ZF bellhousing and flywheel/clutch options

[William PRO-V8]

Hello everybody
i need some help about the ZF bellhousing.

Just removed engine and trans (5.0L-302w and ZF 5DS25-2), from my GTD

The flywheel / clutch arrangement seems a litle bit strange….

• the flywheel is a small 120tooth , that has been re-drilled to fit the Ford Windsor crank and got a big counterweight (don’t know if it’s ok for the 50oz 5.0L) , that I canno’t identify
• clutch disc is a AP 240mm
• clutch pressure plate, unknown
• an unknown small starter has been fitted with a homemade adapter plate

the ZF belhousing has some venting on top and is a closed circle on bottom, that does not allowed for a bigger and more common 157teeth flywheel

I’m building a 302-347 (to replace the old marine 302), and while my 347 is actually 28oz balanced (but I can have it rebalanced), I would like to use a 157teeth flywheel, with 10,5” clutch kit

can i cut some area of the bottom of the flywheel ?
or
who sell some ZF bellhousing that allowed to use a more standard flywheel ?

 

[Graham Endeacott]

Without seeing this installed in your GTD, it's difficult to be sure how a bigger flywheel and bellhousing will affect things. The smaller flywheel and bellhousing already fitted will allow your engine to sit lower in the chassis. Depending on how it sits now, if you move to a bigger flywheel, you might have the bellhousing hanging out below the chassis.

If your current flywheel can be saved, I would stick with what you have.

It also looks like your current bellhousing is of the "quick-release" type; as you can access those inner bolts via the slots at the top of the bellhousing it means that you can remove the ZF without having to split the bellhousing from the engine, an operation that usually requires the engine to be lifted out. That's another major plus point.

Regards,


Graham.

 

[William PRO-V8]

hi Graham,
it seems that the rear chassis is a southern GT
but the oil pan is lower than the bellhousing
the old small flywheel, does not look good or strong, and the 240mm clutch with the unknown pressure plate, may not hold the power of my newly built 347 (full forged rotating, TSF11r190 heads, roller cam, ...)

 

[Graham Endeacott]

It looks like there is room for a bigger bellhousing. Shame that the engine wasn't mounted lower in the first place.

Regards,


Graham.

 

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

Quicktime makes a Windsor to ZF steel bellhousing that woks very well. Many SPF GT racing vintage use it. It has always beenwithin run out specs when checked. FORD 5.0L/302 Ford small block Windsor QuickTime Bellhousings - ZF5 Transmission Model - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing

 

[Mike Pass]

The flywheel is a modified Ford Essex V6 flywheel and is 121 tooth. It was fitted to GTDs because it would fit inside the Renault bellhousing. The Renault clutch has issues with the torque of a good 302.so Mick Sollis did an upgrade to the AP setup as used on the SGT. You may still have the Renault clutch pressure plate or you may have the AP one. I will try to find a pic of the two next to each other. The spline on the Renault and ZF boxes is different so you will have a driven plate with ZF splines.
The flywheel you have will have either the 28oz or 50 oz balance to suit your engine. if you change the flywheel it will need to be match balanced. most GTDs have 28oz engines due to the era they were built. Depending on the power you run the flywheel should be OK. Mine has been fine for 20 years with about 350hp and torque. Mick Sollis used to do steel flywheels in 121 tooth in neutral or 28oz balance.and the AP clutch setup. I had the Essex flywheel on my GTD redrilled to fit the AP clutch.
Cheers
Mike

 

[William PRO-V8]

thank you Mike, for those precious informations
generaly, the 85-up Ford 5.0L are 50oz, and not 28
do you know what is the balance weight on a Essex V6 flywheel 121 tooth ?

 

[Mike Pass]

Here attached are a few pics from my GTD from when I changed the clutch from Renault to AP. Also here is some AP clutch info.

Hope this helps
Cheers
Mike

 

[Mike Pass]

I am not sure what the balance is on the Ford essex V6 flywheel as I didn't build this engine but I would guess more likely to be 28oz.
Cheers
Mike

 

[Morten]

You can check your dampner on front of engine to see if its 28 or 50 oz

 

[William PRO-V8]

My damper has been modified by a " welder"...
I'm sure it was a 28oz, and they added weight to make it to 50.... crazy

 

[Skip Markley]

Looking at the picture of your undercarriage - it looks like you do not have any of the bottom bolts of the bell housing connecting to the rear K-member? So, I presume that only (2) upper bolts and the motor mounts are keeping the engine & drivetrain in place?

 

[William PRO-V8]

Looking at the picture of your undercarriage - it looks like you do not have any of the bottom bolts of the bell housing connecting to the rear K-member? So, I presume that only (2) upper bolts and the motor mounts are keeping the engine & drivetrain in place?

there's 2 bolt on the bottom of the bellhousing that are connecting to the rear frame

 

[Louis]

Hello Everyone!

My build will be using 351W stroked to 427 with a ZF transaxle that Ron McCall is rebuilding. The chassis is RCR. I'm looking at both Quicktime and Kennedy Eng. for the bellhousing. The car is being setup for 90% street and some track time.

Kennedy Eng. is asking if I will be using a 157 or 164 tooth flywheel in my build. In the threads above I'm seeing the number of teeth in the 120s.

I'm learning here so much appreciation for your advice and expertise.

Thank you!
Louis

 

[William PRO-V8]

Louis,
i have a 121tooth flywheel, cause i have an aluminum "in the style of the original" bellhousing, that cannot accept bigger flywheels.
with the steel Quicktime bellhousing (that i've ordered), you need to use a 157-tooth flywheel and no larger than 10.5 in. clutch.

 

[Louis]

Thank you William! Much appreciated!!

Louis

 

[Jerry Irwin]

Thank you William! Much appreciated!!

Louis

Hi Louis,

I guess you have now sorted your flywheel problems...
If not then have a look at my build as I am using 157 tooth flywheel and a bellhousing that looks very similar to yours
I tried a 10.5 inch clutch pack and there was no way it would fit so i opted for a 10 inch... its close but after some machining of the bell housing all fits.
I shall be using a centre push clutch release.. not sure who's yet but prob be AP for reliability.

Jerry

 

[Louis]

I have the drive train assembled and testing fitment in the chassis. With the front of the engine centered the alternator (CVF) hits the upper link tower and the bellhousing starter bulge hits the chassis so the gearbox isn't centered in the chassis. The half-shafts will be nearly straight-on to the gearbox but could move another inch forward if needed.

I've seen where some have notched out the chassis on the starter side for clearance but I haven't found those posts in searching.

Louis

 

[Randy Folsom]

I have the drive train assembled and testing fitment in the chassis. With the front of the engine centered the alternator (CVF) hits the upper link tower and the bellhousing starter bulge hits the chassis so the gearbox isn't centered in the chassis. The half-shafts will be nearly straight-on to the gearbox but could move another inch forward if needed.

I've seen where some have notched out the chassis on the starter side for clearance but I haven't found those posts in searching.

Louis

Louis, Looks you have an RCR. The online manual has a section that shows the RCR recess panel installation. Unfortunately, RCR no longer provides the panel because many of today’s builders use reduced size bell housings and compact starters like those available from Safir. You might be able to find someone that has a panel or you could make one. Cheers, Randy

 

[Louis]

Thank you Randy! I feel silly for not checking the manual.