QA1 and RamliftPro install

[Dan Carter]

Gents, I'm not a suspension/shock expert so

My car arrived some time ago with the front lift and QA1 shock oriented as shown...the lift kit on the bottom, and the shock installed with the shock strut on top and shock adjusters on the bottom (as I would expect). In this orientation, the lift kit's hydraulic connections are on the bottom of the lift tube.

I have noted that some installers have reversed (simply flipped it 180 degrees with no configuration change) this reversal now places the coil spring next to the lower A arm vice next to the upper A arm (aka in my mind the shock is upside down).

The build manual states the lift kit can be on top or below the spring, but is not specific about the shock itself (can it be installed "upside down"). The lift kit suggest the lift kit can be located either below or on top on the spring.

So here are the questions:

1. First, shouldn't the QA1 shock strut be oriented up (aka coil next to upper A arm) placing the two QA1 adjustment knobs closest to the lower A arm?

2. If so, then the lift kit can either go on top of the spring or under the spring (IAW build manual), but this impacts the orientation of the hydraulic attach points on the lift tube (the two "bleed holes" either on top of or on the bottom of the lift kit). The Ramliftpro web site shows the lift tube located under the spring so the hydraulic access holes are on the bottom of the tube with no bleed port on top. In this configuration (aka the lift kit holes on the bottom), how does one bleed the lift kit tube?

 

[Randy V]

Mounting shocks inverted has been a normal practice on many racing cars to reduce the amount of unsorung weight. Your Ramlift could be mounted on the top for the same reason. I would think you could bleed it off the shock and then install? A simple bolt with two large washers would suffice to keep it from coming apart during the bleeding operation.

 

[Dan Carter]

Is this the "preferred" installation referenced in the build manual?

 

[Scott Rowland]

Invert your previously installed shock. So the body and lift cylinder are connected to chassis, not the suspension.
I would assume the ram lift could be mounted in any orientation like any other hydraulic ram.

 

[John Symonds]

I have been contemplting the same question regarding the front shocks and lift ram on the SL-C. I was at the PRI show on Saturday and specifically addressed the issue of inverting the front shocks with an engineer at the QA-1 booth. According to the engineer, because of the way the shock is designed, it makes no difference which way you mount the shock. I have my shocks inverted with the ram on top, close to the upper A arm.

 

[Dan Carter]

Not exactly on the ram. In closer study of the QA1 billet top that secures the spring to the shock, it has a radiused inside edge. If you try to set this on top of the lift puck, it will fit, however the corresponding edge on the lift puck that mates with the top billet radiused lip is square. So a square edge will ride on a radiused lip with all the weight of the car focused on that contact point. Something would have to give.

If additional spacers were used as shims, then the top billet and the puck would join and disperse the force across two circular flat surfaces. Since the additional spacer were not part of the delivery, I assume at this point a configuration with the puck at the top and the shock oriented with the shaft up, is not a part of the design spec?

 

[Aaron H.]

Dan:

I agree.... The rod end retaining cup of the shock is radiused. The coil siting should go at the location. This would mean that your original installation is correct. That really blows since it's a true pain in the ass to invert them.

 

[Ken Roberts]

I made a thin washer as a transition to accommodate the curved edge. Just cut them out of sheet 6061 aluminum. It takes a couple of hours to cut them out but it saves a trip to a machine shop. The pictures show two different ways of using the shims. The first picture just shows the shim used as a replaceable wear point. I made the shims when I was originally going to mount the setup as in the picture in post #3. I changed my mind and inverted the shock and no longer needed the shim. I kept it however to use as a replaceable wear point. The second picture would address Dan's concern if he chooses to mount the ram at the top (with bleed port up) and the shock not inverted.

The shim is not required in this picture. I just chose to use it as a replaceable wear point.



Here is a picture from Grants build. It shows the shim used to take up the mismatch.

 

[Aaron H.]

How are the parts ( as shipped ) supposed to be installed without modification?

 

[Ken Roberts]

How are the parts ( as shipped ) supposed to be installed without modification?

If you invert the shock and install the ram at the top with the bleed port facing up as in the picture shown in post #7 the shim is not needed. This seems to be the most popular method of install currently.

If you install it as shown in the picture in post #3 then a shim will need to be made or the radius must be machined off. A few years ago this was the most popular method. Some of us made shims and some builders machined the radius. I think it was Allan who was the first to invert the assembly then install the ram at the top with the bleed port facing up.

If you install it as shipped and shown in the picture in post #1 then no shim is needed but it places the bleed port in the least desirable position (down). Also it places the ram on the lower part of the strut which is moving up and down. This means that the hydraulic hose is also going to be moving constantly. Some will argue that the ram in the lower position is considered unsprung weight. I don't agree though as the weight of the ram is still acting upon the the lower a arm no matter what it's position (top installed or bottom). Mounting the strut inverted is beneficial however as this is reducing the unsprung weight.

 

[Frank Clark]

IMHO, you want to install per Aaron's picture above:

http://www.gt40s.com/forum/slc-clubhouse/49450-qa1-ramliftpro-install.html#post502135

The reason everyone above seems to have missed though...

It is a PITA to undo the top shock mount. You have to remove at least one of the A arm mounts to get the bolt out. By using the spring at the bottom method, you can R&R the spring without any difficulty (it is a one man job).

I have changed front springs 3 times and am not done yet.

Yes it also improves the un-sprung weight and yes the QA1s are fine "upside down" (I also verified with QA1). So it is better all the way around.

Also, if you will see any track time, think about going to 2.25" springs (some machining required), as there are much better spring options in that size.

If you have access to a lathe, it is easier to machine the parts rather than cut shims. But the shims are fine.

Also you will probably need helper springs (zero rate). Otherwise bad things can happen when unloaded. There are a number of posts on that.

 

[Dan Carter]

Some info to share: I called both QA1 and RamLift Pro today and got the following information.

1. QA1: Their shocks can be mounted in either direction. The technician did say that the more off vertical the shock is, the more adjustment may be needed. Theirs are one of the few shocks that keep the gas and oil chambers separate which are not impacted by position. So it doesn't matter which way you mount the shock.

2. RamLift Pro: They too stated that it doesn't mater on the orientation of the lift drum. As for bleeding they said with the ram in the closed position, there is very little oil in the tube. So they open the second 1/8 NPT fitting just enough to "leak" while they cycle oil thru the system. Obviously if the "bleeder" is on top, its easier to force any trapped air out. He did caution to never run the pump dry.

Bottom line. It doesn't appear that the orientation of the shock or the lift drum impact he performance of either one. So it boils down to individual preference, ease of maintenance, spring changes etc for the individual builder.

Some excellent points have been made in this discussion which will help me/anyone pondering which way to mount this system. I know I was debating....but I have my answer :2thumbsup:

 

[Cam]

Gents -

I have a different question related to the same parts. The adjustment collar on my QA1 shocks has about a 0.55" lip protruding from the wrenching ears. The relief in the ram lift body has about 0.375" of relief before the ID closes down and the shock collar bottoms. In many of the photos I see I do not see people running spacers of any kind - is a modification of the collar performed (cutting away threads!) or did I get a ran lift body that has insufficient clearance?