Starter Woes

[Bill Bayard]

I am having trouble with my starter on a G50.
The starter drive gear(pinion) engages the ring gear perfectly, about 50% of the time.
The other 50%, it seems to spin before engaging the ring gear, grinding, but not engaging the ring gear at all. The gears mesh perfectly, when they mesh(no binding)
After removing the gearbox for inspection,
the physical evidence bears this out.
I thought perhaps I might have a bad ground,
and ran a ground wire directly from the starter to the chassis, but no joy there.
The voltage seems to be fine.
The starter was very slow the first time I tried to start my engine, I pulled my spark
plugs to see if it would spin faster and it
did not. I waited two hours and tried again
and voila, it spun just fine. I put the plugs back in, and the engine started just
fine. However, since then, this non-meshing problem has become worse.
As I don't want to replace a ring gear, I
am seeking higher knowledge. HELP!
Is this just a faulty starter, or is some-
thing out of alignment?


Bill

 

[Guest]

Bill, Tell us about your starter: Tilton, from Kennedy, Porsche. The problem could certainly be any of the things you mentioned.

 

[Bill Bayard]

Lynn,

My starter is a double reduction one, built
by a company named Castlemaine, in Australia.
I am inclined to eliminate alignment as the
cause of the problem. The intermittent slow/
fast, mesh, no mesh, leads me to believe that
the starter is bad. As the starter pinion
appears to be fully engaging, when it does
engage, I don't think that it is a matter of
the starter being too shallow in the bell-
housing. The lack of binding seems to eliminate the possibility of the starter being offset(out of synch)from the ring gear.
It has been suggested that I machine the
nose piece, and offset the starter outboard
by a couple of mm. Thus the starter would be closer to the ring gear, and the pinion gear
not as tight to the ring gear. I just don't
want to do a bunch of work to a bum starter, if that's the case.
I just can't get past the way it acted when I first started the engine. Slow with the plugs out? Then fast with them out, and back
in? Something's rotten in Denmark!
I made certain that the ring gear and pinion had the proper amount of teeth, as I have seen that happen before.
I believe that you have a G50. Is there a
reverse lockout on a G50?


Bill

 

Hi Bill,
Couple of other basics to check. Although not familiar with the G50 box and starter, the job of meshing the gear (or bendix) with the ringgear is a function of the solenoid not the starter motor (unless it is an old design that used centrifugal force). Problems I have seen similar to yours were caused by a faulty ignition switch were the contacts had arc'ed after a period of time. This caused a voltage drop at the solenoid and sluggish action. When the solenoid is operated to push the bendix into mesh with the ringgear it also closes a set of heavy current contacts which operate the starter motor itself. Sluggish action as mentioned could cause both non meshing of the bendix and slow operation of the starter motor due to sw not closing properly.Bear in mind that the starter draws upwards of 100 amps when running and needs not only a good battery but good contacts everywhere,ign sw, battery,chassis grounds. etc. If you can, try and measure voltage drop along the route while someone operates the starter motor ie between battery terminal and clamp, ignition switch supply and solenoid. Any voltage drop of above 1 volt should be investigated. Good luck.
cheers
Dave

 

[Frank Catt]

Check the CCA (COLD CRANKING AMPERAGE) of your battery, its usually related, Frank

 

[Bill Bayard]

Frank,

I have an 800 CCA battery. I have tried
jumping another battery(1100 CCA) to the one in the car.
While this does increase amperage, it doesn't change the way the starter operates.
I'm fairly sure it has to do with a voltage drop somewhere. I hope that it isn't too
hard to find, as it could be anywhere between the ignition switch and the starter
itself.
Thanks for the input.

Bill

 

[Mark Clapp]

Bill, I'm no starter expert, but it sounds like the Bendix is not throwing out fully. Can you get another starter to try. They probably won't both be bad, so you can at least eliminate the starter if the new one doesn't work either.

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

I agree,it sounds to me like a bendix/solenoid problem,the starter is spinning up but the bendix is not engaging,the slow starter problem can also be a voltage draw across the solenoid with inaffective actuation.

 

[M.B]

Hello, !

Some old solenoids might need some greeze..

Regards,

 

[M.B]

Sorry, old type of solenoids might need some grease.

Regards

 

[Bill Bayard]

I spoke to a tech guy at Tilton, who told me that timing of the pinion/ring gear mesh
might be the problem. Apparently, the pinion begins to turn a microsecond before the Bendix pushes it into the ring gear, to enable it to find it's meshing spot. He said 100th's of an inch, in or out, can make a big difference. So, if it isn't an electrical problem, I'll have to machine the flange, moving the starter forward further into the bellhousing, a tiny bit at a time, until the mesh timing is right.
I can see this now......In with the starter,
out with the starter, machine a 100th......in with the starter, out with the starter, machine another 100th.....ad infinitum. If I am lucky, the first 100th will do the job! Hopefully it is just a matter of a loose connection. Not likely, but you never know.


Bill

 

[Guest]

Bill, not sure what you mean by reverse lock out. You do have to kind of slap the shifter to push in a detent in the internal shifter setup to get it into reverse. Sounds like you have go to the bottom of your problem though. For your and others reference, I bought my starter from Kennedy along with the adapter setup. It cost about 1/2 the Tilton and I am very happy with it so far. I have had no problem with it. Cranks my 302 just fine.