ZF Clutch and shifter conversion for RF
- Thread starter Johngt40
- Start date
Bill
RHD RHS is usually the best set up for the ZF running GT40 style as the selector post will be low on the right. If you bought a Pantera box the ring and pinion will have to be flipped to the other side and a few oil galleys added to the case internals. If you bought a new RBT and ordered it GT40 style you are good to go.
RHD/RHS lends itself to a rod style shift very well. Lloyd Butfoy told me he had made a cable shifter for his Pantera but had no plans for producing it because it would be too expensive. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif I think if you are going to go the cable shift route you'll have to pick a shifter (ie Toyota MR2 or Lotus Esprit) and figure out how to adapt the translator to the ZF shift pattern.
Also, Fran has built some awesome shift linkages for some of his projects, so I'm sure he already has some ideas to get you started.
Andy
RHD RHS is usually the best set up for the ZF running GT40 style as the selector post will be low on the right. If you bought a Pantera box the ring and pinion will have to be flipped to the other side and a few oil galleys added to the case internals. If you bought a new RBT and ordered it GT40 style you are good to go.
RHD/RHS lends itself to a rod style shift very well. Lloyd Butfoy told me he had made a cable shifter for his Pantera but had no plans for producing it because it would be too expensive. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif I think if you are going to go the cable shift route you'll have to pick a shifter (ie Toyota MR2 or Lotus Esprit) and figure out how to adapt the translator to the ZF shift pattern.
Also, Fran has built some awesome shift linkages for some of his projects, so I'm sure he already has some ideas to get you started.
Andy
Peter Delaney
GT40s Supporter
Stupid question guys, but why does a Pantera ZF R&P need to be inverted in a GT40 ? I am thinking that the layout is the same (front to back : engine, diff, g/box) & unless the 351 rotates in the opposite direction, why flip the R&P ?
(Unless you are also going to flip the whole box as well - I assume to lower the crank height ??).
Stupid question from a Silly poster who is probably being Unhelpful !!!
Kind Regards,
Peter D.
(Unless you are also going to flip the whole box as well - I assume to lower the crank height ??).
Stupid question from a Silly poster who is probably being Unhelpful !!!
Kind Regards,
Peter D.
Ross Nicol
GT40s Supporter
Yes Andy I totally agree with you regarding the RHD, RHS being the best setup for the ZF.Bill I would go the rod shift which is really easy to implement along the RHS of the box and motor.I can give you details of mine if you want but it is straight forward and cheaper than a cable set up if you have to buy 2 push/pull cables.If your ZF came from a Pantera you have work to do as Andy describes.I think all that flipping business has confused people and I stay away from this when describing issues with the ZF. It comes down to this- If you own a Pantera the ZF cover Plate "Bolt on" is underneath the box.In the GT40 this cover plate is on top of the box and has 2 large ears for bolting to the chassis.Now logic tells me a gasketed cover plate would never have been placed on the lower side of a gearbox by the manufacturer so the ZF in my opinion is inverted in the Pantera.Hope this clears the confusion.
Ross
Ross
Ross Nicol
GT40s Supporter
Yes Peter
For use in the GT40 the crank/ZF input shaft line is underneath the output drive shaft centres.This allows very low positioning of the engine and transaxle in the chassis while still maintaining sensible and correct drive shaft angles.The Pantera for some reason chose not to use this low positioning potential and decided to invert the transaxle with associated higher engine position.This is why a ZF when taken from a Pantera and inverted for GT40 use, must have the crown wheel swapped from one side of the case to the other.So you were correct with your observation.
Stupid no, unhelpful no, silly no.
Ross
For use in the GT40 the crank/ZF input shaft line is underneath the output drive shaft centres.This allows very low positioning of the engine and transaxle in the chassis while still maintaining sensible and correct drive shaft angles.The Pantera for some reason chose not to use this low positioning potential and decided to invert the transaxle with associated higher engine position.This is why a ZF when taken from a Pantera and inverted for GT40 use, must have the crown wheel swapped from one side of the case to the other.So you were correct with your observation.
Stupid no, unhelpful no, silly no.
Ross
Im going with the left hand drive and it seems that ERA,RCR has had no problems mocking the ZF set up. I'm going to call them today and order whatever linkage is need to set it up. I will post cost and parts when I know. With the past threads, your explinations make the installation of the ZF a big deal. However, It is only a mounting and linkage that you have to figure out. This is a very small problem. It would be a big deal if you had to start fabricating bellhousings ect...ect..Ross's past threads pretty much explains what you need to do. One of Andy's last threads was concerned about hieght of the engine...Ross explained that you have to cut the mounts and ajust for forawad and aft, height position and re-weld new mounts. After That, it is linkage where the mystery lays... It does'nt seem to hard.
Oliver
Oliver
Peter Delaney
GT40s Supporter
Thanks Ross - now it all makes sense.
Kind Regards,
Peter D.
Kind Regards,
Peter D.
Just called ERA! With the Pantera box inverted and is set up with the mounting bolts he will sell you the frame mount that you have to weld to the space frame. Mono frames need much more fabrication. Linkage is also available for RHD or LHD just let them know. The RF Spaceframe engine height and pitch configuration is low enough to fit the ZF according to ERA.
Oliver
Oliver
Thanks everyone. I bought my ZF from someone sight unseen (it's new from RBT). He was going to use it in his CAV, but went another route. The ZF is currently with Fran so he can make the appropriate changes in mounts. I am going to see Fran Oct 28, so I can take a look then and see what I'm faced with.
Ross - I like the idea of a rod limkage setup. Hopefully, it will pan out this way with my setup.
Cheers
Bill D
Ross - I like the idea of a rod limkage setup. Hopefully, it will pan out this way with my setup.
Cheers
Bill D
Ron McCall
Supporter
Bill,
Fran is taking care of the shift linkage right?
Fran is taking care of the shift linkage right?
Fran Hall RCR
GT40s Sponsor
The shift linkage IS included....dont know why Bill is searching for an answer to a question that has already been answered......must be his age... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
For what it's worth, in building my car we used a BMW M1 transaxle- that is, a ZF5DS25/2. This transaxle is oriented "properly" already as it comes from the ZF factory. By properly I mean as we GT40 enthusiasts define it. ZF units in Panteras are inverted from the GT40 position, which works fine as long as you do the internal modifications, not limited to flipping the ring gear over. There are some oiling issues too from what I gather.
The BMW M1 is a LHD car. What this meant with my unit, because 1149 is a RHD/RHS car, was that the transmission had to be modified so that the shifter could approach the transmission from the right. Other mods included safety-wiring the ring-gear bolts and replacing the BMW M1 top plate with one, made I think by RBT, which includes the transmission mount to the GT40s monocoque.
For most of you, who are using standard Ford clutches, as did I, the issue may be how much clearance there is between the chassis and the bellhousing to permit the shift linkage to travel through. We may have to make some mods there. 1149 has a Mark I monocoque and space is not plentiful in that area. Most original GT40s have a smaller bellhousing with a multiplate AP or Tilton clutch. Not what I wanted and not what you want either, frankly.
Bob Byars at Precision Proformance did the mods to my ZF. So far so good, although we haven't run it very much. Another interesting tidbit- the input shaft spline on the BMW transaxle appears to be the same as on a small-block Chevy clutch disc. Imagine that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
The BMW M1 is a LHD car. What this meant with my unit, because 1149 is a RHD/RHS car, was that the transmission had to be modified so that the shifter could approach the transmission from the right. Other mods included safety-wiring the ring-gear bolts and replacing the BMW M1 top plate with one, made I think by RBT, which includes the transmission mount to the GT40s monocoque.
For most of you, who are using standard Ford clutches, as did I, the issue may be how much clearance there is between the chassis and the bellhousing to permit the shift linkage to travel through. We may have to make some mods there. 1149 has a Mark I monocoque and space is not plentiful in that area. Most original GT40s have a smaller bellhousing with a multiplate AP or Tilton clutch. Not what I wanted and not what you want either, frankly.
Bob Byars at Precision Proformance did the mods to my ZF. So far so good, although we haven't run it very much. Another interesting tidbit- the input shaft spline on the BMW transaxle appears to be the same as on a small-block Chevy clutch disc. Imagine that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Ross Nicol
GT40s Supporter
Gee Bill Fran has just saved you from yourself.Wouln't you feel gutted if you went ahead and spent big money just to find you didn't need to spend anything.I know I would.Oliver if you want some pics of my box and motor installation, go to my website www.abbeysound.com.au and select ross' cars and then GT40.I have just looked and there are some useful pics .Seems such a long time ago I did all that.
Ross
Ross
