Camcoat

I had my exhaust headers ceramic coated by Camcoat last year and I have to say I was very dissapointed with the finish.
They were originally to be coated in white but Camcoat had problems with the adhesion process, so they contacted me and suggested Cerma-chrome would be a better choice.
When the pipes arrived I could see what they meant by 'having problems'. They had ground the white off and had left terrible grinding marks in the metal.
Several telephone conversations later and a few choice words only produced a price reduction but this is no compensation for a set of ruined pipes.
This has proved to be the worst £350.00 I have spent so far.
Anyone else had dealings with this company?
 
Hi Paul
I had my pipes cermakromed and they came back damaged with runs in the coating.
I sent them back to be 'made good' and they were returned in a better state - although the service was poor and their quality control seems to be somewhat lacking.
I know of other 40 owners who have had problems, I suspect they will post also.
Regards
Roy Snook
 
Paul,

I had my headers done in black (which was the lowest cost option and the one they recommended as being most heat effective). They said they would clean the hammer marks on the pipes up, which I accepted being very short of time last year in July, but in fact I think the pipes were only degreased not smoothed.

I was not too disappointed in the finish although the finish is starting to mottle and come away in some places now. (after 3000 miles).

In summary not a sparkling job but not a disaster either.
 
I have been useing CAMCOAT (the company) for several years now, after seeing a set of pipes that Ray Christopher had done in ceramic coating, which I believe was carried out in the US. Initially the quality of work was very good and the coating proved very durable and easy to maintain looking good. However, more recent work carried out by this company has not been at all acceptible, and I have had to return sets of pipes repeatedly to be recoated or repaired after damage at the factory. This all comes down to quality control at the factory, as I still believe the process is good, and I can say that I will not be too kean to go this route in the future. What we need is a competitor to force them to up the quality stakes or lose out to a better supplier.Is there any other supplier in the UK now doing this work?

[ April 17, 2003: Message edited by: F CATT ]
 
I chose CAMCOAT as at the time they were and I think still are, the only UK company capable of coating both internal and external surfaces. I chose black as it is the most effective but certainly not the prettiest. They completed a so-so job and to date the material has stayed on the pipes but is showing signs of discolouration in the high heat areas near to the ports.
Other ceramic coating solutions are available in the UK but rather than the water based Camcoat solution, a plasma spray application to external-only surfaces is applied and is very much more expensive. One company, based by Williams GP at Didcot comes to mind.
 
Chris,

The company you mention is, or was, Zircotec. I think they have at some time merged or have been bought out by another company.
I spoke to a rep from Zircotec at the Autosport show in 2002 but didn't choose them at the time as they were quite expensive. They wanted £550 just to coat the outside of the pipes.
 
Chris,

I had the same black treatment on my pipes I followed their advice but why is black best? I thought the idea was to retain heat in the pipes and keep the engine bay cool. Recalling my physics, highly polished surfaces (or white) are normally better for not radiating heat.
 
Dave,
You have to think in therms of physics as well for maybe the answer to this problem.... from what I have read, black would make an excellent colour, especially matt black. It does not have good light reflecting properties and disperses shadows easier, this would help camoflage any 'errors' as described in previous posts would not be as obvious to the casual eye.

Just a thought

Brett
 
To be precise, the colour you paint your pipes is irrelevant in terms of heat transfer. The heat is transferred to the pipes by the flow of gasses through the exhaust. It is not a radiant heat flow issue. The transfer of heat from the pipes to the engine compartment is partially radiant and partially convection. Convection is dominant when the car is moving and air is flowing through the compartment. When the car is at rest, the radiant heat transfer becomes more important. In this case the emmisivity of the radiating surface is the important parameter. You can check tables for different coefficients of emmissivity, and you will find that the surface finish is more important than the colour. Matt being more efficient than gloss. This is the same type of situation as water radiators in a home's central heating system. Heat is transferred to the radiator by flow of water and heat is passed to surroundings by radiation and convection.
 
So to complete my thought, Dave I believe you are correct, that you can minimize radiant heat transfer to the engine compartment by polishing your pipes. I'm not sure how big an effect it would be since it depends on the ratio between convection and radiation.

I think the most important thing is to have a reflective/thermally insulating sheet directly above the pipes to minimize thermal damage to the fiberglass.
 
Trevor,

I see you're right, convection is the internal mechanism and convection plus radiation externally, and I agree when moving convection is the major factor.

The biggest difference of all is naturally the ceramic coating (inside and out) which slows conduction of heat through the pipe by extablishing a steeper temperature gradient. However since both convection and radiation are lower with a light shiny surface rather than a dark matt surface I still question why Camcoat said matt black was best. Best for who? Camcoats or the customer? It must be easier to do everything in black as Brett said it hides imperfections.

I suppose the major point is the ceramic coating so the critical paramter for outside dressing is personal taste. I wish I had done mine chromed now!
 
If you don't mind heavy grinding marks I'll do you a swap!!!
grin.gif
 
Thanks Paul, you're too generous
grin.gif
.

I'll probably spray mine with Sperex silver high temperature paint when I strip the engine next time. I have a spare pipe (made incorrectly) to try out.

David
 
Let me now how you get on Dave.

I would still prefer my pipes to be white but only for asthetic reasons, they would then look better against the black of the engine bay.
I may spray over the Cerma-chrome but don't know effectively the white will 'stick' to it. There are high temp paints available in spray cans up to 700 degrees F.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trevor J:
To be precise, the colour you paint your pipes is irrelevant in terms of heat transfer. The heat is transferred to the pipes by the flow of gasses through the exhaust. It is not a radiant heat flow issue. The transfer of heat from the pipes to the engine compartment is partially radiant and partially convection. Convection is dominant when the car is moving and air is flowing through the compartment. When the car is at rest, the radiant heat transfer becomes more important. In this case the emmisivity of the radiating surface is the important parameter. You can check tables for different coefficients of emmissivity, and you will find that the surface finish is more important than the colour. Matt being more efficient than gloss. This is the same type of situation as water radiators in a home's central heating system. Heat is transferred to the radiator by flow of water and heat is passed to surroundings by radiation and convection.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice tech, Trevor...someone's had some heat transfer edumacation.
smile.gif
Good post!
 

Peter Delaney

GT40s Supporter
For ceramic coating, you might want to look at Jet-Hot :
www.jet-hot.com

Their main web page has lots of info, but no links to international sites/distributors. I found a local distributor on
www.jet-hot.com.au

& have had a lot of suspension parts done by them in the "High Lustre" silver finish. I was very happy with the results & even more so when I gave them a quick run over with metal polish - almost equal to the best polished alloy finish. They are happy to remove paint, surface rust, etc., but the old rule still applies : garbage in / garbage out. I found that all you need to do is linish the steel with a "flapper-wheel" / 180 grade paper to get a fine result.

A friend had his headers done in this & ran them up to red-hot on the dyno - no discolouration was evident when it all cooled down.

It should be worth a try to see if someone in the UK has picked up the franchise.

Kind Regards,

Peter D.

smile.gif
 
Peter is spot on about Jet-Hot. I have put on a bundle of snakes and these have been Jet-Hot coated in matt black. The finish is great and it is interesting how quickly they cool compared with say the rocker covers. It also sounds like a GT40 should. Regards
 
My choice of black ceramic coating for both inside and outside of the headers was based on the knowledge that some of the BTCC teams went for this and found it positively reduced under bonnet heat transfer.
The other way I have greatly reduced the temperature was to produce the silencer cans in carbon fibre. After track usage their external temperature is around only 70 degrees.
An additional benefit is that the silencing effect of carbon fibre, which is an acousticly dead material, greatly improves the silencers efficiency without compromising on performance.
 
Another alternative if you only are concerned for an external finish, is a company called 'metalblast' in Poole dorset UK , They spray the pipes with Aluminium weld. It is very cheap , around £50-£80 and can be sprayed over or left. The finish is not smooth but looks fine. Several owners have used this company.I can't recall the number but should be in a directory
 
Chris
Any chance you can elaborate on the "Silencer cans", maybe some pics as well, if possible.
Des
 
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