Study on effects of "inequality"

[Al Wohlstrom]

Gee Al,

You said in so many words that the number of students who applied themselves was "PROBABLY ZERO". Al, were I come from "ZERO" means "ZERO".

You then went on to say that the one exception to your "ZERO" was your nephew. I think that is an incredable bit of luck!

You made a blatant attack against not just the youth of our country, but the best of our youth. You know, the ones who are going to college! You said that "probably zero" apply themselves, then commented on "basket weaving".

So after condeming our best and brightest, you make one exception, your relative!

Mr hypocracy strikes again.

You then go on to call me a twit?

Yes buffalo boy, you're a twit!

 

[Doug S.]

I say to those demonstrating, get a job, work hard and you too may end up wealthy.

I must respectfully disagree with this statement, Pete...at least, in the current economic climate in the U.S.

IMHO, it would be more accurate to say....."get a job, work hard, and you will end up making someone else more wealthy while you and your family may BARELY be able to put food on the table".

It has always been said "...you have to have money to make money", and there has never been a more accuract description of the economic realities in the U.S.

There may be some hope, though....we had elections yesterday and one of our states, Ohio, voted against diminishing the rights of unions to participate in collective bargaining. That's one state that has gotten it right.

I would really be interested in seeing how much of their wealth the wealthy dedicate to influencing lawmakers to enact legislation that enhances their ability to keep the working class at their mercy...I would certainly expect that the amount is much greater than the taxes those wealthy individuals pay.

Just MHO, but more and more the working class here in the U.S. seems to be expressing the same opinion. Those who I know are experiencing hard times are NOT looking for a handout...nobody with any self-respect wants something for nothing (again, just MHO), but with the inequities in the distribution of the incredible wealth in this country, most I know who are experiencing economic difficulties have little empathy, much less sympathy, for the ineffective cries of "unfair" from the upper crust. It is difficult to worry about someone who lost, say, 30% of their incredible wealth to stock market losses when you're standing in line at a food bank. You would probably not believe how many individuals who were just recently successfully supporting their families are now at the mercy of those very organizations for their very existence. It's sad, and IMHO not their fault....

Cheers,

Doug

 

[Bob Fechter]

I must respectfully disagree with this statement, Pete...at least, in the current economic climate in the U.S.

IMHO, it would be more accurate to say....."get a job, work hard, and you will end up making someone else more wealthy while you and your family may BARELY be able to put food on the table".

It has always been said "...you have to have money to make money", and there has never been a more accuract description of the economic realities in the U.S.

There may be some hope, though....we had elections yesterday and one of our states, Ohio, voted against diminishing the rights of unions to participate in collective bargaining. That's one state that has gotten it right.

I would really be interested in seeing how much of their wealth the wealthy dedicate to influencing lawmakers to enact legislation that enhances their ability to keep the working class at their mercy...I would certainly expect that the amount is much greater than the taxes those wealthy individuals pay.

Just MHO, but more and more the working class here in the U.S. seems to be expressing the same opinion. Those who I know are experiencing hard times are NOT looking for a handout...nobody with any self-respect wants something for nothing (again, just MHO), but with the inequities in the distribution of the incredible wealth in this country, most I know who are experiencing economic difficulties have little empathy, much less sympathy, for the ineffective cries of "unfair" from the upper crust. It is difficult to worry about someone who lost, say, 30% of their incredible wealth to stock market losses when you're standing in line at a food bank. You would probably not believe how many individuals who were just recently successfully supporting their families are now at the mercy of those very organizations for their very existence. It's sad, and IMHO not their fault....

Cheers,

Doug

Here we have a retired teacher proving a point. The schools have spent decades telling our kids they have no chance, huge corporations are screwing you, and they need money to make money. What a load, and after reading several of this man's posts I understand how our kids are failing.

If that is true, how do you explain the immigrants who come here, from a truly repressive society, are astounded by the opportunities, start a little business and succeed beyond their wildest dreams? Well, I'll tell you, they aren't poisoned by the government school system which teaches the opposite to our kids.

Doug is the perfect example of the evils of tenure. The only cure is to privatize schools through the voucher system. How else will we be able to eliminate the deadwood that the corrupt unions institutionalize in our schools.

 

[Jeff Young]

Doug, get a load of this crap-ola:

Here we have a retired teacher proving a point. The schools have spent decades telling our kids they have no chance, huge corporations are screwing you, and they need money to make money. What a load, and after reading several of this man's posts I understand how our kids are failing.

If that is true, how do you explain the immigrants who come here, from a truly repressive society, are astounded by the opportunities, start a little business and succeed beyond their wildest dreams? Well, I'll tell you, they aren't poisoned by the government school system which teaches the opposite to our kids.

Doug is the perfect example of the evils of tenure. The only cure is to privatize schools through the voucher system. How else will we be able to eliminate the deadwood that the corrupt unions institutionalize in our schools.

 

[Chris P.]

Here we have a retired teacher proving a point. The schools have spent decades telling our kids they have no chance, huge corporations are screwing you, and they need money to make money. What a load, and after reading several of this man's posts I understand how our kids are failing.

If that is true, how do you explain the immigrants who come here, from a truly repressive society, are astounded by the opportunities, start a little business and succeed beyond their wildest dreams? Well, I'll tell you, they aren't poisoned by the government school system which teaches the opposite to our kids.

Doug is the perfect example of the evils of tenure. The only cure is to privatize schools through the voucher system. How else will we be able to eliminate the deadwood that the corrupt unions institutionalize in our schools.

What planet do you live on? No school tells that however indirectly you claim they're doing it. Keep building your strawman.....

 

[Chris P.]

F.W.I.W. I am sick and tired of people whinging about the wealthy. Most of them work bloody hard and employ hundreds of thousands of the very people who are trying to tear them down.
Sure there are corporations who have done the wrong thing and IMHO they should not have been bailed out. But Greece and Italy and the U.S. are in the shit because the so called "Poor people" are all looking for a hand out and not a hand up.
Oh and if you read history at all, you will see that there always has been and always will be inequality!
I say to those demonstrating, get a job, work hard and you too may end up wealthy.

Oh for crying out loud Pete, that is nowhere near the real situation. That is a very self deserving and entirely incorrect statement. Most people are not whining about the wealthy. They're whining about the every widening gap and how difficult it is to get out of the bottom. The wealthy will never be that wealthy without the bottom doing the grunt work for them. You can't possibly be ignorant enough to believe that the system will always work in a perfectly balanced manner with everyone having the same chances. This is the same old shit that has existed in society since man banded together. Money isn't the only thing either - it's what comes with having money: the ability to snuggle in close with government at whatever level and get even more for yourself and less for others. This is the very thing that starts revolts because the people are left with no other choice. And remember - it won't be those in the revolution that created the situation, but they will be blamed anyway and chastised by the elite yet again.

We have a huge problem near where I live with traffic in one particular town and the only answer that was all ready to go has been nixed each time because of one extraordinarily wealthy person who cozies up with the local government. Not in his backyard (literally), but do you think anyone else would have that pull?

Yes, there are some who think things should be handed to them, but that does not negate all the other facts.

 

[Chris P.]

Yes sir, Pete. This is all a bunch of bleeding heart liberal jive, driven by the socialist one worlders who want everyone to be equal. Well the problem is always that for the government to have the power to make everyone "equal," has very dire consequences, as we know through previous social experiments.

I have to admire the left for their tireless efforts to have their way. They never give up when faced with setbacks, and are happy with tiny advances so that seventy years later, we have the debt monstrosity and the planned destruction of the social infrastructure of the Western world to the point that people are ready to be enslaved by a one world dictatorship. And, its right around the corner.

Observe, folks, why issues like this keep living on and on... people like Bob turn it into partisan political garbage instead of dealing with the situation. Bob, do you really think there are no conservatives involved in this? You have just demonstrated your incredible ignorance. Once again, you can't even see what the argument is because all you see is what you want. Once again, you have attempted to cut the discussion off right at the beginning by declaring the "other side" not even worthy of debate. You are the 4 year old that won't share and sits and holds his breath in defiance. It doesn't work Bob. Grow up.

 

[Bob Fechter]

Observe, folks, why issues like this keep living on and on... people like Bob turn it into partisan political garbage instead of dealing with the situation. Bob, do you really think there are no conservatives involved in this? You have just demonstrated your incredible ignorance. Once again, you can't even see what the argument is because all you see is what you want. Once again, you have attempted to cut the discussion off right at the beginning by declaring the "other side" not even worthy of debate. You are the 4 year old that won't share and sits and holds his breath in defiance. It doesn't work Bob. Grow up.

The same can be said of your point, aero. You have never questioned your education, have you.

My local high school is a national blue ribbon school, and yet they have a history teacher, not even a philosophy teacher, who tried to teach both my kids, three years apart, that "Karl Marx was right and Communism just hasn't had a fair chance."

for laughs, google the Bill Ayers group, "Teachers For Social Justice," and you'll get a taste of what is going on here.

I'll leave you with Doug's quote for you to again contemplate,
"IMHO, it would be more accurate to say....."get a job, work hard, and you will end up making someone else more wealthy while you and your family may BARELY be able to put food on the table".

 

[Jeff Young]

You clearly hate liberals, and think they are destroying the country. So you believe all of the following people are evil:

John Kennedy, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Paul Newman, Teddy Roosevelt (progressive), FDR, Truman, Lyndon Johnson, Bill Clinton, Justice Brennan, Justice Marshall, Justice Blackmon, Dr. Martin Luther King, Wesley Clark, Gene Simmons, Paul Krugman, Jello Biafra, Robert Kennedy, Tip O'Neil, etc. etc. etc. etc.

Right? These guys are all part of the destruction of America?

 

[Damian]

Jeff I have stayed out of this for the most part BUT really quite while you are ahead because if you start to tear down that list YOU might not like the FACTS (here is a little snppit for you although it claims "supposed" but the story is easily verified) (Joseph Kennedy, the future ambassador to the Court of St. James and the
father of the 35th President of the United States, is supposed to have
arranged with Frank Costello for the use of these ships on "Rum Row" to
smuggle liquor into the United States during Prohibition. Costello told the
story of his involvement with Kennedy to many people but it has never been
completely verified. It is known, however, that before Prohibition ended
Kennedy was appointed U.S. agent for many British distillers including Haig
and Haig Ltd., John Dewar and Sons Ltd., and Gordon's Dry Gin Company.
Kennedy then arranged for his newly organized Somerset) behind those men. Also Yes LIBS are destroying this country. Care to address OBAMA'S recent OOPS IE with Sarkozy. Or what about having members of the Islamic brotherhood in the white house? Still don't see the BLATANT LINE I am drawing for you? Let this one go because I don't want to be one of those that YOU ALL CRIED ABOUT TO DADDY!!!!!!!

 

[Jeff Young]

Both side have criminals in the shadows......or some in the White House (one Richard Milhouse Nixon).

But you are makng my point. I have principled disagreements with some conservatives (and agree with others). I don't hate them, see them as the enemy or believe they are out to "destroy the country."

YOU apparently do. YOU are officially part of the problem.

Jeff I have stayed out of this for the most part BUT really quite while you are ahead because if you start to tear down that list YOU might not like the FACTS (here is a little snppit for you although it claims "supposed" but the story is easily verified) (Joseph Kennedy, the future ambassador to the Court of St. James and the
father of the 35th President of the United States, is supposed to have
arranged with Frank Costello for the use of these ships on "Rum Row" to
smuggle liquor into the United States during Prohibition. Costello told the
story of his involvement with Kennedy to many people but it has never been
completely verified. It is known, however, that before Prohibition ended
Kennedy was appointed U.S. agent for many British distillers including Haig
and Haig Ltd., John Dewar and Sons Ltd., and Gordon's Dry Gin Company.
Kennedy then arranged for his newly organized Somerset) behind those men. Also Yes LIBS are destroying this country. Care to address OBAMA'S recent OOPS IE with Sarkozy. Or what about having members of the Islamic brotherhood in the white house? Still don't see the BLATANT LINE I am drawing for you? Let this one go because I don't want to be one of those that YOU ALL CRIED ABOUT TO DADDY!!!!!!!

 

[Pete McCluskey.]

I just had a call from a Charity asking me to donate some of my clothes to the starving people throughout the world.


I told them to F*** off!! Anybody who fits into my clothes isn't starving!!

 

[Jim Craik]

Damian,

Thats the best you can do, blame someone for the, as you say "never been completely varified" acts of his father?

Really, here in America, you want to blame someone for actions that their father may or may not have done?

I suppose this seems like good American activity to you?

 

[Nick]

How many applied themselves without partying. How many worked with potential employers on their summer break. Probably none.

"get a job, work hard, and you will end up making someone else more wealthy while you and your family may BARELY be able to put food on the table".

Tell me something gentlemen. If I could provide evidence by way of articles that appeared in well respected UK broadsheet newspapers, personnel evidence provided on websites, research findings etc showing that :-

1 Thousands of UK students are in fact working with potential employers (not none).

2 More than 20% of British employees are earning less than a living wage. 5 million people in the UK higher up the pay scale than the minimum wage of £6.08 or $9.69 per hour are barely earning enough to make ends meet.

Please note that is 5 million people ABOVE the minimum wage of $9.69 per hour or for a 40hr week or around $20,155 a year.

Would you actually admit that Al's statement is incorrect and Doug has a lot of evidence in support of his argument. Are you actually interested or would you just dismiss the research findings and articles as the work of "a bunch of bleeding heart liberal jive, driven by the socialist one worlders "

 

[Jeff Young]

Wealth concentration in the US higher than ever. Highest poverty levels since the mid 60s.

This isn't "whining about the rich." Its concern for a social structure that seems to be creating a permanent underclass, which is dangerous for everyone.

 

[Bob Fechter]

You clearly hate liberals, and think they are destroying the country. So you believe all of the following people are evil:

John Kennedy, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Paul Newman, Teddy Roosevelt (progressive), FDR, Truman, Lyndon Johnson, Bill Clinton, Justice Brennan, Justice Marshall, Justice Blackmon, Dr. Martin Luther King, Wesley Clark, Gene Simmons, Paul Krugman, Jello Biafra, Robert Kennedy, Tip O'Neil, etc. etc. etc. etc.

Right? These guys are all part of the destruction of America?

After the way the Democrats treated Joe Lieberman, I think a lot of your list would be in the same boat with poor Joe.

JFK; Pro life, tax cuts to fix a recession which were passed and created a very long time of prosperity.

Gates; using his millions in foundations to help those in need, something he could never have done if he didn't get the needed funding to launch Microsoft. Thank you Ronald Reagan.

Buffett; still fighting a ten year battle with the government to avoid paying ten billion in back taxes.

Newman; using his private funds and influence to help the needy.

Teddy; Again, his policies would have left him defunded by the Democratic Party today.

FDR; the godfather of all of our present problems. Extended the depression by many years due to his spending policies.


Truman; dropped the bomb. Part of the administration that illegaly imprisoned 110,000 Japanese-Americans, destroying their lives.

All of your justices; Extended the role of judicial activism, taking the rights of American citizens away from them.

Johnson; I thought even the Libs were embarrassed by this guy.

clinton; Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Impeached. When Starr got too close to Chinagate, the real impeachable act, Janet Reno ordered Starr to investigate Monica. Who wants to hear about boring national security traitors when we've got a nice, juicy sex scandal!

Dr. King; Again, he would find the Democrat Party had left him.

Gene Simmons, Jello Biafra; Wow, all yours, keep 'em.

Paul Krugman; Is see you Krugman and raise you Milton Friedman.

etc.; exactly.

 

[Bob Fechter]

Tell me something gentlemen. If I could provide evidence by way of articles that appeared in well respected UK broadsheet newspapers, personnel evidence provided on websites, research findings etc showing that :-

1 Thousands of UK students are in fact working with potential employers (not none).

2 More than 20% of British employees are earning less than a living wage. 5 million people in the UK higher up the pay scale than the minimum wage of £6.08 or $9.69 per hour are barely earning enough to make ends meet.

Please note that is 5 million people ABOVE the minimum wage of $9.69 per hour or for a 40hr week or around $20,155 a year.

Would you actually admit that Al's statement is incorrect and Doug has a lot of evidence in support of his argument. Are you actually interested or would you just dismiss the research findings and articles as the work of "a bunch of bleeding heart liberal jive, driven by the socialist one worlders "

"Originally Posted by lonesomebob
"get a job, work hard, and you will end up making someone else more wealthy while you and your family may BARELY be able to put food on the table".

That is most certainly not my quote, that is me quoting Doug.

I don't know about your country, but I do know that in America, a very large percentage of the "low wage, poor people are being tallied up with illegal aliens."

 

[Jeff Young]

We get it. You hate liberals.

Fire up the fertilizer bomb and head on down to San Fran and take a few out.

After the way the Democrats treated Joe Lieberman, I think a lot of your list would be in the same boat with poor Joe.

JFK; Pro life, tax cuts to fix a recession which were passed and created a very long time of prosperity.

Gates; using his millions in foundations to help those in need, something he could never have done if he didn't get the needed funding to launch Microsoft. Thank you Ronald Reagan.

Buffett; still fighting a ten year battle with the government to avoid paying ten billion in back taxes.

Newman; using his private funds and influence to help the needy.

Teddy; Again, his policies would have left him defunded by the Democratic Party today.

FDR; the godfather of all of our present problems. Extended the depression by many years due to his spending policies.


Truman; dropped the bomb. Part of the administration that illegaly imprisoned 110,000 Japanese-Americans, destroying their lives.

All of your justices; Extended the role of judicial activism, taking the rights of American citizens away from them.

Johnson; I thought even the Libs were embarrassed by this guy.

clinton; Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Impeached. When Starr got too close to Chinagate, the real impeachable act, Janet Reno ordered Starr to investigate Monica. Who wants to hear about boring national security traitors when we've got a nice, juicy sex scandal!

Dr. King; Again, he would find the Democrat Party had left him.

Gene Simmons, Jello Biafra; Wow, all yours, keep 'em.

Paul Krugman; Is see you Krugman and raise you Milton Friedman.

etc.; exactly.

 

[Doug S.]

Doug, get a load of this crap-ola:

Thanks, Jeff! LB is only one of the three members I have "ignored", so the only posts of his I see are those which are "quoted" by others.

A load of crap-ola it is, too. LB sounds to me more and more like a raving paranoid, every time I read one of his posts that is quoted by somebody he seems to blame the education system for the country's woes, and he is SO far off base on that one....the only problem with trying to convince him of that is that paranoids by definition don't trust others, and LB sure seems to fit the profile to a T (as in T-party???).

Yes, I worked with students much like LB must have been...their definition of success was to avoid having to do their work and create as much mayhem as possible, making the teachers' jobs even more difficult. Then, they had the temerity to complain to their parents that the teachers weren't doing their jobs, creating even more trouble for the teachers. Yet, there are MANY highly experienced teachers who could earn multiple times their salaries if they were to move into the private sector who remain in education, and for good reason...they realize that if individuals like LB were to become the leaders of this nation, we'd be third world material so fast it would make your head swim. I've seen the "privatization" of education's ugly face, it is fraught with greed and abdication of responsibility. Charter schools that work effectively are fewer than 10% of those in existence, yet people like LB will continue to support them b/c of their unreasonable (and, yes, paranoia does render one unreasonable under normal circumstances) perceptions of the goals and operation of those sincere public school teachers.

The main reason I have "ignored" LB and his partners in crime is b/c I am smart enough to adhere to "George's Rule", shown here on one of my guitar cases:

George's Rule, in its' entirety:

"Never argue with someone more stupid than you.
It'll just make 'em mad if you do.
Just leave 'em believing what they know to be true,
never argue with someone more stupid than you."

Here, you can hear all about it in its' entirety:

George's Rule - YouTube

So, in accordance with George's Rule, I continue to muddle through life, leaving LB to believe what he "knows" to be true, however paranoid that belief may be....and allowing "...his mouth to make him look like the backside of some ol' mule", as Bill Barwick so wisely describes his actions.

Cheers!

Doug

 

[Jim Craik]

Gee Doug,

Thanks for the tip, but if we strictly adhear George's rule, that would end all political discussion