A few hours ago on the Nuremburg Ring two very nice members of Ferrari Chat were killed in a Ferrari 360 that flipped over and burst into flames. Life is precious. Never forget that.
Be Carefull
- Thread starter MK -IV J6
- Start date
Jim,
Like Sgt. Esterhaus used to say..."let's be careful out there..."
Just becuase one has the means to buy a particular car does not mean they have the skills to "take it to the limit."
One of my most humbling lessons was the first time a I had the chance to drive a GT40 at Watkins Glen, I learned VERY quickly the concept of driving at 8/10s a car that is capable of 11/10s!
Many people are driving vintage (or current) cars that took some very talented people back in the "old" days. What makes then think that a part time hobbiest can run like a true professional did 20 years ago is a puzzle to me. Many great drivers met their end in cars that are today raced by dentists and brokers (no insults ment to anyone, just a "generic" description)who have no real respect for the laws of physics. Just cause a car is "vintage" does not make the wall any softer. Hell, I am racing in a "seniors" go-Kart race league and I scare myself at LEAST one a week!!
Rick /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Like Sgt. Esterhaus used to say..."let's be careful out there..."
Just becuase one has the means to buy a particular car does not mean they have the skills to "take it to the limit."
One of my most humbling lessons was the first time a I had the chance to drive a GT40 at Watkins Glen, I learned VERY quickly the concept of driving at 8/10s a car that is capable of 11/10s!
Many people are driving vintage (or current) cars that took some very talented people back in the "old" days. What makes then think that a part time hobbiest can run like a true professional did 20 years ago is a puzzle to me. Many great drivers met their end in cars that are today raced by dentists and brokers (no insults ment to anyone, just a "generic" description)who have no real respect for the laws of physics. Just cause a car is "vintage" does not make the wall any softer. Hell, I am racing in a "seniors" go-Kart race league and I scare myself at LEAST one a week!!
Rick /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Howard Jones
Supporter
I'm sorry to hear of your friends, I agree with you about part time hero race driving. I remember the first time I rode a real road race bike,TZ350, and my friend who owned the bike told me to "stay off the line and to the outside and for godsake don't try to PASS anyone! This was in a pratice session for all classes and the 125's were out with the 250's and the open bikes. After a few laps I was SURE I could at least get by the 25's, after all I had 3 times the power, and I was pretty much on the rear fender of one of them for a couple of laps in a row when Greg put up the pit board and all it said on it was NO!. He told me afterwards he could tell I was seeing thru the red mist. It all happens SOOOO fast when it goes big time wrong. Lets all take it easy and drive within our adult, morgaged, got to go to work on monday, limmits. Again sorry to hear of your friends.
When sad things like this happen, it gives us pause
to look past the fun, and realize the risks involved.
Remember, "Only the good die young".
Please, let's not hear this sort of news
about any of our members here in the future.
Sorry for the loss of your friends, Jim.
They sounded like true gentlemen, who loved their sport.
I'm sure that they will be missed.
to look past the fun, and realize the risks involved.
Remember, "Only the good die young".
Please, let's not hear this sort of news
about any of our members here in the future.
Sorry for the loss of your friends, Jim.
They sounded like true gentlemen, who loved their sport.
I'm sure that they will be missed.
That's a shame. It can happen to even experienced folk as well, however. Look what happened to poor Bob Akin at Road Atlanta.
Club organizers need to do a better job of measuring up talent/experience levels and helping folks get up to speed. I believe they can do this without hurting people's feelings too much - and isn't that a problem when dealing with racetracks & fast, expensive cars?
So Rick, what/where was the Glen "experience" in the GT40?
Club organizers need to do a better job of measuring up talent/experience levels and helping folks get up to speed. I believe they can do this without hurting people's feelings too much - and isn't that a problem when dealing with racetracks & fast, expensive cars?
So Rick, what/where was the Glen "experience" in the GT40?
I have to agree that people need to know their limits, and that's why I've said in the past
that you should look into upgrading the driver before you look into upgrading the car.
That said, we don't know what happened here. Everybody seems to be assuming that the
driver screwed up. But things happen that you have absolutely no control over. Look at
Ayrton Senna, or Mario Andretti's flying somersault at Indy, which could have turned out a
whole lot worse than it did. The only way to avoid the risk is not to take it in the first place.
But there's a great thrill that comes from cheating death, and of course a great sadness that
comes when death wins a round...
that you should look into upgrading the driver before you look into upgrading the car.
That said, we don't know what happened here. Everybody seems to be assuming that the
driver screwed up. But things happen that you have absolutely no control over. Look at
Ayrton Senna, or Mario Andretti's flying somersault at Indy, which could have turned out a
whole lot worse than it did. The only way to avoid the risk is not to take it in the first place.
But there's a great thrill that comes from cheating death, and of course a great sadness that
comes when death wins a round...
This is indeed sad news. It is said however that its somehow better if such a tragedy happens while you are doing something that you love. If this is true, then its a small consolation.
Its important though to keep this unfortunate incident in some sort of perspective. Being careful does not necessarily mean abstaining from the activity. It does mean though that all the risks should be considered and minimized. Taking no risks, as they say, is the biggest risk of all.
And on a positive note, an analysis was done by the local motorsport administrative body (CAMS) a number of years ago and found that anyone with a motorsport license was far less likely to be involved in a serious road accident. So looking at the larger picture, you are actually improving your chances of survival by going fast on a race track. To draw an analogy, jogging improves your fitness so that you are less likely to have a heart attack, even though you are more likely to have a heart attack at the moment that you are jogging.
Its important though to keep this unfortunate incident in some sort of perspective. Being careful does not necessarily mean abstaining from the activity. It does mean though that all the risks should be considered and minimized. Taking no risks, as they say, is the biggest risk of all.
And on a positive note, an analysis was done by the local motorsport administrative body (CAMS) a number of years ago and found that anyone with a motorsport license was far less likely to be involved in a serious road accident. So looking at the larger picture, you are actually improving your chances of survival by going fast on a race track. To draw an analogy, jogging improves your fitness so that you are less likely to have a heart attack, even though you are more likely to have a heart attack at the moment that you are jogging.
Steve
The Nurbergring is one of the longest and most dangerous race courses in the world. There are many blind coronrs and many people have been killed on it. It is open to anyone in any car on a per lap fee basis. A Ferrari 360 is serious fast but it is a street car. It doesn't have a roll cage or racing fuel system or a fire system. The driver was going too fast. He lost control. The car flipped and caught on fire. Both he and the Passenger were killed. These were young guys 29/34. I think a lot of people don't realize that owing a very fast car doesn't enable you to contravene the laws of Physics...
The Nurbergring is one of the longest and most dangerous race courses in the world. There are many blind coronrs and many people have been killed on it. It is open to anyone in any car on a per lap fee basis. A Ferrari 360 is serious fast but it is a street car. It doesn't have a roll cage or racing fuel system or a fire system. The driver was going too fast. He lost control. The car flipped and caught on fire. Both he and the Passenger were killed. These were young guys 29/34. I think a lot of people don't realize that owing a very fast car doesn't enable you to contravene the laws of Physics...
2001 Viper disassembly
Last Sunday 2 miles from my home two local men were killed in a 2001 Viper. They were traveling at high speed , went left of center to pass a car , lost control and left the road, traveling 591 feet . Then airborne flipping end over end 165ft, then upside down and being launched again over another bisecting road ,68ft and then striking a large pine tree 15ft up. Driver was then ejected (although belts worn and bags had deployed). the strong lesson here : Learn to drive your car on a racetrack under controlled conditions. Lapping or club events are the place for this type of high speed driving. You have nothing to prove on the public highway and save it for the track.
Last Sunday 2 miles from my home two local men were killed in a 2001 Viper. They were traveling at high speed , went left of center to pass a car , lost control and left the road, traveling 591 feet . Then airborne flipping end over end 165ft, then upside down and being launched again over another bisecting road ,68ft and then striking a large pine tree 15ft up. Driver was then ejected (although belts worn and bags had deployed). the strong lesson here : Learn to drive your car on a racetrack under controlled conditions. Lapping or club events are the place for this type of high speed driving. You have nothing to prove on the public highway and save it for the track.
Howard Jones
Supporter
Re: 2001 Viper disassembly
Reading all of this breaks my heart! I guess it all comes down to take a little time and work up to speed, save the 10/10s stuff for track days, make sure the fire system, belt system is installed per spec, and wear a helmet/ proper firesuit when on a track. You know I have never even owned a street motorcycle and I've owned/raced more bikes of all types than I can count. Too much can go wrong on the street! The only time I got really hurt was testing a motocross bike out in the street in front of my house after putting the gearbox back together. Some woman pulled out of her garage and I ended up on the blacktop at about 30mph avoiding her. No helmet, sneekers, shorts and a T-shirt. It hurt everywhere for weeks. Anyway your right, being careful does not mean not having fun. Just having fun again tommorrow.
God bless us all.
Reading all of this breaks my heart! I guess it all comes down to take a little time and work up to speed, save the 10/10s stuff for track days, make sure the fire system, belt system is installed per spec, and wear a helmet/ proper firesuit when on a track. You know I have never even owned a street motorcycle and I've owned/raced more bikes of all types than I can count. Too much can go wrong on the street! The only time I got really hurt was testing a motocross bike out in the street in front of my house after putting the gearbox back together. Some woman pulled out of her garage and I ended up on the blacktop at about 30mph avoiding her. No helmet, sneekers, shorts and a T-shirt. It hurt everywhere for weeks. Anyway your right, being careful does not mean not having fun. Just having fun again tommorrow.
God bless us all.
Stupid me, I read "Nuremburg Ring" too quickly and didn't realize it was the Nurburgring. While I stand by my comments on the responsibility of clubs to manage talent & experience levels, that track is something else entirely. Anyone who has driven the track for real or simmed it in 'Grand Prix Legends' knows how demonic it is in terms of blind corners & nasty objects to hit/sail over/land on. Driving at race speeds there without some familiarity is simply not a high-percentage play.
It's amazing that in this day and age, the fact that the 'ring takes the lives of several people a year in just this way has no impact on availability to the general public. I guess that's good and bad.
It's amazing that in this day and age, the fact that the 'ring takes the lives of several people a year in just this way has no impact on availability to the general public. I guess that's good and bad.
Paul Thompson 'Hooligan'
Admin
Hi all,
A few years ago the GTD40 Car Club made a group visit to the Nurburgring for a long weekend. There was time on the long circuit and an event of historic cars on the modern short circuit to spectate at. The old circuit is well maintained but incredibly long and whilst you may familiarize yourself with sections after repeated laps - nobody would claim to know the circuit. Having cut my teeth in rallying - I aided Malcolm MacAdam for a number of laps by reading 'pace' notes made on our first pass - whilst this gave confidence - you always had to be aware of the differential in speed between vehicles. When we were on circuit, there were many others including bikes, full race GT Porsches, Pantera's and even what looked liked pensioners getting a lap in a mini bus! It was one place you really needed eyes in the back of your head or better still a passenger spotting too. One club member, an ex F3 veteran, described the experience as 'bl@@dy Dangerous!' -
That said - if you ever get the chance - do it, as it really is awesome - just be carefull and as others have mentioned, if you have fireproof's etc, wear them - they do nothing left in your kit bag...
A few years ago the GTD40 Car Club made a group visit to the Nurburgring for a long weekend. There was time on the long circuit and an event of historic cars on the modern short circuit to spectate at. The old circuit is well maintained but incredibly long and whilst you may familiarize yourself with sections after repeated laps - nobody would claim to know the circuit. Having cut my teeth in rallying - I aided Malcolm MacAdam for a number of laps by reading 'pace' notes made on our first pass - whilst this gave confidence - you always had to be aware of the differential in speed between vehicles. When we were on circuit, there were many others including bikes, full race GT Porsches, Pantera's and even what looked liked pensioners getting a lap in a mini bus! It was one place you really needed eyes in the back of your head or better still a passenger spotting too. One club member, an ex F3 veteran, described the experience as 'bl@@dy Dangerous!' -
That said - if you ever get the chance - do it, as it really is awesome - just be carefull and as others have mentioned, if you have fireproof's etc, wear them - they do nothing left in your kit bag...
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="green">Steve
The Nurbergring is one of the longest and most dangerous race courses in the world.</font>
[/ QUOTE ]
I begin to understand...
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="green"> It is open to anyone in any car on a per lap fee basis. </font>
[/ QUOTE ]
This I knew. I have a friend who has driven it (in a rental car, I think)
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="green"> There are many blind corners and many people have been killed on it.</font>
[/ QUOTE ]
This I didn't know.
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="blue"> When we were on circuit, there were many others including bikes, full race GT Porsches,
Pantera's and even what looked liked pensioners getting a lap in a mini bus! </font>
[/ QUOTE ]
Yikes!
<font color="green">Steve
The Nurbergring is one of the longest and most dangerous race courses in the world.</font>
[/ QUOTE ]
I begin to understand...
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="green"> It is open to anyone in any car on a per lap fee basis. </font>
[/ QUOTE ]
This I knew. I have a friend who has driven it (in a rental car, I think)
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="green"> There are many blind corners and many people have been killed on it.</font>
[/ QUOTE ]
This I didn't know.
[ QUOTE ]
<font color="blue"> When we were on circuit, there were many others including bikes, full race GT Porsches,
Pantera's and even what looked liked pensioners getting a lap in a mini bus! </font>
[/ QUOTE ]
Yikes!
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/article.asp?storyId=6918
This is news all over the world....a terrible way for anyone's " <font color="red">15 minutes </font> ..."
Rick /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
This is news all over the world....a terrible way for anyone's " <font color="red">15 minutes </font> ..."
Rick /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
