016 to 01E
- Thread starter tractorboy
- Start date
For those who might have an interest in this thread here's an update but not much really to report....basically something all of us have experienced at some time, the shop working on my car is waiting on parts. In this instance an axle and the person (shop) they use in unavailable until the beginning of next week. They are hoping they can find an "off the shelf" part as a cost saving measure versus having a custom axle made. I appreciate this thought as all of us have budgets and mine is limited too. More to follow.....
Pat
Supporter
Do these O1E variants have a unique suffix such as O1E-EKN, O1E-CYN etc.? I've seen charts with nine different O1E ratios identified in that fashion.
Is there a way identify which box has which flange and input shafts and of their variance with 016 axles and existing manufacturer kits, clutch/flywheels, mounts and adapter plates?
It would certainly make conversions more straightforward. The idea spending the bucks to convert from an 016 only to discover the gathered parts are incompatible certainly is disconcerting.
With so many of the newer rollers being fitted with O1Es it would seem that someone must have cracked the code on this.
Scott, Thanks. I've given the shop your info. The mechanic assigned to my car is out today so you could hear from him early next week.
Dave, the shifter I'm using is the same one that came with the car. Extensions have been obtained from CAV and fingers crossed they will work in this application. I believe its a cable shifter system. I'm sure you've read this thread about the different 01E's so hopefully you and others will be better prepared for installation as it appears the critical element would be to measure your current CV's diameter and check they're bolt pattern compared to the output flanges on the 01E before buying to insure less outlay of money.
Pat, as usual your astuteness prevails. The info you question would be a great resource to have and certainly could save a lot of money going in.
Dave, the shifter I'm using is the same one that came with the car. Extensions have been obtained from CAV and fingers crossed they will work in this application. I believe its a cable shifter system. I'm sure you've read this thread about the different 01E's so hopefully you and others will be better prepared for installation as it appears the critical element would be to measure your current CV's diameter and check they're bolt pattern compared to the output flanges on the 01E before buying to insure less outlay of money.
Pat, as usual your astuteness prevails. The info you question would be a great resource to have and certainly could save a lot of money going in.
I'm getting ready to order a trans from you guys, as soon as Jim successfully completes his CAV #82 conversion. I have #40 CAV and if I measure the mounting flange on my 016, will you be able to provide a compatible 01E ?
Pat
Supporter
Dave,
Which O1E box do you have? As I understand it, the side shafts are interchangeable between O1E and O16 but the O1E trans is narrower and requires a 20mm thick adapter between the std (104 or 114 PCD) O1E flange and the CV. A shorter drive shaft on the LHS is also necessary because of the offset. But the O16 flange compatibility may not be true in each of the various iterations of the O1E.
Was that also true in your case? If your CVs bolt right up to the O16 then that might be the O1E box to get and minimize all the grief.
Perhaps you could work a deal with Jimmy on your unused adapters
Here is a chart with the various O1E applications that may be helpful in their identification.
http://12v.org/urs/charlie_smith/01E/ind2.html
Which O1E box do you have? As I understand it, the side shafts are interchangeable between O1E and O16 but the O1E trans is narrower and requires a 20mm thick adapter between the std (104 or 114 PCD) O1E flange and the CV. A shorter drive shaft on the LHS is also necessary because of the offset. But the O16 flange compatibility may not be true in each of the various iterations of the O1E.
Was that also true in your case? If your CVs bolt right up to the O16 then that might be the O1E box to get and minimize all the grief.
Perhaps you could work a deal with Jimmy on your unused adapters
Here is a chart with the various O1E applications that may be helpful in their identification.
http://12v.org/urs/charlie_smith/01E/ind2.html
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I think the more info on an 016 to 01E transplant for CAV's can only improve and encourage early CAV owners to make the swap. I know that Jim's conversion is being well documented and I'm waiting to go ahead converting my #40, based on Jim's completion and satisfaction. Any additional info suchas a part number for a replacement fly wheel and clutch/pressure plate would be helpful.
Hopefully soon we'll have a detailed and complete summation of the parts, problems and solutions for this conversion.
j
Hopefully soon we'll have a detailed and complete summation of the parts, problems and solutions for this conversion.
j
Pat
Supporter
Great point Tom. It may be wise at the same time to consider other options such as converting from an 016 to a G50. It's certainly higher cost unit but there does not appear to be the information vacuum around flanges and other fitment facing the 01E.
There are several members with the G50 and vendors to choose from as well.
It's a nice looking unit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSesh5BMRSU
There are several members with the G50 and vendors to choose from as well.
It's a nice looking unit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSesh5BMRSU
I believe that the 016 flanges will go into any 01E. I tried my 016 flange into a 944 trans and it fits perfectly as well. so the same 016 flange went into a 944 and an 01E. If you are doing an 016 to 01E then you have a set read to try. yes the shaft lenghts will need to change, i suspect only one side will need shortening the other side still works fine on my conversion.
Sure thing.
The 016 flanges will physically fit into the 01E however they are a bit longer so stick out further than the 108mm 01E flanges.
The 01E diff is offset by about an inch to the right of the trans (looking at the bellhousing) and it is also narrower by 1/2 inch. The right side axle will need to be shortened and the left will need to be lengthened. With converting from an 016 to an 01E in Audi vehicles I've moved the longer left half shaft to the right and had a shortened left side shaft made. I've not had a CAV GT40 in the shop to make a definitive list as to precisely what needs to be done but I can tell you the differences between the 016 and the 01E.
Gentlemen, if nothing else by the time I (we) finish this conversion anyone contemplating this swap will have a helluva lot more info then I did before tackling this improvement. I contacted SRE yesterday and they have been very good about getting me answers to questions pretty damn quick. Here's the response I received yesterday.
Attached you will find the photos of the current CV, the flange on the old 016 box and the 01E box. The issue is the bolt pattern diameters are different so we had to make an adapter to go from the existing smaller diameter flange and CV bolt pattern to the larger diameter flange pattern on the new 01E box flanges. The location of the flanges side to side was also different by about 32mm. This provided for us to manufacture an adapter hub (also pictured) on the “longer” side but means that we will have use a shorter drive shaft (axle) on the other side which will also allow the use of the adapter hub on that side too. However, until we get the drive shaft in our hands, we will not know the exact width of the adapter on the left side. We want to make sure there is adequate side to side play in the CV when the assembly is all put together.
The bolt circle on the output flange on the 016 box is 94mm and the bolt circle on the 01E box is 114mm. The adapter, as you can see, is made to adapt one pattern to the other. The adapter is approximately 31.5mm thick.
Not being savvy (read: I'm stupid with computers) with uploading photos I'm unable to show the pics. But by the time this is over I hope to have learned this task. (or sent them to someone who can do it for me/us :thumbsup: )
As you can tell by SRE's response we need the drive shaft and we'll then move forward. Its hoped no other unforeseen issues will arise but we still have to mount the box, connect all the linkage, insure all gears are usable including reverse and check for clearance as I'm told a small piece of the CAV body work may require cutting to clear.
In the end I will provide my opinion and that's all it will be as to whether this is a cost effective swap for owners to consider. I guess I should mention why I'm doing this in the first place. My reasons:
1) The 016 was always on the edge of my engine HP and Torque output meaning my engine has 430 HP and 440 ft lbs but the 016 has been a solid faithful companion based on my driving style (no burnouts and smooth up and down shifts) but I had concerns. Plus, its gearing wasn't the best (especially in 1st and 5th where the ratios weren't ideal)
2) I heard the 01E could handle much more power, had better ratios with 6th gear being a much improved cruising gear meaning less strain on the engine, meaning less heat output and better gas mileage (did I just say better gas mileage in a GT 40?!)
3) It would add value to the car
4) Gave me a higher top speed not that I'll ever use it (but I could!) but should I ever decide to sell the 01E it should be an be asset and I would think a prospective owner might want to hear a bigger versus lower number regarding top speed.
5) Overall, it should make an already great car better.
We'll see. Stay tuned.
Attached you will find the photos of the current CV, the flange on the old 016 box and the 01E box. The issue is the bolt pattern diameters are different so we had to make an adapter to go from the existing smaller diameter flange and CV bolt pattern to the larger diameter flange pattern on the new 01E box flanges. The location of the flanges side to side was also different by about 32mm. This provided for us to manufacture an adapter hub (also pictured) on the “longer” side but means that we will have use a shorter drive shaft (axle) on the other side which will also allow the use of the adapter hub on that side too. However, until we get the drive shaft in our hands, we will not know the exact width of the adapter on the left side. We want to make sure there is adequate side to side play in the CV when the assembly is all put together.
The bolt circle on the output flange on the 016 box is 94mm and the bolt circle on the 01E box is 114mm. The adapter, as you can see, is made to adapt one pattern to the other. The adapter is approximately 31.5mm thick.
Not being savvy (read: I'm stupid with computers) with uploading photos I'm unable to show the pics. But by the time this is over I hope to have learned this task. (or sent them to someone who can do it for me/us :thumbsup: )
As you can tell by SRE's response we need the drive shaft and we'll then move forward. Its hoped no other unforeseen issues will arise but we still have to mount the box, connect all the linkage, insure all gears are usable including reverse and check for clearance as I'm told a small piece of the CAV body work may require cutting to clear.
In the end I will provide my opinion and that's all it will be as to whether this is a cost effective swap for owners to consider. I guess I should mention why I'm doing this in the first place. My reasons:
1) The 016 was always on the edge of my engine HP and Torque output meaning my engine has 430 HP and 440 ft lbs but the 016 has been a solid faithful companion based on my driving style (no burnouts and smooth up and down shifts) but I had concerns. Plus, its gearing wasn't the best (especially in 1st and 5th where the ratios weren't ideal)
2) I heard the 01E could handle much more power, had better ratios with 6th gear being a much improved cruising gear meaning less strain on the engine, meaning less heat output and better gas mileage (did I just say better gas mileage in a GT 40?!)
3) It would add value to the car
4) Gave me a higher top speed not that I'll ever use it (but I could!) but should I ever decide to sell the 01E it should be an be asset and I would think a prospective owner might want to hear a bigger versus lower number regarding top speed.
5) Overall, it should make an already great car better.
We'll see. Stay tuned.
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Thank you Pat. One of these days I'll get with the 20th Century!
Another update, some of you might be asking since it appears, based on input from others, that flanges can be changed from one box to the other so why not just change out the flanges. Its my understanding SRE considered this but for structural integrity reasons among other issues decided against it.
Regarding the axle they advised contact was made with Scott at Advance but he did not have an axle suitable for this application and because they've been unable to locate the right length axle (off the shelf) from other vendors it means one will have to be made and apparently the splines are different at each end of the axle.
How much it will cost to have a custom made axle is unknown. The adapters (two) also had to be made so I've decided to sell a small island I own off the coast of Tahiti to cover the expected outlay. I'm still not worried.....concerned YES, but not worried.
Another update, some of you might be asking since it appears, based on input from others, that flanges can be changed from one box to the other so why not just change out the flanges. Its my understanding SRE considered this but for structural integrity reasons among other issues decided against it.
Regarding the axle they advised contact was made with Scott at Advance but he did not have an axle suitable for this application and because they've been unable to locate the right length axle (off the shelf) from other vendors it means one will have to be made and apparently the splines are different at each end of the axle.
How much it will cost to have a custom made axle is unknown. The adapters (two) also had to be made so I've decided to sell a small island I own off the coast of Tahiti to cover the expected outlay. I'm still not worried.....concerned YES, but not worried.
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I just spoke to SRE who appear to be doing pretty much what Dave is doing with his 01E install (see his thread 01E Install). One side of my box needs a shortened drive shaft (drivers side on a LHD car) based on the off-set of the box so SRE are in the process of making the shaft.
SRE also mentioned the kit I obtained from CAV has been all encompassing meaning only one piece has not been used. I should let everyone know the kit I ordered from CAV only contained the parts I would need to perform this swap. I chose not to order the adapter plate, clutch, starter, CV's, gear box slave cylinder, flywheel and a few other sundry items because my research showed I might not need them. So far that has proven to be true. Although anyone thinking of doing this swap will be able to obtain them all via CAV if needed.
SRE also advised they had to have a new clutch disk made to work with the flywheel since the clutch I ordered was based on input from a friend who did this install because apparently (as we have now discovered) his 01E is slightly different to mine.
More to follow.
SRE also mentioned the kit I obtained from CAV has been all encompassing meaning only one piece has not been used. I should let everyone know the kit I ordered from CAV only contained the parts I would need to perform this swap. I chose not to order the adapter plate, clutch, starter, CV's, gear box slave cylinder, flywheel and a few other sundry items because my research showed I might not need them. So far that has proven to be true. Although anyone thinking of doing this swap will be able to obtain them all via CAV if needed.
SRE also advised they had to have a new clutch disk made to work with the flywheel since the clutch I ordered was based on input from a friend who did this install because apparently (as we have now discovered) his 01E is slightly different to mine.
More to follow.