Worthy Stablemates

[Brian]

After my 40 is done this summer and I clean up the garage, install a 4 post lift, and I pay off a few bills:-( .........I intend to begin a search for a worthy stablemate for the '40. I've got several cars in the running now and I thought I'd toss out some ideas to get a few comments from some fellow gearheads......

So in no particular order I am considering

Pantera "L" model, (my fav right now) I love the design, you can buy them reasonable and parts are affordable. I think a good quality unmolested Pantera will increase in value over time.

Ferrari 328, again love the styling, but the comfort zone in an uknown, when I go to shows and ask about long range comfort, everyone says I don't know becasuse I have never driven it more that 100 miles at a time??? I would expect the servicing to be done by the local gearheads, not the dealerships. Again, a nice unmolested car will hold value over time

NSX, nice car no doubt. Does not ring for me, but it's not out of the running yet. Have not been watching values on these, but when we have the exotic car show up here there are a ton of them all modded out with blowers and bling. Alas, I'm not 20 anymore.

Porsche 993, mmmmmmmmmm my 2nd fav after the Pantera, lots of grass roots Porsche guys around here to bond with, would be an instant club member, (I kind of am now as a bunch of them have secret GT-40 fetishes but won't admit to it in public.) Huge network to support the mechanical aspects.

BMW M-1, REALLY like these cars, kind of retro looking, tube chassis, glass body, honking straight 6 with a ZF, alas, I am too late as they have gone the investor route and the prices have gone to neptune..Unless I find one that a little old lady has in her garage.


Lotus twin Turbos have recently caught my eye, but I have not poked at them much. Don't see many around, which increases the appeal.



If anyone has any of these cars above and would like to comment on ownership and quircks, I'd love to hear about it.

Brian

 

[Ron Earp]

Lotus twin Turbos have recently caught my eye, but I have not poked at them much. Don't see many around, which increases the appeal.

Brian

I can't help you with the V8 specifically, but I can help you with Esprits as I spent a couple of years in ownership and a lot of time on the Esprit boards. If you like the shape of the V8 specifically, I feel you'd be better off with a 94 S4 or a 95 S4s - the turbo four pots since those two have essentially the same styling. You can get more power out of the motor reliably, for less money, and have a quite enjoyable car that is easy on the wallet to own. If you don't have to have that particular shape then you could get a 90-93 SE for far less money than the S4, S4s, or V8 and have the same car under the skin with only slightly variations in skirt, air dam, deck lid, etc. You'll have plently of power, I got 337 rear wheel hp out of mine with about $2000 spent, and that bested most of the V8s on the Lotus boards. If you blow the motor my JH engine man can do a rebuild for about $4k, far less than anything that can be done to the V8.

The twin turbo V8 has a number of "issues" that can be expensive to deal with and details can be found on the Esprit forum or Pistonheads. In short, besides the inherient problems in design, one big issue with them is that for a performance base they have no intercooling. Boost is limited to about 7psi and can be increased precious little before detonation becomes a problem. Intercoolers need to be a air/liquid variety due to the mid-engine location and adding them with the space provided on the V8 install is no mean feat. There are parts available to do it, but they are very expensive.

The cars need a fair amount of suspension upgrades to be "fun" on track. They have, IMHO, a henious amount of understeer built into the chassis although that was somewhat corrected with the S4s and later cars, but not enough, again IMHO. It is fixable though. Think GT car, not "sports car".

They are fun cars to own I think and reliable - at least mine was. The Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious wasn't the case with my 90SE. My racing buddy Jeff had a 93SE that was the same - very reliable and a fun car to drive and own. It is now owned by a forum member. I worked on both cars a lot, made performance modifications to both of them (maintenence, turbo upgrade on mine, burning chips, fabbing exhausts), and they can be a hoot to drive.

Brakes on the S4s and V8 models are much better than earlier versions. If track work is a planned activity the earlier models will need brake upgrades because like many SuperCars, the parts are pulled from production cars. In this case Toyotas. In fact, you'll find that theme throughout the Esprits, V8s or four pots alike. Lots, and lots, and lots of parts bin engineering. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it is how the Lotus's were assembled. Still, fun cars!

However - I owned my Esprit at the same time as I had my Lightning and BMW M3 E36. For commuting, driving, and especially for track work the M3 was the better car although it wasn't nearly as sexy. The Lighting still stomped all of them on the drag strip though, and tows better.

R

 

[CliffBeer]

Brian, interesting collection of possibles you have in mind - very similar to what I'd be considering too if I had another garage spot open! Ditto on Ron's comments on the Lotus - I had an S4S for some years and it's a wonderful car with just as much poke as the V8 (with a few very minor mods) for less money. Excellent road handling and quite adustable to suit your taste.

Re: 328, that's a really nice car too and, interestingly, quite comfortable to drive long distances at speed. I might suggest you look at a later (post '86) mondial coupe or drop head as these have all the same mechanicals as the 328 but with 12 inches longer wheelbase - makes for a very stable car at high speed. My '88 mondial cab is great - drives well, is comfortable for long distances, and I can take the wife and kiddies to dinner with the top down in summer - that's fun! Ferrarichat.com is a good community too - it's mostly good ole' gearheads like gt40s.com rather than the concours and wine/cheese crowd.

Re: 993, I have a '83 911 cab and a 2001 996 currently - I did drive a 993 for some time a few years back. Super evolved design with great ergonomics and easy-as-pie handling. Non of the dreaded 911 tail happy handling of earlier models (like my '83). 993 engines can be prone to premature valve guide wear to be sure to look for excessive smoke on cold start up and hard acceleration. Other than that, bullet-proof engine with reasonable maintenance. Performance is mild - 3.4 litre engine with twin plugs puts out about 265hp.

Hope this helps!

 

[Gary Kadrmas]

Brian,

Head on over to e-Bay. Has a few NICE Panteras listed as we speak.

Gary Kadrmas

 

[John W]

Cliff, that should be a 3.6 in a 993...

I have a 993 C2 and would agree with Cliffs sentiments. They are a cracking every day sports car, with none of the perceived fragility, or high service costs of a Ferrari.
Handling is great as standard, but if you want a real track focused car, a set of PSS9 suspension, front strut brace, and maybe an upgrade to 'big red' brakes is all it takes.
The earlier 993s put out 265bhp. Post 96 cars have a different intake sytstem called 'vario-ram', which is a variable tract length manifold, and increased bhps up to 285, but with stronger torque too.
The valve guides do wear, but its not generally an issue unless the car is a high miler, or not been regularly serviced.
They all seem to suffer problems with their dual mass flywheel, which can make them a bit clunky in traffic. Don't be tempted to fit a single mass job though, as this makes them almost undriveable at low revs in treaffic, often stalling.
Oh, one thing that really is worth doing is to upgrade the headlights with some HID zenon low beam kits, as the projector lights are not that special.

If you want a good porsche web site, have a look at rennlist.com, and for some great general information on 993s try p-car.com.

 

[Brian]

Interesting comments guys, thanks for the observations, somewhere along the line I should have mentioned that this stablemate to the '40 will not see any track use, just a day-tripper that the wife may get behind the wheel of every now and then. More like something we'll throw light luggage in and head up the coast of Maine or to the mountains of Vermont.

But the big reds would have to be on the 993, just because...well just becasue some of the guys at work have them and I'd want them too

mmmmmmmmmm not many Pantera fans.......

Brian

 

[CliffBeer]

Brian, I would guess that for that kind of driving the 993 would be tough to beat. I'd be surprised if your wife would like driving the 328 - heavy steering and somewhat difficult (traditional italian) seating position. The 993 comes in a tiptronic too making it about as easy to drive as a cadillac. The ferrari mondial T ('89 - 92) comes with power steering and an auto box was also available so this is a pretty easy car to drive too. Probably best to go drive a bunch of these cars and get a feel for each - should be fun!

 

[Steve Briscoe]

A Pantera provides loads of opportunity to do the work yourself. Every imaginable problem or upgrade has been covered and recovered on the Pantera forums where you can get lots of instruction. However, watch out for rust. The cars were notorious for that but in all fairness, what early 70s era car wasn't? There are some good California or Arizona cars out there so find one of those if you go the Pantera route.

 

[BenL]

Instead of a Lotus Esprit, how about a Lotus Elise?

How about going for something that is very different from the GT40?