Waiting, waiting, waiting

[Ron Earp]

Yep, watch those gauges.

They look cool but don't do squat once the engine is tuned. And Frank and Lynn are right, people rip you off on the gauges cause they are "high pressure". High, as in 35-50 psi like mose EFI runs, high like what is in your bicycle tires. I wouldn't run a cockpit gauge that piped gas into the gauge, that is for damn sure. Ditto oil pressure, senders are available everywhere and cheap.

I had a EFI gauge break on me, I also thought it looked cool. Wasn't so cool when fuel soaked the hood pad, top of the engine, and luckily did not start a fire. Only way I knew is on the pass I suddenly smelled lots of gas. Watch that smoking in the car.

Ron

 

[Jim Glickenhaus]

Steve
Please post what Inglese says as the gauge in my Lola is one of theirs.

Frank
Your idea to plug after tuning is a good one.
I agree about fuel in the cockpit but this is how Ford did it in the MK-IV and this system survived Andretti hitting a wall at 145mph at LeMans. I'm going to discuss this with Lee Holman. As for Ferrari they really wern't too concerned with the driver's safety in 1967. The P4 didn't have seat belts or instrument lights! The guys who drove they at night in the rain had big ones.
The chassis are very delicate as well. What are your thoughts? I may modify these psi gauges to remove the fuel lines in the cockpits. Do you know if the MKII's had fuel in the cockpit as well?

Lynn
Do you know of someone who makes fuel PSI gauges that solve this problem and look period correct?
Best
Jim

 

[Frank Catt]

Consider this. Whats your first thought going to be if you see a fire in your car? Is it self preservation? Is it to save the car at all costs? Is it, as happened to me, how do I even get to a position where I can get out of the car, you cannot just jump out at speed! In all things, originality and show off values mean little in such circumstances. Be safe, its the most important thing!Frank

 

[Steve Toner]

Here is what Inglese has to say about the gauge:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> I believe this problem was caused by fuel pressure. The fact the face of the gauge was blown off tells me that. Three PSI would not blow the lens if the gauge had sprung a leak and the face was intact that would be another story. If this is a concern for you there would not be a problem removing the gauge after setting, other than the convenience of reading the pressure at
different times.

We have been using the same gauge since the mid 70's without incident?
There are also available liquid filled gauges which if we where having a problem we would certainly be using them.

Thanks for your interest
Dan at INGLESE <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[Jim Glickenhaus]

Steve
Thanks for the post. I looked at the gauge in my MK-IV. It and the fittings are aircraft mill spec. The thinking with a cockpit gauge is that if you have a fuel leak you want to know about it right away shut down, and activate your fire supression.
As there are less sorces of ignition in the cockpit a leak at the gauge is less dangerous than one in the engine compartment.
Best

 

[Frank Catt]

Steve, what Pressure do Inglese recommend you run your IDFs at? Be aware that we suffered a lot from both fuel stand off and bore fuel wash with IDFs, running at 4.5 psi. There are several reasons we now longer use IDFs on track, including the above, and we also developed several ideas that improved things until they were replaced. Frank

 

[Steve Toner]

They say 3 lbs. min.; 5 lbs. maximum

I imagine most of their systems are installed in street rods, though I have certainly seen them on race cars. The race cars do tend to have the IDAs... I may feel the need to upgrade to IDAs myself at some point in the future.

Meanwhile, the lockout of dock workers continues on the west coast, so even if (when) my car clears customs I'm still going to have to wait for a resolution to that mess.

 

[andys]

Steve,

After my previous post regarding this thread, I got to thinking that the only problems I've ever really encountered with overseas shipments were here in the US. Some US freight companies can be a nightmare to deal with. Oh, and then along comes a dockworkers strike! I actually though of you when seeing that cargo ship full of yet to be unloaded containers smoldering from a fire (surprise? yeah, right!). Good luck.

Andy

 

Military Air spec doesn't allow fuel in the cockpit. You shouldn't either. (I guess there isn't a handy place to pull over and jump out of the plane) For safety's sake take Frank's advice!

 

[Jim Glickenhaus]

I just got off the phone with Lee Holman who made several points. All of the MK-IV's, J Cars , and MK-II's have mechanical Fuel PSI and Mechanical Oil Psi gauges in the cockpits. He also said he's never had or heard of a Fuel PSI gauge leaking but has had Oil gauges leak, which is no treat in the cockpit either. They reason that the Fuel PSI is mechanical is that at the low PSI that the carbs operate electrical ones aren't accurate enough. He said the gauge isn't the only fuel in the cockpit. Fuel cell access, equalizing lines, fills, vents. etc. are a worry as well.. "If you smell gas shut down!" He felt the Fuel gauge was necessary as if it dropped suddenly there was a good chance you were spraying fuel onto your headers and needed immediate action.
I am going to keep my fire system armed, my eye on the gauge, and my finger near the trigger

 

[Guest]

""The thinking with a cockpit gauge is that if you have a fuel leak you want to know about it right away shut down, and activate your fire supression.""

correct

""As there are less sorces of ignition in the cockpit a leak at the gauge is less dangerous than one in the engine compartment.""

but you are in the cockpit, so a fire there, regardless of chances of ignition, is more hazardous than it would be in the engine compartment.

What you need is an "electronic" fuel gauge in the cockpit with a "electronic fuel pressure sensor" in the engine compartment, instead of having to run fuel into the cockpit.

 

[Neal]

Most mechanical gauges use Bourdon tube technology. This is essentially a tube that expands and contracts with applied pressure. They do wear over time and are subject to failure. The original technology was invented in the 1840s!

I would suggest an isolator if you plan on running any fluids into the cockpit. Most manufacturers offer them.

 

[Jim Glickenhaus]

My car may have an isolator I'm going to check it out. Do you have a source for isolators?

 

[Gary Gibbs]

Autometer for one makes them. You fill the downstream side with antifreeze and remove ALL of the air. There is a diaphram in the isolator which transfers the pressure from the gas to the antifreeze.

Gary

 

[Jim Glickenhaus]

It looks like there is an isolater in the MK-IV PSI system. I'm having it checked to make sure that the cockpit line is filled with non flamible liquid. Thanks Frank and others for your comments. I'll also make sure the P4 gauge is isloated.
Best

[ October 04, 2002: Message edited by: MK -IV J6 ]

 

[Steve Toner]

Well, folks, I'm going to Vegas because I feel lucky.

But mostly because my car is supposed to arrive there by noon tomorrow. Yes, it finally made it through the maze of customs and dockworker lockout problems and I don't know what-all...

 

[Jim Glickenhaus]

I hope you have some zr rated snows!
Best

 

[David]

Steve.

A while back, somebody asked you about setup; Dan usually puts a copy of a "Build Sheet" om the white envelope. It will have all the jet sizes, etc and etc on it. If you don't have it, e-mail Dan and have him send you a copy. If anybody ever has to do any adjusting, it is nice to know where they are starting without having to remove all the jets, etc and reading the very small markings.

Dave Lowell

[ October 13, 2002: Message edited by: Dave Lowell ]

 

[Steve Toner]

1:22AM local time... Back from Vegas... I have a car

Bob Lacey personally foought off sea monsters, customs agents, dockworkers, and probably the highway patrol and hauled the car out from San Diego to Las Vegas himself so I could pick it up today... Errr, make that yesterday.

I have a good 2 weeks before the snow comes, I think.

More later. Gotta sleep.

 

[Steve Toner]

Well, I've been frantically working on my car (i.e., a couple of hours each night after I get home from work & on weekends) since I got it home trying to beat the snow. Alas, I am out of time. The first winter storm is coming through this weekend, so the car has to get down off the mountain. The gearbox has not arrived so there's no way I can get it done. So Friday I will tow it back down to Las Vegas and let the dealer there (Finish Line Motorsports) finish the install (the alternative would be for it to sit in storage all winter and I'd finish it in the spring - can't wait that long

). Don't have any pictures of the whole car yet, as it's in my garage and things are a little tight for full-length portraits, but here's a shot of the completed engine:

and the engine bolted in the car for the trip:

[ November 07, 2002: Message edited by: Steve Toner ]