and your the stop barrier......

 

[Ron Earp]

This is a lot of work at the track in a rainy paddock, by myself, and in a limited amount of time.

Hey Howard, how's it going?! You speak the Truth here. ^^^^

For us racers without crew, and that's most of us in the SCCA/NASA paddocks, it's a lot of work to swap back and forth between wet and dry setups. I despise those days where it isn't clear cut what we should be running for setup. You'll find a lot of us with the car on jack stands, two rain tires on, two dry tires on, trying to split the difference in time before one has to make a call and go to grid. Besides tires, I have to dial in front and rear rebound/compression, adjusted at opposite ends of the shock requiring crawling under the car at each corner, and disconnecting the front sway bar. Plus, gotta set the pressures in the tires too, so even if I'm really fast and prepped it's 15-20 minutes to get the job all done, wheels torqued, and the car ready to run. And I'm in the driver suit working up a sweat as it's hot as balls in the Southeast US paddocks in racing season.

I love racing in the rain and have had a lot of P1s in the wet. It's enjoyable to me, but only when my car is set correctly. And beyond the chassis, some other practical considerations need to be thought about, such as visibility. Race cars don't have HVAC, so to make sure I can see I have put a front window wire grid defogger on my car which mostly keeps the front window clear. Ditto the rear window. The best car/rain setup in the world isn't worth squat if the driver can't see to drive.

Not sure I'd bother with all this in a street or track day car. Might just forgo driving until the next sunny day!

 

[Ron Earp]

You may be the greatest rain driver in the world, but that other dude in his 1983 Toyota out to show his friends on a track day just how good a driver he is, may run out of talent and your the stop barrier......

More truth.

Remember what they say kids, eight tires stop better than four......