Steve,
What transaxle are you using??
What transaxle are you using??
Waiting, waiting, waiting
- Thread starter toner
- Start date
It'll be a ZF supplied by RBT.
Apparently, mine is the first ZF install in a CAV monocoque in the US...
Apparently, mine is the first ZF install in a CAV monocoque in the US...
Steve
You car looks great! I'm coming up with an isolator for the fuel PSI gauges in my cars.
I'll post details soon.
Best
You car looks great! I'm coming up with an isolator for the fuel PSI gauges in my cars.
I'll post details soon.
Best
G
Guest
Guest
Steve,your car looks really good!!!! ,I cant believe how low the motor sits in the engine bay . One thing I didnt like about the RF40 was the motor placement in general especially the stacks up there obscuring rear vision. Your car should handle really well due to lower centre of gravity.
A big reason the engine sits so low is the ZF transaxle. I think it's a 2 inch difference between the ZF and the Getrag.
Unfortunately, the car doesn't look quite so good today. I left here on Friday morning in a freezing rain storm with the car on a U Haul trailer. About 40 miles into my 400 mile trip to Lasd Vegas, I heard and felt something funny. Looked in my mirror to see my car on the road behind me making a left turn into the center divide
The webbing that goes over the front tires had slipped off the side of the tires (I think the freezing rain and strong crosswinds which led to some tail-wagging had something to do with this) AND both safety chains somehow came unhooked, allowing the car to roll off the back of the trailer.
The good news is that this happened on a rural stretch of Interstate 15 in Utah, so there was no traffic to speak of, and the median is just a large expanse of dirt, so there was no wall for the car to run into. I can only imagine what would have happened if this occurred on, say, Highway 17 in California.
The car sustained some damage to the left front - a 3 or 4 inch split in the fender, and the blinker light plexiglass cover was shattered. The left front wheel seems to have more negative camber than the right front, so it appears to be slightly tweaked... It's all fixable though.
Some highway workers who were on their way to pick up those barrels that mark construction zones were behind me, and helped me get the car back on the trailer. One of them said he was about to honk at me because he saw the car moving on the trailer, but it came off before he could warn me.
I arrived home to about 3 inches of snow on the ground and a tree across the road, so I think my timing was just about right. Wish I'd gone Thursday instead of Friday though, as the weather was much better and I'm thinking the weather played a factor in the incident...
Unfortunately, the car doesn't look quite so good today. I left here on Friday morning in a freezing rain storm with the car on a U Haul trailer. About 40 miles into my 400 mile trip to Lasd Vegas, I heard and felt something funny. Looked in my mirror to see my car on the road behind me making a left turn into the center divide
The webbing that goes over the front tires had slipped off the side of the tires (I think the freezing rain and strong crosswinds which led to some tail-wagging had something to do with this) AND both safety chains somehow came unhooked, allowing the car to roll off the back of the trailer.
The good news is that this happened on a rural stretch of Interstate 15 in Utah, so there was no traffic to speak of, and the median is just a large expanse of dirt, so there was no wall for the car to run into. I can only imagine what would have happened if this occurred on, say, Highway 17 in California.
The car sustained some damage to the left front - a 3 or 4 inch split in the fender, and the blinker light plexiglass cover was shattered. The left front wheel seems to have more negative camber than the right front, so it appears to be slightly tweaked... It's all fixable though.
Some highway workers who were on their way to pick up those barrels that mark construction zones were behind me, and helped me get the car back on the trailer. One of them said he was about to honk at me because he saw the car moving on the trailer, but it came off before he could warn me.
I arrived home to about 3 inches of snow on the ground and a tree across the road, so I think my timing was just about right. Wish I'd gone Thursday instead of Friday though, as the weather was much better and I'm thinking the weather played a factor in the incident...
Wow, Steve, that's some bad luck. Sounds like it could've been worse, though. Good luck getting it back together.
Steve,
What damper did you use? I want to know which ATI damper is most appropriate. They only have 6 different models for the SBF with internal balance. They have either 3 or 4 bolt pulleys and 3, 3.35 or 4" "lengths". Any ideas? I assume it would be best if I selected a standard length water pump. I assume there is only one length for standard? If you have any other "things to watch" let me know.
Thanks
Gary
What damper did you use? I want to know which ATI damper is most appropriate. They only have 6 different models for the SBF with internal balance. They have either 3 or 4 bolt pulleys and 3, 3.35 or 4" "lengths". Any ideas? I assume it would be best if I selected a standard length water pump. I assume there is only one length for standard? If you have any other "things to watch" let me know.
Thanks
Gary
My engine has a stock 289 harmonic damper with a 3-bolt pattern. But the water pump is a 302 version, which is 1/4" taller than a standard 289 pump. Thus, I fabricated a custom 1/4" spacer to fit between the crankshaft pulley and the damper.
I actually ended up using a March dual-groove pulley for the crankshaft, a Ford Motorsport pulley for the water pump (is I had it to do over again, I'd just get the March pulley, as this ended up being the only pulley I used from the Ford kit), and the stock pulley on the alternator. I don't have part numbers handy for those March pulleys, but they are available from Summit Racing.
As far as which you should get, the first question I'd ask is what engine you are running, and do you need the water pump inlet on the driver's side (302 standard) or passenger side (289 standard)? Then looking at water pumps, the "fan hub working height" or distance from the timing cover to the top of the hub where the pulley mounts is 5 9/16" for a 289 pump and 5 13/16" for a 302 pump, and I don't know what for the Ford short pump. The standard 289 crankshaft pulley measures about 1 7/8" from the damper to the center of the groove. I'm not sure how these numbers relate to the numbers you mentioned...
[ November 10, 2002: Message edited by: Steve Toner ]
I actually ended up using a March dual-groove pulley for the crankshaft, a Ford Motorsport pulley for the water pump (is I had it to do over again, I'd just get the March pulley, as this ended up being the only pulley I used from the Ford kit), and the stock pulley on the alternator. I don't have part numbers handy for those March pulleys, but they are available from Summit Racing.
As far as which you should get, the first question I'd ask is what engine you are running, and do you need the water pump inlet on the driver's side (302 standard) or passenger side (289 standard)? Then looking at water pumps, the "fan hub working height" or distance from the timing cover to the top of the hub where the pulley mounts is 5 9/16" for a 289 pump and 5 13/16" for a 302 pump, and I don't know what for the Ford short pump. The standard 289 crankshaft pulley measures about 1 7/8" from the damper to the center of the groove. I'm not sure how these numbers relate to the numbers you mentioned...
[ November 10, 2002: Message edited by: Steve Toner ]
Howard Jones
Supporter
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kalun D:
""The thinking with a cockpit gauge is that if you have a fuel leak you want to know about it right away shut down, and activate your fire supression.""
correct
""As there are less sorces of ignition in the cockpit a leak at the gauge is less dangerous than one in the engine compartment.""
but you are in the cockpit, so a fire there, regardless of chances of ignition, is more hazardous than it would be in the engine compartment.
What you need is an "electronic" fuel gauge in the cockpit with a "electronic fuel pressure sensor" in the engine compartment, instead of having to run fuel into the cockpit.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
""The thinking with a cockpit gauge is that if you have a fuel leak you want to know about it right away shut down, and activate your fire supression.""
correct
""As there are less sorces of ignition in the cockpit a leak at the gauge is less dangerous than one in the engine compartment.""
but you are in the cockpit, so a fire there, regardless of chances of ignition, is more hazardous than it would be in the engine compartment.
What you need is an "electronic" fuel gauge in the cockpit with a "electronic fuel pressure sensor" in the engine compartment, instead of having to run fuel into the cockpit.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Howard Jones
Supporter
Please do not run a live fuel line into the cockpit of any car for any reason ever.You should also know SCCA and other bodys rules will not allow you on the track with it. Your engine looks cool now, how will it look with your fiberglass car melted over it. Be safe. Good luck with your car.
Howard
It turns out that fuel does not run into the cockpit in my MK-IV. There is an islolator in the engine compartment. On one side is fuel on one side is a non flamable fluid. The line that runs into the cockpit is filled with non flamable fluid. None the less I think the integrity of the fuel lines and fittings in the engine compartment is more important as that's where most ignition sources are. I am going to plug the inglessi fuel rail gauge in my Lola for that reason.
Best
It turns out that fuel does not run into the cockpit in my MK-IV. There is an islolator in the engine compartment. On one side is fuel on one side is a non flamable fluid. The line that runs into the cockpit is filled with non flamable fluid. None the less I think the integrity of the fuel lines and fittings in the engine compartment is more important as that's where most ignition sources are. I am going to plug the inglessi fuel rail gauge in my Lola for that reason.
Best
G
Guest
Guest
Interesting debate this one, so to provoke some reaction, I would suggest that for 99% of folks, this gauge business is a storm in a tea cup! The 1% being for Mk-IV with J6 and his Lola etc. However even from his last posting he seems to be in a better position than he first thought as the liquid in the tubes within the cockpit are non flammable, i.e. Ford DID think about this safety issue.
For running a gauge in the engine bay, I would not expect a problem from a decent quality gauge which has been sensibly installed. I run a Holley pressure gauge that has been on the car for years. It is not fixed on rigid pipe work but in the aeroquipe flexi-hose run to the Holley carb, which gives vibration protection. However to have a gauge in the rigid fuel rail, to me, should also not cause problems by itself. An outside cause would be required to create failure in my opinion, but what that is, I wouldn’t like to guess at as I have no personal experience of Webber set ups. However I know quite a few guys with rigid fuel rails with gauges and no problems reported. In fact I see more fuel coming out of the top of the Webber's and occasional resultant fuel fires than from gauge problems. This could start a debate about Webber's over Holley’s, but no doubt about it Webber's look the best. Holley’s easier to set up and maintain and you don’t get spit back. Power output is better with….?
To adjust my fuel pressures I use Filter Kings (am converting to ali fuel bowls instead of the glass ones). To have to refit a gauge to do this adjustment is increasing the risks in my opinion. If you have a satisfactory set up, to then take it apart and store else where means potential for new leaks to develop or damage to the gauge in the process. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! Maybe, maybe not, personal decision required here but without a gauge you can’t do casual checks on fuel pressure, so if you have become concerned over fuel pressure by this debate, are you in a better position now by having removed the gauge? Sod’s law states that you will want to check pressure when you don’t have time to do things slowly and carefully or something else is worrying you and a check is needed to eliminate the fuel from that crisis!
Back to the cockpit though….
Which replica manufacturer supplies fuel pressure gauges for the cockpit? Suggest none do?
But I would suggest that all those with space frame chassis replica’s are guilty of running fuel in a pipe through the cockpit with junctions exposed behind the dash already. Huh? How about your fuel pipes from those lovely expensive filler caps you fitted down to your tanks? And the chances are that where the fuel pipe goes through the upper sill panel you have a hole for lots of other pipes wires and cables. If you believe you are at risk from a 1/8th inch capillary pipe going to a gauge then I would suggest you also look at the other plumbing in your car. Oil gauge feeds, brake pipes, clutch pipes etc.
How about checking that electric cut out switch you have mounted in the car. They don’t often come with covers for the positive battery cable connections, which will spark if something metallic falls against them and the chassis. I would suggest you stand more chance of a cockpit fire from an electrical source than by oil, fuel or brake/clutch fluid. Unless you are in a nasty accident in which case you are up the creek sans paddle anyway.
So, I believe that for everyone with a replica, this is a storm in a tea cup, as common sense should prevail when putting together the spec on your car, but just in case my sparky comments above turn into an inferno, I will nip home and don my fire resistant overalls!
Malcolm
[ November 12, 2002: Message edited by: Malcolm M ]
For running a gauge in the engine bay, I would not expect a problem from a decent quality gauge which has been sensibly installed. I run a Holley pressure gauge that has been on the car for years. It is not fixed on rigid pipe work but in the aeroquipe flexi-hose run to the Holley carb, which gives vibration protection. However to have a gauge in the rigid fuel rail, to me, should also not cause problems by itself. An outside cause would be required to create failure in my opinion, but what that is, I wouldn’t like to guess at as I have no personal experience of Webber set ups. However I know quite a few guys with rigid fuel rails with gauges and no problems reported. In fact I see more fuel coming out of the top of the Webber's and occasional resultant fuel fires than from gauge problems. This could start a debate about Webber's over Holley’s, but no doubt about it Webber's look the best. Holley’s easier to set up and maintain and you don’t get spit back. Power output is better with….?
To adjust my fuel pressures I use Filter Kings (am converting to ali fuel bowls instead of the glass ones). To have to refit a gauge to do this adjustment is increasing the risks in my opinion. If you have a satisfactory set up, to then take it apart and store else where means potential for new leaks to develop or damage to the gauge in the process. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! Maybe, maybe not, personal decision required here but without a gauge you can’t do casual checks on fuel pressure, so if you have become concerned over fuel pressure by this debate, are you in a better position now by having removed the gauge? Sod’s law states that you will want to check pressure when you don’t have time to do things slowly and carefully or something else is worrying you and a check is needed to eliminate the fuel from that crisis!
Back to the cockpit though….
Which replica manufacturer supplies fuel pressure gauges for the cockpit? Suggest none do?
But I would suggest that all those with space frame chassis replica’s are guilty of running fuel in a pipe through the cockpit with junctions exposed behind the dash already. Huh? How about your fuel pipes from those lovely expensive filler caps you fitted down to your tanks? And the chances are that where the fuel pipe goes through the upper sill panel you have a hole for lots of other pipes wires and cables. If you believe you are at risk from a 1/8th inch capillary pipe going to a gauge then I would suggest you also look at the other plumbing in your car. Oil gauge feeds, brake pipes, clutch pipes etc.
How about checking that electric cut out switch you have mounted in the car. They don’t often come with covers for the positive battery cable connections, which will spark if something metallic falls against them and the chassis. I would suggest you stand more chance of a cockpit fire from an electrical source than by oil, fuel or brake/clutch fluid. Unless you are in a nasty accident in which case you are up the creek sans paddle anyway.
So, I believe that for everyone with a replica, this is a storm in a tea cup, as common sense should prevail when putting together the spec on your car, but just in case my sparky comments above turn into an inferno, I will nip home and don my fire resistant overalls!
Malcolm
[ November 12, 2002: Message edited by: Malcolm M ]
G
Guest
Guest
Oh, and what if my car is involved in a big one? I have a sensor bolted to the chassis that if a G reading of over 10 G is recorded it automatically cuts the fuel pump electrics so fuel won't continue to be pumped. This part came from the Jaguar parts bin and should not be expensive. Very easy and simple to fit.
Only ever triggered once when I spun off at Bovington and although I didn't hit anything (thank goodness!) the terrain was rough enough to give a moment of 10 G plus to trigger sensor. Only found out when car ran out of fuel seconds later! Reset trip switch and away you go.
Malcolm
Only ever triggered once when I spun off at Bovington and although I didn't hit anything (thank goodness!) the terrain was rough enough to give a moment of 10 G plus to trigger sensor. Only found out when car ran out of fuel seconds later! Reset trip switch and away you go.
Malcolm
Malcolm
Interesting post. The fuel system in J6 is very robust. As far as PSI gauges on the Lola fuel rail go you are probably right. They have been used for years and I've used them without incident on the motors in my boat which is a much harsher enviroment. Making sure your fuel inlet is grounded is a good idea.
Best
Interesting post. The fuel system in J6 is very robust. As far as PSI gauges on the Lola fuel rail go you are probably right. They have been used for years and I've used them without incident on the motors in my boat which is a much harsher enviroment. Making sure your fuel inlet is grounded is a good idea.
Best
Took fuel PSI gauge apart. There is no isolator! Fuel runs to the dash. Am figuring out islator. Rest of winter service teardown is fine a little tightening,inspecting,changing of fluids,surfacing the disks and J6 will be ready for the spring.
Best
Jim
Best
Jim
A couple of shots of my car in Las Vegas, after it got the mud washed off.
This one shows the damage from when it came off the trailer on the freeway:
And a shot where you can hardly see the damage:
Since the car has to go into the shop anyway to repair the damage, I'm going to get the stripes put on that for whatever reason didn't get put on at the factory.
btw, the color is Wimbledon White, or at least it's CAV's interpretation of same. I don't remember my 65 Mustang having quite so much color to it, but I may just be remembering wrong.
The outside mirrors are reproduction Rotunda "bullet" mirrors, aka "Shelby mirrors" and did not come with the car.
This one shows the damage from when it came off the trailer on the freeway:
And a shot where you can hardly see the damage:
Since the car has to go into the shop anyway to repair the damage, I'm going to get the stripes put on that for whatever reason didn't get put on at the factory.
btw, the color is Wimbledon White, or at least it's CAV's interpretation of same. I don't remember my 65 Mustang having quite so much color to it, but I may just be remembering wrong.
The outside mirrors are reproduction Rotunda "bullet" mirrors, aka "Shelby mirrors" and did not come with the car.
G
Guest
Guest
Jim
Is it time to say, the gauge has worked without fault since 1967 and by checking its integretiy on a regular basis (plus the fuel lines etc), there is no need to change the status quo?
In Motorsport magazine this month is a full page ad for a model MkIV. Is this based on your car?
To Steve,
I see you have a slight tear in the body over the wheel arch from the photos. To me it looks as though your car got a "healthy" impact on the body on this corner. Fibre glass is prone to getting hairline cracks that if not treated properly will re-appear over time spoiling the paintwork. Frank's guy Aaron did my bodywork after my Wiscombe off and although I don't know the exact process used, the aim was to try and stop these recurring hairline cracks. Be fussy over the body repairs and prep work to save this "moment" coming back to haunt you.
Malcolm
[ November 15, 2002: Message edited by: Malcolm M ]
Is it time to say, the gauge has worked without fault since 1967 and by checking its integretiy on a regular basis (plus the fuel lines etc), there is no need to change the status quo?
In Motorsport magazine this month is a full page ad for a model MkIV. Is this based on your car?
To Steve,
I see you have a slight tear in the body over the wheel arch from the photos. To me it looks as though your car got a "healthy" impact on the body on this corner. Fibre glass is prone to getting hairline cracks that if not treated properly will re-appear over time spoiling the paintwork. Frank's guy Aaron did my bodywork after my Wiscombe off and although I don't know the exact process used, the aim was to try and stop these recurring hairline cracks. Be fussy over the body repairs and prep work to save this "moment" coming back to haunt you.
Malcolm
[ November 15, 2002: Message edited by: Malcolm M ]
The Mark IV Ford GT should be the safest of all the Ford GTs. I was looking at a borrowed copy of the Shelby Ford GT book and there were pictures of crash testing the Mark IV at the Ford Proving Grounds. Malcolm, you make a lot of good points about routing of fuel and electrical components. It gives a lot to think about. It is a good point that if something has a good safety record that it should continue to be safe. But also remember that old stuff has a way of failing just due to its age. Malcolm your wisdom and insight will help a lot of people who are in the building stages on their cars. Maybe we should make this discussion on safety a seperate topic.
Hi
The tub that was crash tested wasn't a MK-IV.
The crash test did show weakness in the fuel system which ruptured. Andretti did crash a MK-IV into a wall at LeMans at about 145MPH without seriously hurting himself. Thanks to this thread I am fitting Autometer isolators into my MK-IV and P4. Do you think the Concours judges will deduct points?
Merely Fooling...
The tub that was crash tested wasn't a MK-IV.
The crash test did show weakness in the fuel system which ruptured. Andretti did crash a MK-IV into a wall at LeMans at about 145MPH without seriously hurting himself. Thanks to this thread I am fitting Autometer isolators into my MK-IV and P4. Do you think the Concours judges will deduct points?
Merely Fooling...
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