GT40s difficult to build?
- Thread starter petek
- Start date
G
Guest
Guest
Anything is easier than an eight year cobra project. Cheers Richard.
Richard ... ok, you've got me there. But viewed as entertainment value, a 10 year Cobra build has a very substantial return on investment! (If I can get the timing set correctly I'll be taking the car down for paint on May 1!)
GT40bud ... Ah, I see what you mean. So, if you farmed out the fit-finish-paint, then the remainder of the build isn't too tough?
[ April 23, 2002: Message edited by: Pete K ]
[ April 24, 2002: Message edited by: Pete K ]
GT40bud ... Ah, I see what you mean. So, if you farmed out the fit-finish-paint, then the remainder of the build isn't too tough?
[ April 23, 2002: Message edited by: Pete K ]
[ April 24, 2002: Message edited by: Pete K ]
G
Guest
Guest
1.Door fit due to doors being basically in 2 different planes.
2. Enclosed cab as opposed to open top. 5 windows and 4 light covers to fit as opposed to 1 windshield.
3. Mid engine with radiator in front. Extensive coolant transfer pipes and complicated coolant/bleeding system.
4. Complex/problematic shift assembly due to rear transaxle, more so with LHD and center shift. 2 joints, 3 shafts and 2 mechanims as opposed to directly on the trans.
5. Chassis significantly more complex due to torsionally rigid design.
6. More compact and crowded overall due to mid engine,torsionally rigid chassis, closed cab and lower profile. Especially noted in the engine bay.
7. If done properly, extensive air ducting for cab ventilation, brake and engine/radiator cooling/breathing. Including ducts that connect between hinged opening body sections.
8. More quantity and complexity of body panels and hinged body parts. 9 major panels as opposed to 5.
9. More complex crossover headers and compact enclosed exhaust requiring venting and insulation.
10. More complex and crowded dual fuel tank system, as opposed to single uncrowded.
The best is always more difficult.
---------------------------
Four things greater than all things are,
Women and Horses and Power and War.
We spake of them all, but the second the most.....
..... welcome...to the machine.
[ April 24, 2002: Message edited by: Kalun D ]
2. Enclosed cab as opposed to open top. 5 windows and 4 light covers to fit as opposed to 1 windshield.
3. Mid engine with radiator in front. Extensive coolant transfer pipes and complicated coolant/bleeding system.
4. Complex/problematic shift assembly due to rear transaxle, more so with LHD and center shift. 2 joints, 3 shafts and 2 mechanims as opposed to directly on the trans.
5. Chassis significantly more complex due to torsionally rigid design.
6. More compact and crowded overall due to mid engine,torsionally rigid chassis, closed cab and lower profile. Especially noted in the engine bay.
7. If done properly, extensive air ducting for cab ventilation, brake and engine/radiator cooling/breathing. Including ducts that connect between hinged opening body sections.
8. More quantity and complexity of body panels and hinged body parts. 9 major panels as opposed to 5.
9. More complex crossover headers and compact enclosed exhaust requiring venting and insulation.
10. More complex and crowded dual fuel tank system, as opposed to single uncrowded.
The best is always more difficult.
---------------------------
Four things greater than all things are,
Women and Horses and Power and War.
We spake of them all, but the second the most.....
..... welcome...to the machine.
[ April 24, 2002: Message edited by: Kalun D ]
Robert Logan
Defunct Manufactuer - Old RF Company
Pete,
I must agree with Kalun in his assessment but would add air conditioning fitment and a TRIPPLE fuel tank system with three fuel pumps and three fuel filters and a fuel injection management system and associated looms.
All this said the DOORS are the true test of the build and more so on a 40 than any other kit car I know attention to detail is paramount as the engine bay and almost every other area is OFTEN on view.
Good luck and take your time with any GT40 build.
Best wishes,
Robert
I must agree with Kalun in his assessment but would add air conditioning fitment and a TRIPPLE fuel tank system with three fuel pumps and three fuel filters and a fuel injection management system and associated looms.
All this said the DOORS are the true test of the build and more so on a 40 than any other kit car I know attention to detail is paramount as the engine bay and almost every other area is OFTEN on view.
Good luck and take your time with any GT40 build.
Best wishes,
Robert
This is the method that I used to line up the body panels before securing them. I found it to be relatively easy once I'd developed the idea. Has anyone come up with something better or just different? I'd be interested to know.
I clamped together a simple support frame made of wood to approximately the correct hight. I then packed each corner with squares of cardboard for the fine hight adjustments. Horizontal adjustment was simply a matter of sliding the panel left to right on the slippery carboard.
If you look closely you can see the string of the center bob that I used to line the panel up with the center of the space frame. On the sides you can see string that I used as reference point to measure wheel-arch-to-space-frame distances.
The front panel was also located using a similar support, but was a little simpler to build than the rear.
The doors were also located by packing the underneaths with cardboard squares, till they sat correctlty relative to the waist line. I then taped them to the center of the spider section at the top.
[ April 26, 2002: Message edited by: Chris L ]
I clamped together a simple support frame made of wood to approximately the correct hight. I then packed each corner with squares of cardboard for the fine hight adjustments. Horizontal adjustment was simply a matter of sliding the panel left to right on the slippery carboard.
If you look closely you can see the string of the center bob that I used to line the panel up with the center of the space frame. On the sides you can see string that I used as reference point to measure wheel-arch-to-space-frame distances.
The front panel was also located using a similar support, but was a little simpler to build than the rear.
The doors were also located by packing the underneaths with cardboard squares, till they sat correctlty relative to the waist line. I then taped them to the center of the spider section at the top.
[ April 26, 2002: Message edited by: Chris L ]
Robert Logan
Defunct Manufactuer - Old RF Company
Doug,
We also offer to mount the aluminium and body pannels and in fact this has become a very popular option.
We will quote for partial builds, as this is, and have completed four cars this way for Australian customers inside the last eight months or so.
I am in the process of costing a aluminium and body fit and full spray for someone here in Australia. The car will also be fitted with a tripple master cylinder floor mounted peddle box, AP brakes, Koni shock absorbers, ABS, traction control and launch control. These options must all be fitted at the rolling chassis point and will be fitted in house prior to delivery. The potential customer will then fit up the remaining to his car.
I fully understand how people can be completely freeked out with the thought of fitting up the body, but WE offer help in many ways from that reassuring phone call to actually doing it if asked.
I have actully had two cars back from customers who could not spare the time to complete their cars, so we finished the cars for them. I expect to have cars back for partial builds also and we will have a almost finished car delivered to our shop next month for the final check through and to "flash up" the car.
Please do not give away the dream of building your own car because of the aluminium and body fit. We will do this for you and you can finish the projest. I understand the principles of Superformance and CAV but how can you declare with any truth that "I built it" if all you did was drop an engine into it. I dont think you can change the colour of these cars from the standard colours offered.
Good luck with your decission but remember we are here to help you fulfil your dream and I for one cherrish the oportunity to help people with their dreams.
Best wishes,
Robert
We also offer to mount the aluminium and body pannels and in fact this has become a very popular option.
We will quote for partial builds, as this is, and have completed four cars this way for Australian customers inside the last eight months or so.
I am in the process of costing a aluminium and body fit and full spray for someone here in Australia. The car will also be fitted with a tripple master cylinder floor mounted peddle box, AP brakes, Koni shock absorbers, ABS, traction control and launch control. These options must all be fitted at the rolling chassis point and will be fitted in house prior to delivery. The potential customer will then fit up the remaining to his car.
I fully understand how people can be completely freeked out with the thought of fitting up the body, but WE offer help in many ways from that reassuring phone call to actually doing it if asked.
I have actully had two cars back from customers who could not spare the time to complete their cars, so we finished the cars for them. I expect to have cars back for partial builds also and we will have a almost finished car delivered to our shop next month for the final check through and to "flash up" the car.
Please do not give away the dream of building your own car because of the aluminium and body fit. We will do this for you and you can finish the projest. I understand the principles of Superformance and CAV but how can you declare with any truth that "I built it" if all you did was drop an engine into it. I dont think you can change the colour of these cars from the standard colours offered.
Good luck with your decission but remember we are here to help you fulfil your dream and I for one cherrish the oportunity to help people with their dreams.
Best wishes,
Robert
That's great Robert. And, makes sense. After all, if you can offer complete cars you can certainly offer cars with partial builds. And, you're starter kit is only $10,500 including shipping. A fantastic price.
However, Phil Ware's car also comes with most of the steering, suspension, uprights, hubs, etc also attached. With shipping to LA his is about $14,500. What would you charge for a similar set up?
Also, do you offer left hand steering?
Thanks,
Doug
BTW. Gordon Levy recently sent me a brochure of your fantastic car. He is a great representative of your company. My mind is far from made up.
[ April 26, 2002: Message edited by: Doug Barry ]
[ April 26, 2002: Message edited by: Doug Barry ]
However, Phil Ware's car also comes with most of the steering, suspension, uprights, hubs, etc also attached. With shipping to LA his is about $14,500. What would you charge for a similar set up?
Also, do you offer left hand steering?
Thanks,
Doug
BTW. Gordon Levy recently sent me a brochure of your fantastic car. He is a great representative of your company. My mind is far from made up.
[ April 26, 2002: Message edited by: Doug Barry ]
[ April 26, 2002: Message edited by: Doug Barry ]
Doug, Thanks for the kind words. When looking for a kit to build there are several factors you have to concider.
1) Do I have the skill to build a safe car?
2) Is there a good assembly manual?
3) how much out sourcing of parts is there going to be?
4) what is the design quality?
5) Is there good factory support?
6) What is the best kit for your desired end use of the car?
7) is the kit complete?
I was interupted, now to finish.
Way out these factors, then decide.
It is no small undertaking to build a quality car. We are here to help.
[ April 26, 2002: Message edited by: Gordon Levy ]
1) Do I have the skill to build a safe car?
2) Is there a good assembly manual?
3) how much out sourcing of parts is there going to be?
4) what is the design quality?
5) Is there good factory support?
6) What is the best kit for your desired end use of the car?
7) is the kit complete?
I was interupted, now to finish.
Way out these factors, then decide.
It is no small undertaking to build a quality car. We are here to help.
[ April 26, 2002: Message edited by: Gordon Levy ]
Doug,
As a RF owner let me butt in and answer Gordons questions.
1. Kind of but friends make the difference.
2. Yes. I am a little slow so for me the impossible task of having everything spelled out would be nice but just like anything else think it out and do it. Don't over think it just do it, you can always fix mistakes.
3.None. Ok so I had to get some gromets and I don't like slotted screw so got new ones.
4. OUTSTANDING!!
5. Oustanding. No exceptional, fabulous, stupendous. Robert and Gordon are always there when you need them. Believe me I do and will many many more times.
6. Roaring Forties
7. Yes
Get on the phone with these boys and enjoy you RF
John
As a RF owner let me butt in and answer Gordons questions.
1. Kind of but friends make the difference.
2. Yes. I am a little slow so for me the impossible task of having everything spelled out would be nice but just like anything else think it out and do it. Don't over think it just do it, you can always fix mistakes.
3.None. Ok so I had to get some gromets and I don't like slotted screw so got new ones.
4. OUTSTANDING!!
5. Oustanding. No exceptional, fabulous, stupendous. Robert and Gordon are always there when you need them. Believe me I do and will many many more times.
6. Roaring Forties
7. Yes
Get on the phone with these boys and enjoy you RF
John
Robert Logan
Defunct Manufactuer - Old RF Company
Doug,
Yes we do offer a Left Hand Drive and a central gear change. As regards to price the rolling chassis comes complete with all the suspension, brakes and steering. If you wanted us to skin it and fit the body than that would cost Aus $ 12,500 but this includes all parts to complete this job , ie no suprises.
Please contact Gordon to confirm details if you wish.
In regards to the coments made about Gordon, I fully endorse them. I could not be happier with his representing my company. I thank Hershal for introducing him and I hope our work relationship continues to grow as it has done over the last year.
Best wishes,
Robert
Yes we do offer a Left Hand Drive and a central gear change. As regards to price the rolling chassis comes complete with all the suspension, brakes and steering. If you wanted us to skin it and fit the body than that would cost Aus $ 12,500 but this includes all parts to complete this job , ie no suprises.
Please contact Gordon to confirm details if you wish.
In regards to the coments made about Gordon, I fully endorse them. I could not be happier with his representing my company. I thank Hershal for introducing him and I hope our work relationship continues to grow as it has done over the last year.
Best wishes,
Robert
I posted this on an old thread but I think
it was missed by most so here it is again..
Comparing these cars for the novice can be most frustrating. If you know and understand what the purpose of your car will be then you can make a better decision.
I personally wanted a car that was as compfortable on the street as it is on the track. I believe that Robert has accomplished this through a better designed chassis.You have to see it to believe it. As stated in another post Robert's chassis has an impressive number on the deflection and twisting test than the others. As you build this car you can see where there was great pains taken in aquiring rigidity, yet maintain an abundance of room for the passenger and driver.
I am not a trained engineer but I have built nine cars and I learn something new from every one that I build. I may not understand certain geometries but I do know when something is well built with purpose
and not convienance. I for one am happy that someone like Robert Logan has tackled a monumental task of building his own car.
You will have to go a long way to better his accomplishment. Everyday I work on this car I'm thankful I made the choice to build the RF.
I know this sounds like a commercial for RF but when I like something or someone I like to spread the word. Dealing with people like Robert Logan is what will help the kit car industry move into a brighter light.
All that I have said is my own opinion and when you are treated fairly then I feel others should know. If and when I ever find a problem with my car, Robert will be the first to know, then anyone else that cares to listen.
Thanks Robert,
Hersh
it was missed by most so here it is again..
Comparing these cars for the novice can be most frustrating. If you know and understand what the purpose of your car will be then you can make a better decision.
I personally wanted a car that was as compfortable on the street as it is on the track. I believe that Robert has accomplished this through a better designed chassis.You have to see it to believe it. As stated in another post Robert's chassis has an impressive number on the deflection and twisting test than the others. As you build this car you can see where there was great pains taken in aquiring rigidity, yet maintain an abundance of room for the passenger and driver.
I am not a trained engineer but I have built nine cars and I learn something new from every one that I build. I may not understand certain geometries but I do know when something is well built with purpose
and not convienance. I for one am happy that someone like Robert Logan has tackled a monumental task of building his own car.
You will have to go a long way to better his accomplishment. Everyday I work on this car I'm thankful I made the choice to build the RF.
I know this sounds like a commercial for RF but when I like something or someone I like to spread the word. Dealing with people like Robert Logan is what will help the kit car industry move into a brighter light.
All that I have said is my own opinion and when you are treated fairly then I feel others should know. If and when I ever find a problem with my car, Robert will be the first to know, then anyone else that cares to listen.
Thanks Robert,
Hersh
Is the RF available with PIN drive hubs. What uprights are used in Front and rear (OEM or aftermarket, etc.)? Are they steel or alum.?
Seems like a lot of the questions being posed here can be quickly answered with a trip to the Roaring Forties website. Please direct your browser here. (Clicky, clicky)
