Building a car and wanna know the costs....

[Ron Earp]

Well,

I've been asked a lot about how much it costs to build a GT40. I've shared the info with plently of people and hopefully got them on the road to buyig a GT40. But, with the requests coming in 2-3 times per week I thought it best that I just post my info on the web here so that people can get the numbers themselves. It isn't a secret with respect to cash - everyone knows that if you are building a 40 a certain amount of money is involved so I don't feel like this is "personal" info.

I've kept a pretty good record of my costs since embarking on this GT40 project in 2001. So far, here is what I've accumlated, parts, tools, everything that I've purchased since starting the project. Basically I am now down to paint and body work, which is why I'm posting this. That way people can get an idea for how much it will cost them to put a car together. Still, it looks like I might come out at a reasonable value if I can get the car painted for a average or good price. Hope this helps some of those looking into GT40s.

To be fair you could deduct the tool costs, but on the other hand I didn't have them and needed them to start the build.

Please keep in mind my RF car was the second one in the country when exchange rates were different and the US packages were just getting put together. It does have pin drives, AC, leather, limited slip diff, etc. but does not have fuel injection, FI fuel system, or a MoTec computer as many of the folks have today.

Ron

Excel HTML Document with Price Detail

[ February 17, 2003: Message edited by: Ron Earp ]

 

Out of curiosity, and that is great info thanks...which kit did you get? I don't see a kit configuration that's $35k on the RF website.

 

[Ron Earp]

As I mentioned, this was two years ago, it was the second kit (both were purchased within 1 week of one another) and it is not exactly as they are offered now. RF was wanting to just get some cars into the states and Bob L and I were the first two to offer - without knowing much about the company. This took a big leap of faith! But RF came through and delivered as promised.

Basically the kit is the deluxe kit that includes everything, $42k with today's exchange rates and pricing. I hope this doesn't stir up a hornets nest of contraversy, but I get asked all the time - I have XXXXX dollars, can I get a GT40? I figure mine is an average build with parts the average guy would want. I don't have a exotic engine, kit, or any really special parts. RF makes a good kit and I think the car can be built out for even less than I have, that is for sure.

NASA are you looking to build or just buy? Either way, all the replica companies will build turnkey's or any stage you want - so you are not locked into just CAV for turnkey minuses.

Ron

[ February 17, 2003: Message edited by: Ron Earp ]

 

[Mark Worthington]

Good info, Ron. That's pretty close to what mine will cost by the time it gets to where yours is.

 

Good stuff Ron. I'm getting ready to do the motor, and your costs are in-line with what I figured. Only thing is I would hate to actually add up everything I have bought as that might be depressing. But I will sure have a lot of neat toys after it's all over!

 

Ron, it has turned out that I have three distinct options but they're all "in the works".

Was originally thinking turnkey-minus CAV but the more I looked at that beautiful car, the less I wanted to be driving it down the street and get rear-ended and have it sitting in the garage not being suitable for taking to the track and certainly not remotely legal for racing in the US. Haven't gotten any specs about their "race" version but tube frame = can be fixed, stainless monocoque = can't be fixed and to me racing means being able to lose the entire thing and not suffer any undue financial or emotional hardship...I'm not in a financial position to do that with $80k + worth of car

So I have an option along those lines which is in early research stage and then something else came up which I'm sort of waiting to hear on (I know...how cryptic) and CAV isn't going anywhere so they remain an option.

Got into it sure of what I wanted and now I'm deep in research to be sure what I want is what I want hehehehe. Some manufacturers have contacted me so are prime candidates due to their interest in seeing my project on the track but within a budget.

Your chart is great information and I appreciate you putting it together like that.

 

[Guest]

Hi Ron,

You are a braver man than me. I dread to think what I have spent overall on my car. I have a very large thick folder with all invoices in. I never let a calculator near it!

However one thought I would add is that I often bought standard equipement and found it latterly to be wanting, so upgraded it. These bits were in effect paid for twice. Moral is to buy the right bits first time around so you don't need to upgrade. You will save money in the long run. Brakes, dampers and wheels spring to mind. Engines tend to be a rolling program of upgrades what ever you do.

Also measure twice and cut once. This will reduce the number of mistakes you make. When at school (aged 15) I was making a book case to sit on top of another book case. I measured the width and built the bookcase. Looked great but only when I went to fit it that I realised I had held the 30 cm ruler back to front and measured 10 cm instead of 20 cm. In my innocence, this obvious mistake was not spotted.

Hope this helps someone.

Malcolm

 

[ChrisL]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> to me racing means being able to lose the entire thing and not suffer any undue financial or emotional hardship <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where do you get one of those no-cost self repairing race cars??? I want one!!!

 

[Ross Nicol]

Yep
I have been running a business for nearly 30 years and fancy myself at being able to swing a deal, but building a car like
a GT40 has been a mixture of success and failure in this regard. I bought a rolling chassis/ body kit from Roaring Forties 2-3 years ago and the money has been flowing out! since.I was intending to built it as a road/ race car until I realized it had to be one or the other.The following may give you some Idea.Upgrade AVO shocks to Koni, upgrade brakes to AP Racing/ Tilton pedal box, Replace all Urethane chassis bushes with spherical bearings, replace all rose joints with uprated 23000lb (22@ $100 ea),ZF gearbox,dry sump pump and fabricated tank, dry sump inc return for mods to allow starter to fit,aluminium fly wheel, h/d clutch, fabricated bellhousing, 8 throttlebody injection manifold,custom headers ceramic coated........... and it goes on. I also refuse to go anywhere near a calculator and mistakes have been costly too.Thanks for the advice Malcom I did measure more than twice but you can still mess up, I've done it. I do smile a little when I see the how much? posts.

Regards Ross

 

[Ron Earp]

Good point Ross! I should add my car is a road car, with occasional track "days" planned. It has good brakes, PBR twin pots with 13" rotors, etc. but it does not have a dry sump motor and uses standard AVO shocks. These are standard RF parts so I haven't upgraded these. Fine for road use and a few track days but it isn't going to cut it for a track car. Additionally, I'm using the Audi/Getrag tranny which saves a bunch of money upfront, but I might like to switch to a Porsche unit after I see Lynn's in action.

Ron

[ February 18, 2003: Message edited by: Ron Earp ]

 

Hehehe Chris, dem disposable race cars are in the form of salvage title Civics.

 

[Howard Jones]

Thats just about what I plan to spend. I guess if you already have the tools and a place to work you can say that this stuff is aready paid for but 50-60 grand is just about right. Of course you can double that if you want to, but I think 90K would be overkill let alone 100K +. This is based on damn near all the labor being done by the owner with the exception of paint and finish body prep. The real difference between 45K and lets say 60K is Engine HP and Gearbox selection.
I have not kept a running total but I have always figured my 40 would cost about the same as a new corvette, same year as completed GT40, hell thats a good deal. Everybody has a chevy!! Oh and you get to tell people, I did that!

 

[Robert Logan]

Ross et all,

I have allowed for an EXTRA AU$ 100,000 to build the RF race car over what our road cars cost to build. This is with the contacts that my company has in the race industry in Australia and the keen prices that I can get and the cost does not include any labour costs. The car will have everything that makes it go and stop like a true race car but it all costs real money.

I have done my sums with regards to all the components and I have had some frightening prices. The one that realy stickes out is the cost increase in engines with the increased RPM's and also HP.

6000 rpm AU$ 8000
6500 rpm AU$ 16000
7000 rpm AU$ 32000
7500 rpm AU$ 65000 (V8 supercars)

A doubling of cost for every 500 rev increase and an increase from 300hp to 600+ hp. Our engine will be in the middle somewhere.

I have also fitted a set of Brembo monoblock callipers to 14 1/2 " front and 13" rear rotors on our race car and the cost was almost AU$ 25,000.

I firmly believe that you get what you pay for. I also believe that our car is the easiest GT40 on the market to be adapted for the race track as I built it specifically for the race track and then modified it for the road.

There is a place in this world for all of the GT40's that are represented on this forum and it depends where you think the car will end up , road or track, tell which kit is best for you.

Please ask Hershal about his escapades yesterday and this will tell you how the RF realy goes with the RIGHT driver.

Best wishes,

Robert

 

[Jim Glickenhaus]

I doubt that is an original Lola roll bar. The one in my T-70 which is a later model than that one was a single hoop of rusty muffler pipe. The one in my P4 is minimal at best and the chassis tubes, through which flo water and oil, are pretty flimsey. The guys who drove those cars in the rain at SPA have bigger ones then I do. My MK-IV however is a truck. Andretti hit the wall at LeMans at 145 in a MK-IV and walked away, allbeit slowly.
Best
Jim

 

That's what I'm saying...this original LoLa has additional safety equipment required to meet current safety specs ADDED and yet the tube-frame kits do not seem to be available with the same modern safety equipment and are therefore not raceable.

As you know, Ford insisted on roll cages being added to all their cars and a driver age limit of 40 was enforced for 1967 after the Ken Miles crash.

Your Mk IV should have the Ford spec cage (whatever that entails).

quote..."Holman-Moody had taken over the running of GT1012, which had finished second at Daytona in 1966, and it was at this circuit that the tests were held. Peter Revson was in the driving seat when a suspected puncture caused the car to run wide and brush the outer wall. With a now totally flat tyre, the nose of the car lifted and the airflow somersaulted the car into a series of carwheels down the track. GT1012 was totally destroyed, but Revson was able to stagger away from the heavily protected driver's cockpit in which, a year earlier, he would certainly have been killed. The new roll cage had proven its worth."

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

NASA,
as you have seen you cannot buy a NEW complete GT40 TURN KEY for less than about $65,000.These are road cars and not race cars.It is impossible to compare a GT40 road car with a motorcycle engined RACE ONLY car is NOT an even proposition.
Why not buy a partial GT40 and modify your self? You may come close to your $40k target figure if you do that.Besides there are very few santioned races for a gt40 replica to compete in .
I would like to find more people with GTD'S that want to race in vintage races , as GTD is a manufacturer in its own right and is 20 years old as a company now and has built as many as 400 cars worldwide
.I would think this makes the car eligible in its own right not as a replica.
Any ideas or support??
Fran

 

Why is a Radical and a GTD different? They start as simple tube-frame chassis with suspension and a fiberglass shell.

The GT40 is more complex in that it has windows and doors and cladding etc...but it's not a different animal at all...GT40 was first and foremost a race car and was altered to be a (barely) street legal car. If I'm not mistaken, this is the appeal of the car to most of us. Unfortunately the US market has special needs as regards to putting the car in harms way on race tracks which limits the appeal of the current kits. Most of the rest of the world doesn't have this particular sort of restriction.

In this configuration it could be legal for SCCA Trans Am, SCCA GT1, NASA ES and NASA PS1 and OPEN TRACK CHALLENGE. I don't see that as particularly limiting as most production cars are eligible for one class only.

Here's an Ultima GTR:

And here's a GT40 tube frame:

The crucial difference is lack of a roll cage with appropriate support. Both cars have fuel storage problems and I'm still trying to figure out how an Ultima can be an SCCA and Grand Am legal race car given the dicey fuel storage...there must be a modification they do that might help the GT40 community.

GTD isn't going to come up with the support since they're out of business so hopefully one of the other enthusiastic manufacturers will. I believe one of them is on the right track and my rant is not against any manufacturer but a call to move these kits up one logical step so they have wider appeal and utility. A GTD with a cage and modern fuel storage and management is a safer road car too.

Pricing is an entirely different issue but remember that race cars have vastly fewer parts than "street cars" and given things like seats and belts and wheels and brakes have to be race spec, they are easily obtainable outside a basic kit so actually simplify what a "roller" is.

Convincing a sanctioning body that your modification to someone elses tube-frame chassis is NOT as easy as it sounds...and it's expensive. Certification from an engineering company is only part of the problem. The designer of the chassis is the person who is most able to safely modify it.

I believe (at least in the US) that several vintage groups now allow replicars in their series. All the more reason to broaden the appeal of the GT40 design to be a car with modern race equipment.

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

I agree whole heartidly as my car is fully hem jointed with nascar brakes and an SCCA spec tubing roll cage.Putting the fuel cell up front aka 911 is the way around the fuel issue.
If you look at my post I was listing completed cars not rollers.
I have a Van Diemen F2000 so I am aware of the GCR.
Replica racing in Vintage circles is not as simple as you may think.I know you can run these cars with modern classes as long as they meet the specs but for me I want to be on the track with cars of a simpilar type not modern cars although kicking their butts may be fun if I had 750 hp like the trans am cars do.
I listed GTD because there are a lot of folks already racing them and their help maybe useful.
I would like to see more manufacturers racing but whether they will be around in 20 years remains to be seen also.

[ February 19, 2003: Message edited by: Fran Hall ]

 

I was thinking about putting a 911 type cell in the front but how did you account for the crush space etc? I'd love to see pictures of that since it's sort of the most logical configuration. I am "pitching" configurations to NASA in order to not end up with a car that doesn't pass tech so am looking for good ideas.

We run in an endurance series where speed is not as important as reliability so a tube-frame GT40 running a reliably built 302 with 400hp would be more than competitive. Fuel is a huge issue since time in the pits = losing and we are also allowed to use R-compound street tires. If we ran OTC we'd actually run a class lower driving between the tracks and running on street tires so for our needs it has all sorts of appeal.

My premise is that the manufacturers adding the cage and fuel system to any existing kit suddenly widens their prospective market. Look at Factory Five and their NASA race series...they now cater to a group of track-only guys with their own spec series. So hopefully that helps with the 20 year thing.

My discussions with guys who race GTDs are interesting but they are allowed to run pretty much with 0 safety equpment beyond a 4-point harness and the roll hoop the car came with (imagine trying to use a 4-point harness in the US). So while it confirms that the platform can be a bunch of fun and stand up to racing...doesn't solve the issues you and I face in the US.

BTW I used to race a Van Diemen RF78

 

[Ian K]

Pete,

RF offers a SCCA approved cage as an option.
I'm sure Thunderbird and MDA can offer
similar cages for a GTD chassis. And, CAV is
supposedly working on a full race spec
version.

As far as fuel compartments go, I'm not
familiar enough with SCCA rules to say anything.

Ian