Which flywheel?
- Thread starter Bill D
- Start date
Lynn Larsen
Lynn Larsen
Bill,
If you use the Kennedy kit, they provide a very nice flywheel. In essence, it is a Porsche sized flywheel with the Ford bolt pattern. There is no ring gear on the flywheel since the ring gear is attached to the clutch cover. The one dimension that I cannot comment on is thickness; I have no idea how this determined, but I suspect this dimension is not standard to either Porsche or Ford and has more to do with the pilot bearing and locating the starter ring gear just mentioned, as well as, the engagement splines on the clutch disc.
Kennedy can provide the flywheel in either 28oz or 50oz imbalance to suite the early and late model stock Ford setups or they can provide an internally balanced unit. Surprisingly, the internally balanced flywheel is cheaper; although logic would say that this is as it should be since it actually takes less time and material to produce, many vendors will charge a premium for a non-standard configuration.
Regards,
Lynn
If you use the Kennedy kit, they provide a very nice flywheel. In essence, it is a Porsche sized flywheel with the Ford bolt pattern. There is no ring gear on the flywheel since the ring gear is attached to the clutch cover. The one dimension that I cannot comment on is thickness; I have no idea how this determined, but I suspect this dimension is not standard to either Porsche or Ford and has more to do with the pilot bearing and locating the starter ring gear just mentioned, as well as, the engagement splines on the clutch disc.
Kennedy can provide the flywheel in either 28oz or 50oz imbalance to suite the early and late model stock Ford setups or they can provide an internally balanced unit. Surprisingly, the internally balanced flywheel is cheaper; although logic would say that this is as it should be since it actually takes less time and material to produce, many vendors will charge a premium for a non-standard configuration.
Regards,
Lynn
Tim Kay
Lifetime Supporter
Depends on how much you want to $ /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
I think the least expensive way to go is to use the Kennedy clutch and pressure plate with ring gear package. (Keep in mind the ring gear has to sit away from the motor atop the pressure plate in order for the starter gear to reach).
On the other hand, Tilton makes a nice pressure plate\clutch with a custom flywheel and concentric slave cylinder. Approximately 8 week delivery, I have one arriving this week and will post pics a soon as it gets here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I think the least expensive way to go is to use the Kennedy clutch and pressure plate with ring gear package. (Keep in mind the ring gear has to sit away from the motor atop the pressure plate in order for the starter gear to reach).
On the other hand, Tilton makes a nice pressure plate\clutch with a custom flywheel and concentric slave cylinder. Approximately 8 week delivery, I have one arriving this week and will post pics a soon as it gets here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Kennedy Eng makes the Ford to Porsche inverted plate and comes with flywheel, pilot bearing and hardware - $620.00 and is 4-5 weeks from time of order. They also have clutch kits if needed. 661-272-1147
Chris
Chris
Lynn Larsen
Lynn Larsen
Tim,
Please, tell me more about the concentric slave cylinder? I have not yet machined a bleed port on the top of my slave cylinder and it is a major PITA to take it down, bleed it and then reinstall. Not to mention that the end of the bleeder is mere mm's away from a chassis member that acts as the transaxle mount hard point. I am very concerned that the bleeder is going to be broken off with high torque loading someday.
Regards,
Lynn
Please, tell me more about the concentric slave cylinder? I have not yet machined a bleed port on the top of my slave cylinder and it is a major PITA to take it down, bleed it and then reinstall. Not to mention that the end of the bleeder is mere mm's away from a chassis member that acts as the transaxle mount hard point. I am very concerned that the bleeder is going to be broken off with high torque loading someday.
Regards,
Lynn
Ross Nicol
GT40s Supporter
Hi Tim,Lynn etc I have a McCleod Internal release bearing similar to the Tilton in your pic Tim and it works well.The reason you have to restrict the pedal is, pedal pressure beyond that required for clutch release will blow the 'O' rings and I have heard of this happening.I set my car on a gentle slope, in gear and pushed the clutch slowly till the car started to roll.Then set the stop on the pedal to restrict travel.
Why stop at a twin plate Tim you might as well have gone triple.Guess what came with the new motor I bought, yep triple Tilton.
Regards Ross
Why stop at a twin plate Tim you might as well have gone triple.Guess what came with the new motor I bought, yep triple Tilton.
Regards Ross
Tim Kay
Lifetime Supporter
Ross,
I'm taking special notes from you. Seems everything I'm heading into, "you've been there - done that" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif The reason this forum is so valuable /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
If I remember correctly, didn't you remove the 3 disc for reason it was a little harsh? Actually, we attempted the 3 disk but wouldn't fit. I think due to the shorten case and input shaft of 25mm. I'm hoping the carbon\carbon disk is smooth like they say. I will note the release bearing and clutch travel set up mentioned above and apply it when I do my set up. Likely to be within 2 months /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I'm taking special notes from you. Seems everything I'm heading into, "you've been there - done that" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif The reason this forum is so valuable /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
If I remember correctly, didn't you remove the 3 disc for reason it was a little harsh? Actually, we attempted the 3 disk but wouldn't fit. I think due to the shorten case and input shaft of 25mm. I'm hoping the carbon\carbon disk is smooth like they say. I will note the release bearing and clutch travel set up mentioned above and apply it when I do my set up. Likely to be within 2 months /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Ross Nicol
GT40s Supporter
Tim
No I am still using the single plate Mcleod flywheel,clutch single plate, but I have changed from organic lining(which slipped like heck) to scintered Iron lining.Grips well off the line and slips enough for gradual hookup with about 3-4000 revs on.How it will go with more hp is another thing though.This clutch is not good on the street either.I think my Mcleod thrust bearing is a lot shorter than the Tilton and may work for you in your tight space.I'm concerned the triple plate may not fit in mine, if I have to give it a go.Have had some fun with Gtech in the roadcar, found it easier to generate 'G' forces during braking than accelerating on wet road.
Regards Ross
No I am still using the single plate Mcleod flywheel,clutch single plate, but I have changed from organic lining(which slipped like heck) to scintered Iron lining.Grips well off the line and slips enough for gradual hookup with about 3-4000 revs on.How it will go with more hp is another thing though.This clutch is not good on the street either.I think my Mcleod thrust bearing is a lot shorter than the Tilton and may work for you in your tight space.I'm concerned the triple plate may not fit in mine, if I have to give it a go.Have had some fun with Gtech in the roadcar, found it easier to generate 'G' forces during braking than accelerating on wet road.
Regards Ross
Lynn Larsen
Lynn Larsen
Tim,
I may have just discovered something that I had overlooked when I got the Centerforce/Patrick Motorsports clutch from Mike that wouldn't work with his G50/52. The Porsche clutch and, therefore, the throwout bearing and actuator mechanism are designed for PULL operation, not PUSH. The Tilton and similar hydaulic units are PUSH type actuators, and I am now wondering if the Centerforce isn't a PUSH clutch as well. What I am not sure about is how one modifies the Porsche mechanism (throwout bearing, fork arm, etc.) to work with this clutch. That is other than using a hydraulic like the Tilton.
When using the Tilton is the inner face of the Porsche bell housing the stop? If so, is some sort of spacer used? Or, is there some other way that unit is held rigidly so that it can exert force on the clutch fingers??
Regards,
Lynn
I may have just discovered something that I had overlooked when I got the Centerforce/Patrick Motorsports clutch from Mike that wouldn't work with his G50/52. The Porsche clutch and, therefore, the throwout bearing and actuator mechanism are designed for PULL operation, not PUSH. The Tilton and similar hydaulic units are PUSH type actuators, and I am now wondering if the Centerforce isn't a PUSH clutch as well. What I am not sure about is how one modifies the Porsche mechanism (throwout bearing, fork arm, etc.) to work with this clutch. That is other than using a hydraulic like the Tilton.
When using the Tilton is the inner face of the Porsche bell housing the stop? If so, is some sort of spacer used? Or, is there some other way that unit is held rigidly so that it can exert force on the clutch fingers??
Regards,
Lynn
Tim Kay
Lifetime Supporter
Hey Lynn,
When I decided to go with Tilton I sent my trans to them and told them to "set it up with what is needed". I will be getting it this week and can give you some more details.
Included in the Tilton 'package' is a 'release bearing adapter' which may be what your question was referring to.
Also, I vaguely remember that I was told if using the Porsche throwout bearing and fork that there is a conversion from pull to push. Not sure but Bobby Hart @ CMS could surely fill you in /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
When I decided to go with Tilton I sent my trans to them and told them to "set it up with what is needed". I will be getting it this week and can give you some more details.
Included in the Tilton 'package' is a 'release bearing adapter' which may be what your question was referring to.
Also, I vaguely remember that I was told if using the Porsche throwout bearing and fork that there is a conversion from pull to push. Not sure but Bobby Hart @ CMS could surely fill you in /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Lynn Larsen
Lynn Larsen
Tim,
Thanks, I have confirmed with Mike that this clutch remains a "Pull" type. Having studied the Tilton hydraulic release, I am quite sure that it replaces the release bearing guide tube that surrounds the input shaft and that the adapter is likely to match up the the mounting screw taps in the transaxle to the ears on the throwout bearing.
Bottom line, I am less "excited" than I was last night
Above all, Tilton makes outstanding stuff and I am sure you will be VERY happy with your setup. Send me some pics when you get it; I'd be greatful to see their solution. That said, I am a little surprised about the need for a clutch lever limiter to prevent the throwout from over extending out of its cylinder, but I am sure it has to do with the thrust bearing (and the space it would require) needed to provide an internal limit and keep the package small enough to fit.
I was very impressed by my conversation with Bobby. I am still mulling over the side shifter adapter he makes. It makes very good sense. But, I contacted the Porsche racer who I bought the G50/50 from and he said that the transaxle is "race ready." This makes sense, in that, it was his racing spare and would have had to be ready to go. For the time being, I am looking at making the mechanism that converts the two cable's actions a bit more elegant. Right now, it is pretty unsophisticated and has a lot of room for improvement. If I wasn't so confident in the tranny's situation, it'd already be on it's way to CMS.
Regards,
Lynn
Thanks, I have confirmed with Mike that this clutch remains a "Pull" type. Having studied the Tilton hydraulic release, I am quite sure that it replaces the release bearing guide tube that surrounds the input shaft and that the adapter is likely to match up the the mounting screw taps in the transaxle to the ears on the throwout bearing.
Bottom line, I am less "excited" than I was last night
Above all, Tilton makes outstanding stuff and I am sure you will be VERY happy with your setup. Send me some pics when you get it; I'd be greatful to see their solution. That said, I am a little surprised about the need for a clutch lever limiter to prevent the throwout from over extending out of its cylinder, but I am sure it has to do with the thrust bearing (and the space it would require) needed to provide an internal limit and keep the package small enough to fit. I was very impressed by my conversation with Bobby. I am still mulling over the side shifter adapter he makes. It makes very good sense. But, I contacted the Porsche racer who I bought the G50/50 from and he said that the transaxle is "race ready." This makes sense, in that, it was his racing spare and would have had to be ready to go. For the time being, I am looking at making the mechanism that converts the two cable's actions a bit more elegant. Right now, it is pretty unsophisticated and has a lot of room for improvement. If I wasn't so confident in the tranny's situation, it'd already be on it's way to CMS.
Regards,
Lynn
