Building a car and wanna know the costs....

[Guest]

No,No Pete, Our racing regulations are far from being liberal and we do have strict criteria to follow but remember that i run in an "historic" based series which allows me with specific RAC/MSA certification to run without being surrounded by "scaffolding".
I guess that i,m of the old school when it comes to racing and thats why my 40 and 917 racing programme are being run to replicate how racing used to be, not like the sanitized world of racing that has turned a once great sport into what it is now.
To race a 40 derivative competitively it is not necessary to spend these huge amounts being spoken of and years of experience have shown me this time after time.Forgive my following comments but personally i despair at the way the very raw racing "essence" of the GT 40 has been lost in a lot of builds.
My 40 as you have seen in my previous posting cost me £18,200 excluding the F GT 40 number plate and as a result of total reliability and preparation saw me have a succesfull and rewarding season last year culminating in GULF sponsorship. If any of you are at the NEC from the 4th to the 6th of March visit the GULF stand and you can see the 40 in the flesh.
All the 40s produced worldwide all have faults and yet are all great. This detailed analysis of each car will never reach a final 10 out of 10. Trevor Taylor rolled his GTD based 40 over here and came out unscathed and the car still races like hell! I lost mine when i hit a damp line at about 90 mph, did a full 360 spin, hit the infield and launched 6 feet in the air and came crashing down. Not a mark,no bent suspension, no nothing. Good fortune, luck or just a very strong chassis. Who knows!
Two weeks previously two of our fellow drivers were killed at Cadwell Park in their Cobras.... Two different chassis..........


Putting a fuel cell in the nose of a 40!!!!
The quickest way to have a crash.Destroy the wonderfull handling and balance straight away!!!!!!!!!!

Regards and forgive my observatoins,
GTA Racing.

 

The problem is that in the US we don't have the choice of taking the risk. It's not about wether or not I would accept the risk but they simply won't let me out on the track unless my vehicle meets ALL the safety standards...especially fuel safety. We can be penalized 30 seconds (or more) for spilling a quarter sized drop of fuel in the pits while refueling. May sound stupid...I watch NASCAR feeder series where the shirtsleeve guy spills gallons of gas all over the place but in OUR series...we have to be in full suits and not spill one drop of fuel. So I HAVE to build a car that meets that or it's a garage queen.

Personally I've never found racing particularly sanitary just because of not taking unnecessary risks...I wore a lexan visor racing formula cars rather than a plexiglass one because it didn't really make the sport better if I got a rock through my eye like Helmut Marko and I don't believe dying by fire is necessarily enhancement to my motor racing activities. There is P-L-E-N-T-Y of risk for anyone

Here's how the blue car I posted above came to be that shape. I wasnt the driver doing the stint at the time but picture your car in this position:

And not to say I might NOT take the chance but again...they simply won't let me out on the track.

But you and I are eye to eye on budget...there's a minimum you HAVE to spend to race but racing doesnt automatically require you spend a fortune.

 

people.........lets face it...owning, building,having built or buying one built...gt40's are not cheap to have.
Do it right the first time,and the pleasure of owning one, will always be yours..

 

[Howard Jones]

Forgive me but what is the question? Didn't someone just want to know what to expect cost-wise building a kit GT40? Ans: 30-100k depending on what you want. How you arrive at what you want is really the question. This fourm is full of ideas as to what kind of options are to be had. Study it and post more questions as they arise. Or... buy a used one and mod it to your hearts content!
Good luck, have fun, get started!!

 

Regarding "race" specifications.

What are your prices for a full-race configuration with legal roll cage, side-impact protection (meaning NASCAR bars and fuel system fully contained within the chassis) and fuel system for a roller? Each company I have contacted has claimed a "race" version which doesn't turn out to be legal for any racing in the US.

So far the kits I've seen wouldn't be legal for any but the most liberal fun track day organization in the US. Race for trophies in a class and they get pretty picky about things like fuel vapor isolation, crush zones and roll cage tubing specs.

IMHO once you start having to reengineer the chassis and install a cage etc...all the kits are basically equal. I am looking for a car that would pass an SCCA or NASA tech inspection for RACING as built straight out of the container. Given that this means adding a cage to the basic design (a good idea anyway IMHO for a car with a fiberglass roof) and rethinking the whole pontoon fuel setup (a bar above an aluminum tank hasn't been race legal in the US since the 60's), it seems like a natural progression for any basic tube-frame chassis.

Granted I'm doing amateur racing but the requirements are pretty much the same in every racing organization in the US. I could certainly by a completed Radical for $45k US including engine so to make the "cooler" GT40 thing fly it has to be at a pricepoint which is not vastly more expensive than purpose built (and sorted and proven) race cars.

Frankly finding it a bit frustrating. Things like racing brakes and engines and transmissions are expensive but available in huge supply...far more challenging is the problem of what to put them IN.

I had a nice talk with Graham Turner about his UK racing program and it mirrors what I'm trying to do except the safety requirements he has to abide to are liberal in the extreme. In the US (probably due to tort laws and liability) we aren't "free" to choose our own level of risk so have to conform to the sanctioning body rules. The irony is that it seems that a race configured chassis would be the safest street-car configuration also.

If a cage is good enough for a $700,000 Lola original, why isn't it standard in GT40 kits?

Authentic Lola Mk VI with modern safety equipment:

(steps down off soap box).

 

Hi all

I am using a RML style cage as shown in the photo below on Rays own GT40

This is Chris Notley's RML showing the engine and trans in place.

[ February 20, 2003: Message edited by: Chris Melia ]

 

I take it the comments here all relate to race settings. Here is my question:

Pete F states:
Was originally thinking turnkey-minus CAV but the more I looked at that beautiful car, the less I wanted to be driving it down the street and get rear-ended and have it sitting in the garage not being suitable for taking to the track and certainly not remotely legal for racing in the US. Haven't gotten any specs about their "race" version but tube frame = can be fixed, stainless monocoque = can't be fixed and to me racing means being able to lose the entire thing and not suffer any undue financial or emotional hardship

Pete, are you saying a tubular frame can be repaired but a monocoque stainless can't? If so, what's the reason for this?

Second, if you are talking about a race collision, I understand you're bare. But a street incident would be covered by insurance presumably. (I would get classic, agreed-value coverage too, in which case replacement costs would be assured.) What risk is there in such an event (aside from deductible)?

Lastly, if you're in SoCal Pete (or anyone else), maybe we should hook up sometime to compare notes on things. Maybe form a local chapter..........????

Thanks for clarifying.

 

I personally know of a couple of Ultima's (and a stealth) that raced in Canada and Grand AM. They both had the fuel cell in a sealed compartment next to the driver instead of the passenger seat. If you are thinking of racing an Ultima, I wouldn't bother unless you want to make serious modifications to suspension/aero etc to make it competitive. The Stealth B6 is a way better starting point.

 

[Ron Earp]

This is a perfect example of a thread gone bad. We've got good information on the topics of costs and now chassis, but anyone looking at the topic wouldn't think to look for chassis info here.

I'm not mentioning it just because it is my thread, but instead because we need to stay on topic for maximal usefulness of the board in the future. There isn't much I can do about it now, I cannot change the topic name but I could close and lock it so that the discussion can continue elsewhere.

Ron

 

[Guest]

And the bonus of a good quality 40 is less depreciation. Someone mentioned above spending the same cost as a corvette. Come back in 10 years time and see which recoups the most money. Not saying it makes a safe investment but due to low numbers these cars hold their value. Anyone succeed with this point when discussing the purchase with the wife? Didn't think so but hey, you gotta try.

Malcolm