Thoughts on Keith Craft ‘Crate’ Engine

[Chris]

Keith Craft advertise a 408 stroker and I was wondering on your thoughts on the specs and pricing.

I mean obviously I’d rather go through a UK builder but it all depends on cost and it seems so much more pricy over here. I know I need to take in to consideration import duties etc but it still seems to work out cheaper than what I’ve seen. Please correct me where wrong!

I’m considering the speed master 8 stack downdraft Efi system for the intake. Which KC have experience with so will replace the intake on the aforementioned crate engine. So that should hopefully knock some price off the advertised. They will also source an older block for me for emissions etc.

Craft Performance Engines | Arkadelphia, AR | 870-246-7460 | Made in the USA!!

Craft Performance Engines Specializes in High-Performance Ford 302, 351 W, FE, 390, 427, 428, 460, Cobra and Mustang Crate Engines. Custom Engine Building and More!

www.craftperformanceengines.com

 

[H.J.Bayer]

A very interesting question!
I also have this engine in mind, but I am also wondering about the price.
What do you get for your money?

 

[Jason Lycett]

Hi Chris

Just a few thoughts, having imported and engine from Prestige Motorsports recently. Firstly the engine itself. What chassis and gearbox are you using? That much torque will blow a Renault and Audi box with spirited use so you really need a Quaiffe Box at £10K to handle it. Do you really need that sort of horsepower ? Anything more than 350-400 hp just becomes scary and unusable on a bumpy British B road with zero traction aids and 60's suspension geometry.
Secondly going for a 351W block is going to restrict your exhaust choices as most kits manufacturers and the few aftermarket people like Tony law ltd supply for a 302 block only.
The Speedmaster efi doesn't have a good reputation from a fit and finish perspective, just check up on that, Prestige motorsports talked me out of it. Also what ECU are you using to control it ? I strongly recommend using a UK supplier like Emerald / DTA / Omex etc because in my experience self learning ECU's still need mapping on a dyno and many of the US EFI kits don't have a fully mappable ECU that can be done locally in the UK. Im sure they will set it up for power. However they wont be able to do all the cold running settings and probably wont do any transition tuning, you will need to play with it. Trust me I made this mistake.

In terms of the cost that $9K cost will jump significantly with the 8 stack system added to it, a proper ECU that's mappable is $2K alone that without the sensors, harness and physical hardware. Then if you putting it into a SGT or Superformance you may need a shallow sump because the standard sump is too low. You should be ok if fitting to Tornado or GT Forte though. Again this will be another $5-600 on your price.

Then after all that, the dollar rate is pretty poor, the logistics will cost you £600, plus all the Vat and import duties charged including the transport cost, ill bet your $9K base engine will end up being around £12-13K pounds with the Speedmaster.

Personally if i was doing it again with todays exchange rate, i would talk to Real Steel, they build some nice engines at reasonable cost. A 400HP 302 based engine would be plenty.

 

[Eric B]

PM sent

E

 

[Chris]

Hi Chris

Just a few thoughts, having imported and engine from Prestige Motorsports recently. Firstly the engine itself. What chassis and gearbox are you using? That much torque will blow a Renault and Audi box with spirited use so you really need a Quaiffe Box at £10K to handle it. Do you really need that sort of horsepower ? Anything more than 350-400 hp just becomes scary and unusable on a bumpy British B road with zero traction aids and 60's suspension geometry.
Secondly going for a 351W block is going to restrict your exhaust choices as most kits manufacturers and the few aftermarket people like Tony law ltd supply for a 302 block only.
The Speedmaster efi doesn't have a good reputation from a fit and finish perspective, just check up on that, Prestige motorsports talked me out of it. Also what ECU are you using to control it ? I strongly recommend using a UK supplier like Emerald / DTA / Omex etc because in my experience self learning ECU's still need mapping on a dyno and many of the US EFI kits don't have a fully mappable ECU that can be done locally in the UK. Im sure they will set it up for power. However they wont be able to do all the cold running settings and probably wont do any transition tuning, you will need to play with it. Trust me I made this mistake.

In terms of the cost that $9K cost will jump significantly with the 8 stack system added to it, a proper ECU that's mappable is $2K alone that without the sensors, harness and physical hardware. Then if you putting it into a SGT or Superformance you may need a shallow sump because the standard sump is too low. You should be ok if fitting to Tornado or GT Forte though. Again this will be another $5-600 on your price.

Then after all that, the dollar rate is pretty poor, the logistics will cost you £600, plus all the Vat and import duties charged including the transport cost, ill bet your $9K base engine will end up being around £12-13K pounds with the Speedmaster.

Personally if i was doing it again with todays exchange rate, i would talk to Real Steel, they build some nice engines at reasonable cost. A 400HP 302 based engine would be plenty.

I had originally looked at 302 motors but if I’m correct the 363 needs an aftermarket block due to having to take the bores out. Is that correct?

I am planning to use an 01E box, the car won’t be used for drags etc. My old daily driven toy was a road driven 960hp no t/c machine with a holinger dog box so I understand the needs to look after a box and the UK roads haha. I used to have a space framed kit car that had about 450hp/tonne so was aiming to be around that number again.

I have been researching the speed master setup a lot and haven’t seen any recent reviews within a few years where people have complained about quality, but I do know there have been problems.
I have zero experience with self learning ecus, the cost for that against a stand-alone system in the UK isn’t too different from what I’ve seen.

I’ve spoken to a few UK builders including real steel (although not about a 302 based build) and prices for anything I’d call worthwhile for the same money.
Real steel are very close to where I’m based when in the UK though so it would be perfect.

as soon as I can get back to the UK sensibly I’m going to test drive a GT40 and also visit SGT and Tornado so can make an informed decision on a chassis.

 

[roaldin]

1) My 364 SBF is putting out well north of 500bhp through an Audi 6 speed, so far not a sign of an issue. Has coped fine with 6000rpm dump clutch 1st and 2nd gear starts. Maybe mine is special but I doubt it.

2) I am using the Speedmaster 8 stack on an LS1 I have in another car. Fit and finish are fine except for the mount for the throttle wheel. Fabricating a new one was not a big job. Admittedly this car has not really been tested yet but so far so good.
I think the setup looks great.
trumpets are blocked for the event.

Tim.

 

[roaldin]

To make things clearer - the Audi 6 speed is in my GT40.

Tim

 

[roaldin]

Found a better pic.

Tim.

 

[Chris]

1) My 364 SBF is putting out well north of 500bhp through an Audi 6 speed, so far not a sign of an issue. Has coped fine with 6000rpm dump clutch 1st and 2nd gear starts. Maybe mine is special but I doubt it.

2) I am using the Speedmaster 8 stack on an LS1 I have in another car. Fit and finish are fine except for the mount for the throttle wheel. Fabricating a new one was not a big job. Admittedly this car has not really been tested yet but so far so good.
I think the setup looks great.
trumpets are blocked for the event.

Tim.View attachment 106580

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the reply. What block and intake are you running on the SBF?
I have heard of the Audi boxes putting up with more stick than expected, nice to know yours has been fine.
What management are you using on the LS?

 

[roaldin]

Block is alloy Ford Motorsport,
I don’t remember the manifold and stacks sorry. I’ll go back through records tomorrow if I can find them - car was built a while ago now.
Not speedmaster though.

Tim.

 

[roaldin]

Engine management for the LS is remapped factory ECU.

Tim.

 

[roaldin]

GT40 uses Motec.

Tim.