David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
24h du Le Mans 2006
- Thread starter David Morton
- Start date
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
Keith - you wrote:
The fuel the Audi's ran on was apparently a clear spirit diesel manufactured from natural gas, and not something you could pick up from a supplier for anything less than $1,000 per gallon (if you could ever get it at all which you can't). As this comes under the heading of an extremely exotic fuel, I'm very surprised the ACO allowed it to start with. Not only that but it's a non renewable source and whilst it might be pollution free, 95% of the worlds remaining resources are under Russian control, so for economic and political reasons, it ain't going to be an option for us anytime soon.
It must have cost Shell an arm and a leg to develop it.
Well here is the answer from the horses mouth:
Dear David,
The comments regarding the fuel makes an "interesting" reading (I would really like to know where the guy gets his info´s from, certainly not from us.............!)
Some facts about the race fuel:
its based on the actual Shell V-Power Diesel formulation so its not an exotic fuel at all
a key ingredient at the heart of the fuel is synthetic GTL Fuel, which is synthesized from natural gas to have outstandingly clean and efficient combustion (as does Shell V-Power Diesel sold at retail stations here in Germany)
it meets the relevant ACO regulation and the EN 590 road car fuel specification
this advanced diesel race fuel was designed to continuously clean and protect modern precision fuel injection systems
this fuel is available to ALL motorsport teams globally (not just in Le Mans or at the LMS) that are racing a diesel engine and anybody can purchase it for 3,55 €/per litre (excl. Excise duty, VAT and transport) - thats 13,43675 €´s per US gallon and 16,1383 €´s per brit. gallon
Hope that helps - please do me a favour and only use these facts for any answer to that post - any reaction or comment I would certainly be interested in
!!
Speak to you soon,
Peter
mit freundlichen Grüßen / Regards,
Peter Fordemann
Business Development Manager Motorsport/Shell Racing
Shell Global Solutions
So now we know.
The fuel the Audi's ran on was apparently a clear spirit diesel manufactured from natural gas, and not something you could pick up from a supplier for anything less than $1,000 per gallon (if you could ever get it at all which you can't). As this comes under the heading of an extremely exotic fuel, I'm very surprised the ACO allowed it to start with. Not only that but it's a non renewable source and whilst it might be pollution free, 95% of the worlds remaining resources are under Russian control, so for economic and political reasons, it ain't going to be an option for us anytime soon.
It must have cost Shell an arm and a leg to develop it.
Well here is the answer from the horses mouth:
Dear David,
The comments regarding the fuel makes an "interesting" reading (I would really like to know where the guy gets his info´s from, certainly not from us.............!)
Some facts about the race fuel:
its based on the actual Shell V-Power Diesel formulation so its not an exotic fuel at all
a key ingredient at the heart of the fuel is synthetic GTL Fuel, which is synthesized from natural gas to have outstandingly clean and efficient combustion (as does Shell V-Power Diesel sold at retail stations here in Germany)
it meets the relevant ACO regulation and the EN 590 road car fuel specification
this advanced diesel race fuel was designed to continuously clean and protect modern precision fuel injection systems
this fuel is available to ALL motorsport teams globally (not just in Le Mans or at the LMS) that are racing a diesel engine and anybody can purchase it for 3,55 €/per litre (excl. Excise duty, VAT and transport) - thats 13,43675 €´s per US gallon and 16,1383 €´s per brit. gallon
Hope that helps - please do me a favour and only use these facts for any answer to that post - any reaction or comment I would certainly be interested in
!!Speak to you soon,
Peter
mit freundlichen Grüßen / Regards,
Peter Fordemann
Business Development Manager Motorsport/Shell Racing
Shell Global Solutions
So now we know.
Hmmmm, corporate speak for exotic methinks.
Thanks for the inside info Dave, don't you love the way they use commas on the contintent.
Reading those fuel cost figures quickly had me seeing a gallon of Shell's perfectly ordinary and non-exotic diesel (based on widely used pefectly normal synthesised natural gas) available everywhere except where you live, (and work) to be 16,138.3 Euros per Imp gallon!
It's just possible he meant 16.1 Euros per gallon to be fair.
Ok Shell, let's have it available at the pumps in the UK so I can tell Tony Blair to shove his road tax on us "gas guzzling, environment ruining, diesels" right up his despatch box. He was the one that encouraged us to change to diesels to start with. But, a bit cheaper, hey.
Thanks for the inside info Dave, don't you love the way they use commas on the contintent.
Reading those fuel cost figures quickly had me seeing a gallon of Shell's perfectly ordinary and non-exotic diesel (based on widely used pefectly normal synthesised natural gas) available everywhere except where you live, (and work) to be 16,138.3 Euros per Imp gallon!
It's just possible he meant 16.1 Euros per gallon to be fair.
Ok Shell, let's have it available at the pumps in the UK so I can tell Tony Blair to shove his road tax on us "gas guzzling, environment ruining, diesels" right up his despatch box. He was the one that encouraged us to change to diesels to start with. But, a bit cheaper, hey.
David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
Keith
I read it as
€3.55 per litre before Taxes and Transport - €13.43675 per USG and €16.1383 per Imp.gallon using 4.546 Litres per Imp Gallon.
In Europe normal Gazole can be as cheap as €0.99 and Blue diesel about €1 .20 ish with tax so yes it is probably about 4 times as expensive. (For the USA, that equates to approximately $17.00 per USG before tax).
After this 24hr race, 'diesel' is now established and a sign of things to come.
Even though both me, and the group of marshalls over from the USA (working at the 24 LM) prefer the noise that petrol produces, it may be a thing of the past. In fact they asked if I would ask Audi to put a bell or a klaxon on the front of the car so they can hear it coming. Roll on 2007 - at least Peugeot will be stepping up to the plate so thats two, and in 2008 it will probably be four or more. Unless the ACO tinker with the rules again, which I imagine they will.
I read it as
€3.55 per litre before Taxes and Transport - €13.43675 per USG and €16.1383 per Imp.gallon using 4.546 Litres per Imp Gallon.
In Europe normal Gazole can be as cheap as €0.99 and Blue diesel about €1 .20 ish with tax so yes it is probably about 4 times as expensive. (For the USA, that equates to approximately $17.00 per USG before tax).
After this 24hr race, 'diesel' is now established and a sign of things to come.
Even though both me, and the group of marshalls over from the USA (working at the 24 LM) prefer the noise that petrol produces, it may be a thing of the past. In fact they asked if I would ask Audi to put a bell or a klaxon on the front of the car so they can hear it coming. Roll on 2007 - at least Peugeot will be stepping up to the plate so thats two, and in 2008 it will probably be four or more. Unless the ACO tinker with the rules again, which I imagine they will.
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David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
POL (Petrol, Oill, and Lubricants
Needless to say, I am using Shell fuel (Optimax) in our cars and progessively changing to Shell Lubricants as well, (synthetic for Engines). The Optimax has all the additives needed except lead and the difference with Optimax, especailly in the motorcycle is amazing. I guess my 302 still needs lead so either I add the lead or use 4 star which is still available in the town where I live. (There are quite a few vintage cars in the area who all use the same filling station for the 4*). The general question I have for any body to comment on is what is needed to be done on the 302 to run on unleaded 98 or 95 octane and is there a perceivable difference between the two ?
Dave M
Needless to say, I am using Shell fuel (Optimax) in our cars and progessively changing to Shell Lubricants as well, (synthetic for Engines). The Optimax has all the additives needed except lead and the difference with Optimax, especailly in the motorcycle is amazing. I guess my 302 still needs lead so either I add the lead or use 4 star which is still available in the town where I live. (There are quite a few vintage cars in the area who all use the same filling station for the 4*). The general question I have for any body to comment on is what is needed to be done on the 302 to run on unleaded 98 or 95 octane and is there a perceivable difference between the two ?
Dave M
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David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
POL etc
40BUD, thanks for the info. Do you notice any difference in fuels or do you stick to a particular one?
Just for a comparison, could somebody please try running one tank nearly dry and then put some of the premium type fuels such as Optimax in that tank one tank and their regular brand in the other then comment on any difference ?
The last question - Do the guys who race these cars use anything special or any additives ?
My questions are prompted from when I flew to Paris a couple of weeks back and sat next to a guy who used to work for Shell but is now with Mobil. He explained to me that the Shell Optimax is on a level far above any other commercially available fuel available and part of his job at Shell UK was to run a fleet of identical cars on the oppositions fuel in addition to one on his own companies Optimax and then disassemble all the engines for laboratory analysis. The Shell fuel apparently returned higher mileage figures and the internals of the engines were like chalk and cheese, the Shell internals were still as new compared with those using the opposition's fuel. He went on to say that one of the engines was re-assembled and then run on the Shell fuel and the gum and deposits disappeared and the internals in contact with the fuel all cleaned up again. Though he now works for Mobil, he still uses the Shell fuel in his private cars. He also told me that Volvo agents actually sell additives to put in the other fuels to bring it up to the Shell standards which, to be honest I did not believe until I took the 'chief blondes' car in for servicing (one of the only the two times I'm allowed to drive it) and there was the Volvo additive on sale in Litre plastic bottles just as this guy from Mobil told me.
40BUD, thanks for the info. Do you notice any difference in fuels or do you stick to a particular one?
Just for a comparison, could somebody please try running one tank nearly dry and then put some of the premium type fuels such as Optimax in that tank one tank and their regular brand in the other then comment on any difference ?
The last question - Do the guys who race these cars use anything special or any additives ?
My questions are prompted from when I flew to Paris a couple of weeks back and sat next to a guy who used to work for Shell but is now with Mobil. He explained to me that the Shell Optimax is on a level far above any other commercially available fuel available and part of his job at Shell UK was to run a fleet of identical cars on the oppositions fuel in addition to one on his own companies Optimax and then disassemble all the engines for laboratory analysis. The Shell fuel apparently returned higher mileage figures and the internals of the engines were like chalk and cheese, the Shell internals were still as new compared with those using the opposition's fuel. He went on to say that one of the engines was re-assembled and then run on the Shell fuel and the gum and deposits disappeared and the internals in contact with the fuel all cleaned up again. Though he now works for Mobil, he still uses the Shell fuel in his private cars. He also told me that Volvo agents actually sell additives to put in the other fuels to bring it up to the Shell standards which, to be honest I did not believe until I took the 'chief blondes' car in for servicing (one of the only the two times I'm allowed to drive it) and there was the Volvo additive on sale in Litre plastic bottles just as this guy from Mobil told me.
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David Morton
Lifetime Supporter
POL etc
Duplication of the above post. Finger trouble?
Duplication of the above post. Finger trouble?
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Dave, I ran 11:5 compression on 95 RON unleaded pump gas with proprietory brand (Moroso) octane booster with no problems on a SBC producing 575 hp. Had the valve seats and guides changed for hardened/bronze and had zero problems. However, it wasn't exactly your average daily driver.
You can make most motors run on 95 unleaded with a bit of tweaking, it's just the valve seats that might suffer some stick if of the old variety.
As for Optimax, wasn't this the fancy fuel that originally (allegedly) caused engine blow ups when it was first released?
It wasn't exactly finger trouble Dave, you just twitched at the wrong moment.
You can make most motors run on 95 unleaded with a bit of tweaking, it's just the valve seats that might suffer some stick if of the old variety.
As for Optimax, wasn't this the fancy fuel that originally (allegedly) caused engine blow ups when it was first released?
It wasn't exactly finger trouble Dave, you just twitched at the wrong moment.
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